One of the Best Political Rants I've Read in a Long Time

[Kuya]

Ugh, thanks.

And by the way, ANWR and OCS might not lead to any significant decrease in gas prices, and these decreases won't be appreciable till 2018.

[Nystul]

Ah, the voice of the people! First off... Iraq. We as civilians should not be given the access we are to the military and their operations. They will be done when they say they are, and that's that. Since when did armchair generals become the way to make poilcy? I'd rather have the guy in charge over there telling me when he thinks they've done their job and can come home versus the talking heads over here saying that troops should come home because we're mad!

Lol man, I definitely consider myself politically conservative but...this is some stupid shit. Obviously there is some degree of "secrecy" required for military operations but only to preserve safety. Providing some sort of carte blanch freedom where they can just do whatever they want for as long as they want is insane. They do need to be answerable.

Also, getting a marriage license requires photo ID and birth certificate. I don't think thats outlandish.

[Bingbong]

The best part about statistics is that they can be swung any way you need them to... for instance:

According to the WHO (That's the World Health Organization) By Region, we in the United States enjoy the highest life expectancy at 75 years, we also have the 2nd lowest infant mortality rate at 18 deaths per 1000 live births (Europe has a 14/1000 ratio) and the 2nd lowest Adult Mortality rate (death between the age of 15-60) at 133 per 1000 population, the Western Pacific region was the lowest at 118/1000.

Basically, our health system isn't as bad as Beckwin would like to think it is.
http://www.who.int/whosis/whostat/2008/en/index.html


So your belief is held that someone outside the active military, not involved with the war, away from the battlefield, who had the ability to write a book is more credible than the folks who were trained for their job, and been in the military for decades. I don't follow your logic there.

There are a multitude of ways to produce energy outside of foreign oil already. Alternative fuels, wind power, solar power, geothermal, cars running on hydrogen, propane, cooking oils etc etc etc... they all exist, today, and can be used by anyone.
They aren't cost-effective or efficient enough to use by everybody though. Making it harder on big oil to provide a fuel we all demand isn't going to help the energy problem at all. There are plenty of alternatives, you want to make oil go away, those alternatives have to be cheaper, and that's not something I want the government taking care of.

Naive to think that a government run health care system won't turn into surcharges based on lifestyles? That's not an overly large step here. You smoke... well, you pay a .5% surcharge. Your BMI labels you as obese, you pay a surcharge. They do it already. Ride a motorcycle without a helmet, you get your ticket plus a surcharge that goes to a head and neck injury fund.

[Bingbong]

Also, getting a marriage license requires photo ID and birth certificate. I don't think thats outlandish.

If your photo ID doesn't have your current registered address, you need to supply utility bills or other proof of residence. Most states also require proof of residency of one or the other party within that state.
Signatures from a certified clergy or justice of the peace that performed said ceremony, $35-50 depending on state filed, and a week processing time. And it's not official till notarized.

[Nystul]

So your belief is held that someone outside the active military, not involved with the war, away from the battlefield, who had the ability to write a book is more credible than the folks who were trained for their job, and been in the military for decades. I don't follow your logic there.

When you go to the doctor, do you follow what they say explicitly? Or do you weigh their diagnosis and take it into consideration? I would hope that you think for yourself. Obviously a doctor is trained and typically knows what they are doing but I don't think you would go to a doctor that simply looks at your chart, looks at you, and then knocks you out to start a procedure without talking to you about it first.

You make it sound like the military should be able to do whatever it wants, when it wants, and that it has no accountability to the public which funds it entirely. Our military works for us, and as such they should be required to be accountable for their actions and should keep the population updated and informed on what they are doing. I don't need to know specific troop movements, but they better be providing some detailed progress reports.

[Plow]

lets all just hope for change...

hope for change...

I'll take actions over hoping.

Then again, both are toolbags that don't seem to have ways to fix the actual problems.
Oil, illegal immigration, taxes, war.

Drill it up in Anwr silly tree hugging hippies. Illegal Immigration, screw amnesty... make a huge ass wall and say if you can help the US lets make it easier for you to come in legally. Taxes... screw you welfare and every other lets make communism sound like democracy, big ass government grants so people can drill for ice in Alaska, and every other stupid pork barrel garbage thing that we as tax payers pay. That includes socialized health care. Freddie Mac? Guess what, you shouldn't have loaned money to Bob the Builder who can't afford tuna fish let alone a big ass house. Oh and Bob... Guess what, you shouldn't have bought it knowing this. War... either A: Put 100% into it and blow the ever living fuck out of everything or B: Pull out everyone at once.

Then again, I'm not running for politics nor ever will. My ideas are apparently too stupid.

I'm sorry but I had to lol right there.

[Vinen]

It's funny with how smart Beckwin thinks he is, that he actually fell for Obama's propaganda. Beckwin seriously doesn't understand that Obama is just the same old politician we've had for the last 60 years or so, who will say anything to get elected but when push comes to shove won't actually follow through on it.

I'm convinced Obama's following is caused by the gravitational pull of his over-inflated ego.

[Enkidu]

-long winded inane diatribe-

You kind of missed the point... My point is that there's no reason to give Obama the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure you love what "he stands for" and all of the "change" he's slinging around. The problem, which you don't seem to see, is that this is all crafted by his campaign in an attempt to make him President. He's not worried about the endgame, he's worried about getting there. Who is worried about the endgame in a Presidential election? Why the major parties of course!

To bring the point home, since you seem to have trouble staying on subject, can you name a recent President that kept their campaign promises? Reagan? Nope. Bush Sr.? lolnonewtaxes. Clinton? Not even close. Bush Jr.? Hahaha. And the reason? Because their goal is to get to the White House, once that's accomplished they fall back on their party.

I think it's funny that my point was that nobody should trust Obama (or McCain), because there's simply no reason to trust a major party nominee, and you shoot back with all of his campaign promises as a rebuttal... Are you that fucking stupid, seriously? If you want a more realistic vision of what Obama will be as President, just look at the Democratic party. Not what the Democratic party says they are, but what they actually do, which is basically nothing. And I think that's a pretty safe assumption, seeing as how Obama's very short voting record is nearly 100% partisan.

But I guess I shouldn't judge a candidate by voting history or stuff like that. I should judge them by what they say in front of TV cameras. Obama is totally bipartisan and is going to bring Independents, Republicans, and Democrats together in a pool of happiness and love. Yep, I remember that one. Wasn't that Bush Jr. in 2000? Hmm... Nevermind, it's totally sincere this time.

[Beckwin]

According to a 2000 study of the World Health Organization, publicly funded systems of industrial nations spend less on health care, both as a percentage of their GDP and per capita, and enjoy superior population-based health care outcomes.

don't worry bingbong, the WHO agrees with the general premise as well.

and the books I was referring to are the tell-alls about how we were all lied to in getting into the war in Iraq. It's the military's job to fight wars, not decide who we fight and for how long- that's the job of Congress. Knowing how to fight a war doesn't make you an expert on legality, cultural/regional impact, ethics, etc. It's also worth noting that several high ranking officers have spoken out against how the war has been handled.

I find it kind of funny that you're against big government control except when it comes to the military, in which case you're willing to unquestioningly bend over because there's a ton of flags being waved around.

There is absolutely nothing about government that should be closed to criticism/critical inquiry.... unless you hate democracy.

[BarthelloSylph]

Everyone has a complaint. Few have an answer.

[Beckwin]

You kind of missed the point... My point is that there's no reason to give Obama the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure you love what "he stands for" and all of the "change" he's slinging around. The problem, which you don't seem to see, is that this is all crafted by his campaign in an attempt to make him President. He's not worried about the endgame, he's worried about getting there. Who is worried about the endgame in a Presidential election? Why the major parties of course!

To bring the point home, since you seem to have trouble staying on subject, can you name a recent President that kept their campaign promises? Reagan? Nope. Bush Sr.? lolnonewtaxes. Clinton? Not even close. Bush Jr.? Hahaha. And the reason? Because their goal is to get to the White House, once that's accomplished they fall back on their party.

I think it's funny that my point was that nobody should trust Obama (or McCain), because there's simply no reason to trust a major party nominee, and you shoot back with all of his campaign promises as a rebuttal... Are you that fucking stupid, seriously? If you want a more realistic vision of what Obama will be as President, just look at the Democratic party. Not what the Democratic party says they are, but what they actually do, which is basically nothing. And I think that's a pretty safe assumption, seeing as how Obama's very short voting record is nearly 100% partisan.

But I guess I shouldn't judge a candidate by voting history or stuff like that. I should judge them by what they say in front of TV cameras. Obama is totally bipartisan and is going to bring Independents, Republicans, and Democrats together in a pool of happiness and love. Yep, I remember that one. Wasn't that Bush Jr. in 2000? Hmm... Nevermind, it's totally sincere this time.

Obama has a Senate and Illinois voting history I generally approve of. And newsflash, but when you vote for someone, you are giving them the benefit of the doubt by default- no candidate for any position has lived out the next 2/4 years in advance, and on top of that in the case of presidents, you at best have one term to go off of in judging their ability and action at the job.

For fun, stuff Obama has done that I like:

Illinois
-Obama gained bipartisan support for legislation reforming ethics and health care laws.
-sponsored a law increasing tax credits for low-income workers, negotiated welfare reform, and promoted increased subsidies for childcare.
-as co-chairman of the bipartisan Joint Committee on Administrative Rules, Obama supported Republican Governor Ryan's payday loan regulations and predatory mortgage lending regulations aimed at averting home foreclosures
-sponsored and led unanimous, bipartisan passage of legislation to monitor racial profiling by requiring police to record the race of drivers they detained and legislation making Illinois the first state to mandate videotaping of homicide interrogations.

US Senate
-"Lugar–Obama" expanded the Nunn–Lugar cooperative threat reduction concept to conventional weapons, including shoulder-fired missiles and anti-personnel mines.
-The "Coburn–Obama Transparency Act" authorized the establishment of www.USAspending.gov, a web search engine launched in December 2007 and run by the Office of Management and Budget.
-Obama sponsored legislation requiring plant owners to notify state and local authorities of radioactive leaks.
-Obama worked with Democrat Russ Feingold of Wisconsin to eliminate gifts of travel on corporate jets by lobbyists to members of Congress and require disclosure of bundled campaign contributions under the "Honest Leadership and Open Government Act," which was signed into law in September 2007.
-He introduced S. 453, a bill to criminalize deceptive practices in federal elections, including fraudulent flyers and automated phone calls, as witnessed in the 2006 midterm elections.
-Obama also introduced the "Iraq War De-Escalation Act of 2007," a bill to cap troop levels in Iraq, begin phased redeployment, and remove all combat brigades from Iraq before April 2008.

I also appreciate is longtime opposition to the Iraq War and what he's done withing the DNC and his campaign about curtailing lobbies' influence.

Those are all real things that he's done. I feel comfortable in supporting someone who has done those things. Is that so hard to believe? For all your talk about benefit of the doubt, you have to admit you give it just the same to 3rd party candidates, who haven't done a thing in many cases.

[Ksandra]

The best part about statistics is that they can be swung any way you need them to... for instance:

According to the WHO (That's the World Health Organization) By Region, we in the United States enjoy the highest life expectancy at 75 years, we also have the 2nd lowest infant mortality rate at 18 deaths per 1000 live births (Europe has a 14/1000 ratio) and the 2nd lowest Adult Mortality rate (death between the age of 15-60) at 133 per 1000 population, the Western Pacific region was the lowest at 118/1000.

wut?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ife_expectancy

We're 29 on that list. And before you say lolwiki, reason I posted this was because I've heard time and time again how Japanese people live almost 10 years longer than we do. This was a fast link I'll easily find more as it's even been on the news how their life expectancy is in the 80s, and you just said we're the highest at 75.....



On infant mortality rate...From Cia Website:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../2091rank.html

Hardly 2nd lowest.

(notice how universal health care contries are above us on both of these stats)


Reality is we're supposed to be #1 in the world, and are health care sucks compared to other 1st world countries.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Ugh, thanks.

And by the way, ANWR and OCS might not lead to any significant decrease in gas prices, and these decreases won't be appreciable till 2018.

How long are people going to keep saying that? If we had begun drilling the first time someone said that I wonder what prices would be. And why wouldn't prices drop if we started drilling? The Dems party line is that speculators are driving the price up, so when they know there will more oil in the future, won't they then drive the prices down lol? Also, why wouldn't the middle east countries start to drop their prices? They will want to sell as much as they can to us before we get our own right?

There was also an article written by someone related to drilling off the west coast. He claimed it wouldn't take 10 years for that oil to reach the market, instead he claimed it would take 1-2 years because the infrastructure/research/etc is all already there. (No link, I don't bookmark everything I read, sorry.)

more importantly, where the hell is your more-oil-than-ME source?

Go to Hannity's website and you'll find it there. My guess is it was the AP.

[Bingbong]

When you go to the doctor, do you follow what they say explicitly? Or do you weigh their diagnosis and take it into consideration? I would hope that you think for yourself. Obviously a doctor is trained and typically knows what they are doing but I don't think you would go to a doctor that simply looks at your chart, looks at you, and then knocks you out to start a procedure without talking to you about it first.

You make it sound like the military should be able to do whatever it wants, when it wants, and that it has no accountability to the public which funds it entirely. Our military works for us, and as such they should be required to be accountable for their actions and should keep the population updated and informed on what they are doing. I don't need to know specific troop movements, but they better be providing some detailed progress reports.

If the Doctor says, do this or your heart will explode, then yes, I do what he asks/tells me to do. That only seems logical to me. If he tells me I have condito-flexo-flippa-aylisis, I might ask him what it is, and try and read up on it, but if I found that that condition existed, yes, I would do what he asked me to, again, that only follows logic to me.

And no, I never stated they should have carte blanche and lack of accountability, but until General Patreaus comes out with a report entitled: "How I fucked up in Iraq" I would tend to trust in what he's doing to be the right thing. And no, the military does not not work for us. Not any more than the Postal service, or the guys fixing the roads. They are a branch of government that provides a service to it's civilians. In the military's case, protection. They are funded by tax dollars yes, but to say they work for us is implying a employee/employer relationship and the disclosure that comes with that, and to be honest, that sort of disclosure should not exist with our military.

[zoobernut]

The best part about statistics is that they can be swung any way you need them to... for instance:

According to the WHO (That's the World Health Organization) By Region, we in the United States enjoy the highest life expectancy at 75 years, we also have the 2nd lowest infant mortality rate at 18 deaths per 1000 live births (Europe has a 14/1000 ratio) and the 2nd lowest Adult Mortality rate (death between the age of 15-60) at 133 per 1000 population, the Western Pacific region was the lowest at 118/1000.

Basically, our health system isn't as bad as Beckwin would like to think it is.
http://www.who.int/whosis/whostat/2008/en/index.html


So your belief is held that someone outside the active military, not involved with the war, away from the battlefield, who had the ability to write a book is more credible than the folks who were trained for their job, and been in the military for decades. I don't follow your logic there.

There are a multitude of ways to produce energy outside of foreign oil already. Alternative fuels, wind power, solar power, geothermal, cars running on hydrogen, propane, cooking oils etc etc etc... they all exist, today, and can be used by anyone.
They aren't cost-effective or efficient enough to use by everybody though. Making it harder on big oil to provide a fuel we all demand isn't going to help the energy problem at all. There are plenty of alternatives, you want to make oil go away, those alternatives have to be cheaper, and that's not something I want the government taking care of.

Naive to think that a government run health care system won't turn into surcharges based on lifestyles? That's not an overly large step here. You smoke... well, you pay a .5% surcharge. Your BMI labels you as obese, you pay a surcharge. They do it already. Ride a motorcycle without a helmet, you get your ticket plus a surcharge that goes to a head and neck injury fund.

What is with the new influx of idiots since the server change?

Seriously the U.S. has gotten very lucky when it comes to healthcare however whether or not statistically we look the best on paper we are approaching it from the wrong direction. The majority of our medicine and mentality goes into fixing problems once they occur this country would be doing even better if doctors and people spent more energy on preventative health care.

As for the whole "armchair general" thing that was seriously the most retarded thing I have ever read. There is a huge difference between people being mad and saying we should not be in a war in the first place with people telling the military how to do their job once they are already there.

It is very important for the general public to understand why we are in a war and be able to say whether or not they agree for the reason behind being in a war. If Bush declared war on kittens would you just sit back and agree with it because he is the Commander in Chief and he must know better than you that kittens are evil and must be destroyed? Again if you agree that kittens should be destroyed then by all means sit back and let the military decide how to go about doing it. But you should not let them go to war in the first place if the reason behind it is faulty.

[Beckwin]

Go to Hannity's website

Get. The. Fuck. Out.

[Kuya]

How long are people going to keep saying that? If we had begun drilling the first time someone said that I wonder what prices would be. And why wouldn't prices drop if we started drilling? The Dems party line is that speculators are driving the price up, so when they know there will more oil in the future, won't they then drive the prices down lol? Also, why wouldn't the middle east countries start to drop their prices? They will want to sell as much as they can to us before we get our own right?

There was also an article written by someone related to drilling off the west coast. He claimed it wouldn't take 10 years for that oil to reach the market, instead he claimed it would take 1-2 years because the infrastructure/research/etc is all already there. (No link, I don't bookmark everything I read, sorry.)

http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/aeo/otheranalysis/ongr.html

The projections in the OCS access case indicate that access to the Pacific, Atlantic, and eastern Gulf regions would not have a significant impact on domestic crude oil and natural gas production or prices before 2030. Leasing would begin no sooner than 2012, and production would not be expected to start before 2017. Total domestic production of crude oil from 2012 through 2030 in the OCS access case is projected to be 1.6 percent higher than in the reference case, and 3 percent higher in 2030 alone, at 5.6 million barrels per day. For the lower 48 OCS, annual crude oil production in 2030 is projected to be 7 percent higher—2.4 million barrels per day in the OCS access case compared with 2.2 million barrels per day in the reference case (Figure 20). Because oil prices are determined on the international market, however, any impact on average wellhead prices is expected to be insignificant.

With respect to the world oil price impact, projected ANWR oil production constitutes between 0.4 and 1.2 percent of total world oil consumption in 2030, based on the low and high resource cases, respectively.1 Consequently, ANWR oil production is not projected to have a large impact on world oil prices. Relative to the AEO2008 reference case, ANWR oil production is projected to have its largest oil price reduction impacts as follows: a reduction in low-sulfur, light (LSL) crude oil2 prices of $0.41 per barrel (2006 dollars) in 2026 in the low oil resource case, $0.75 per barrel in 2025 in the mean oil resource case, and $1.44 per barrel in 2027 in the high oil resource case. Assuming that world oil markets continue to work as they do today, the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) could neutralize any potential price impact of ANWR oil production by reducing its oil exports by an equal amount.

Not that i'm saying we shouldn't drill, just that you shouldn't hold your breathe.

[Beckwin]

I kinda hope by 2030 we have some alternative options, or at least a massive proliferation of super-efficient hybrids combined with public transportation development (rails, people, things on rails).

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Get. The. Fuck. Out.

Hannity isn't the source, just the messenger. Just because I first heard it from him, doesn't make it any less credible. Now if you find the source and call BS, that's different.

[Beckwin]

kuya has posted a source refuting what you said, so basically the burden is on you to back it up rather than condemning someone with a trip to dig around in Sean Hannity's internet cesspool.