WoTLK Beta

[Meph]

I'm pissed as shit at how they nerfed Elemental.=

Wrath of Air could be so much better and Totem of Wrath just looks like a crappy Wrath of Air with 3% Crit on it. No % in damage and it lost its hit % which was what kind of made it appealing at least for me when it gives you the option of getting less hit on your gear meaning more damage overall.

I'm hoping Totem of Wrath gets changed to a flat 10% spell damage increase with some crit, and that they throw some % hit onto WoA.

this is about all theyll get

Flametongue Totem
Rank 5 	LVL 67 	
Summons a Flametongue Totem with 5 health at the feet of the caster. Party members within 30 yards of the totem have their spell damage and healing increased by up to 73. Lasts 2 min.
11% of base mana, Instant cast

while speaking of shamans. Im extremely pumped up to see how we'll fare against rogues and hunters in WotLK with Maelstrom Weapon and the elemental tree being used instead of resto. (I dont compare myself with casters when it comes to DPS, only Total Damage) as it is now Im pretty much up to par with the rogues in our guild running MH/earlyBT, but I have a feeling the AEP of my gear is slightly higher then theirs. also I read we're getting a new wind shock that will lower threat, which is even more pure win.
that and no more picking WF to boost everyone else or GoA to boost myself aswell. Agi getting merged with str is a blessing...WF+(GoA+SoE) is gonna be fucking CRAZY! *passes out*

[Gulkeeva]

So like I was grouped with a Lv80 unholy DK... they defiantly going to get nerfed.. he was almost sustaining 3000DP... upwards to 4000's ;/

[fantasticdan]

The whole buff/debuff homogenization thing has essentially removed affliction utility entirely in a 25 man. Malediction CoE is WORSE than the moonkin or DK debuff it doesn't stack with, shadows embrace has been changed to a self-only buff to replace shadow weaving, and the felhunter int/spr buff has been nerfed into a static number, that doesn't stack with, and is weaker than AI/DS. I will be really disappointed if it ends up just a plain dps spec...

[Rivero]

this is about all theyll get

Flametongue Totem
Rank 5 	LVL 67 	
Summons a Flametongue Totem with 5 health at the feet of the caster. Party members within 30 yards of the totem have their spell damage and healing increased by up to 73. Lasts 2 min.
11% of base mana, Instant cast

while speaking of shamans. Im extremely pumped up to see how we'll fare against rogues and hunters in WotLK with Maelstrom Weapon and the elemental tree being used instead of resto. (I dont compare myself with casters when it comes to DPS, only Total Damage) as it is now Im pretty much up to par with the rogues in our guild running MH/earlyBT, but I have a feeling the AEP of my gear is slightly higher then theirs. also I read we're getting a new wind shock that will lower threat, which is even more pure win.
that and no more picking WF to boost everyone else or GoA to boost myself aswell. Agi getting merged with str is a blessing...WF+(GoA+SoE) is gonna be fucking CRAZY! *passes out*

5% Haste is just absolute shit. Even Windfury is half-decent after its "nerf". : /

[GRT]

5% is not that bad, considering it effects every caster, dps or healer, and you only need 1 shaman to do it for the whole raid (unless it gets too spread out?)

[Dezzimal]

So like I was grouped with a Lv80 unholy DK... they defiantly going to get nerfed.. he was almost sustaining 3000DP... upwards to 4000's ;/

AoEing, maybe.

[Krandor]

i'm gonna assume you never been in sunwell instead of brain dead when raid leader explain fights to you since by mentioning "bad tank" you obviously have no idea what twins look like

sunwell geared lock can be in the same group with 3 other locks and a spriest and pull 2600+ dps on brut without destro pot

sunwell geared glaive rogue needs ret pally, arms war and enh shaman, with another rogue in it which is the usual melee group, to pull 2700 chain drums and chain haste pot

btw, there's not one 25 man boss in TBC i can't do without having a single rogue in the raid, the only time a raid can be held up when there's no rogue on is the trash before kalecgos, and that's just sad

The limit of my TBC experience is Hyjal/BT, so no, I haven't seen twins. Are you implying 2700 dps on twins only, or...? I've seen rogues and hunters both hit up to 3k dps, with a few very good warglaive rogues going up to 4k dps on the tanky/spanky fights

[Eaglestrike]

AoEing, maybe.

Which wouldn't be too far-fetched. Our seeding warlocks sustain 5k dps in Hyjal seeding including the boss fights which would lower their average. Stats seem to roughly double in WotLK so 3k-4k dps would be like 1500-2k dps which in a semi-aoe situation isn't completely unbalanced.

However if it wasn't with lots of AOEing...it's OP.

[GRT]

The limit of my TBC experience is Hyjal/BT, so no, I haven't seen twins. Are you implying 2700 dps on twins only, or...? I've seen rogues and hunters both hit up to 3k dps, with a few very good warglaive rogues going up to 4k dps on the tanky/spanky fights

as in with hyjal bosses with necro haste buff? 3 healer teron? akama? rogue with nagrand buff? whatever else gimmick setup/buffed bosses you can pull?

the day after our glaive rogue got muru trinket and kj cloak (all in one run, lucky bastard) we put him in a caster group with a boomkin, a hunter and 2 locks on teron, and he did a 2300ish dps while our locks were in the mid 2800s (hunter got ghosted)

when you talk about dps, please don't be a complete nub and pull big numbers off wws, no top guilds take real pride in those, instead look at the ones with balanced raid setup and normal raid buffs

oh ya, before you start lying about how that 4k dps was on some normal ssc boss fight, go take a look at a few spreadsheet for tanks and realize how it'd be damn near impossible to hold off 2500 tps from a rogue for longer than a minute

[Krandor]

So a rogue with 0 group buffs didn't do an extreme amount of dps and suddenly they're weak?

Or are you just going to pull the "you're not as progressed as me so you're an idiot" card for this entire discussion?

Regardless, let's just drop the argument, it will obviously go nowhere.

[GRT]

you are not as progressed as me so you are an idiot

and you can't read beyond "you are an idiot" and see the point of my posts

let me clearify, idiot, i'm not satisfied with rogues not because they can't do high dps, but because i have to set up the entire raid around him for him to do that, and since he has no other utility than dps, most of the time it's just not worth the trouble in TBC, especially since the no.2 ranked hunters or locks are often less than 50 dps behind him with no need for special attention/buffs

[Krandor]

Rogues are getting utility, and they're going to rebalance the game in Lich king, so what are you bitching about?

Everything will always be imbalanced towards the end of each expansions lifecycle. Case in point that if you aren't a Resto Shaman or a Priest you're adversely affecting your raid.

[GRT]

i'm been bitching cuz you said they were great in tbc

they weren't, not in pve


at least other classes had their "the raid can't go tonight if i'm absent" moment before sunwell, rogues never did, and the only reason you see rogues in raid were cuz there were just so damn many of them

[Ishido]

rogues need pvp nerfs and pve buffs, i don't know why it's not happening, seems blizz devs all live in soviet russia

It's not happening because rogues have barely had any changes so far in beta, they still have yet to undergo the "significant class review" that every class goes through at some point.

As much as I agree, it's retarded to argue about current class balance in BC endgame.

[Krandor]

From the content I've seen they're perfectly fine in PvE, whether you want to argue that this is because of people being scrubs or because the game magically changes once you start getting Sunwell epics, go for it. Whenever I'm on my hunter, Boss dps numbers usually come out with the 2 rogues and enhance shaman in the party along with me holding the top 4 dps spots (Feral druid in the last slot obviously lagging behind), so it seems perfectly fine to me.

Also, rogues are getting their first big workover right now/over the course of this week, go look on mmo champion.

[GRT]

it does magically change once you are tier6 4set, which allows brain dead locks to spam 1 button and be on top of the chart and the smarter hunters to beat rogues if they get the same amount of buffs

i don't know about you, but our hunters constantly bitch at officers/RL for not getting the same amount of buff as our rogues, but other than a few tank and spank they do just as well as the rogues if i jsut toss them a feral druid and sometimes a shaman

[Krandor]

Ok you win that one, none of the groups I raid with have very many people in 4 piece tier 6.

[GRT]

it's really not entirely about the dps, most TBC bosses, especially the ones pre-sunwell, were highly melee unfriendly, and if you talk to your RL and whoever manages healers, they'll tell you how much easier their lives are if they can substitute those rogues with good ranged dps

after the locks and hunters catch up in gear, it just doesn't make much sense to raid with rogues any more (cept if your tanks are poorly geared and you need stuns for muru)

again, much of what a class's raid viability depends on the boss mechanics, so those beta class changes really don't help a whole lot concerning how a class will do in raids until bosses are tested

[Boyiee]

So I haven't played wow in a month or 2, so I don't know much about wotlk so far...

How are hunters, rogues, and locks so far? are they still on top? Spriests any better then they were?

[Ramor]

So I haven't played wow in a month or 2, so I don't know much about wotlk so far...

How are hunters, rogues, and locks so far? are they still on top? Spriests any better then they were?

last pageand a half are all about rogue/shaman, hunters i'm hearing good things about (although one talent is bugged atm), dunno about locks/spriests