PLD questions

[eva00r]

OK i'm a noob PLD75, I have some decent endgame experience as PLD but I still wanna learn more about this job.

Questions
1) Shield Skill merit, do you really need this endgame ?
2) Gears swapping (that makes your model reloaded), do you do this ? - Assuming your mages don't play on PC and do not have access to BlinkMeNot plugin
3) HP max and MP max, how much is enough on average to keep you alive from 1 shotting ? - I'm a Hume PLD
4) Joytoy or Maha+1 when you're tanking seriously with /NIN ?
5) March x 2 or March+Ballad ? - I have haste gears up to 22% recast reduction from haste/fastcast but I don't have much +Enmity gears.
6) Does defense value matter at all with /NIN ? - I mean like 370 and 400ish def.

Please answer base on the fact that I don't have any access to fancy pieces. (shadow mantle/d.ring/odin body/hydra haubert ... etc)
There are a lot of questions so I decided to make a topic rather than asking in random question thread. Thank you for your answers.

[Apelila]

1) Shield Skill merit, do you really need this endgame ?

Are you going to level anything else that your going to put many merits into?
Yes: No
No: Yes

Shield merits won't break or make you.

2) Gears swapping (that makes your model reloaded), do you do this ? - Assuming your mages don't play on PC and do not have access to BlinkMeNot plugin

Uh......thats complicated. Are your healer's functionally retarded? As a 75 PLD & WHM I know both sides of the argument, it boils down to how much you are blinking. As in, if your blinking every 5 seconds you are doing it wrong.


3) HP max and MP max, how much is enough on average to keep you alive from 1 shotting ? - I'm a Hume PLD

I'm a galka and can't answer that question, but I've been one shotted by every sky god Minus Genbu, and he tried his best one time.

4) Joytoy or Maha+1 when you're tanking seriously with /NIN ?

Maha. Your not a damage dealer. Joy is for /DNC and campaign.

5) March x 2 or March+Ballad ? - I have haste gears up to 22% recast reduction from haste/fastcast but I don't have much +Enmity gears.

Your going to have to get experience on how well you can keep hate if you don't have much enmity+. What DO you have would be better for answering this question.

6) Does defense value matter at all with /NIN ? - I mean like 370 and 400ish def.

Haste matters with /nin, defense stops mattering at 51 when the game looks at the damage formula and starts laughing.

Please answer base on the fact that I don't have any access to fancy pieces. (shadow mantle/d.ring/odin body/hydra haubert ... etc)

http://wiki.bluegartr.com/User:Apelila/PLD = what I use. My rings and earrings are kinda lol, but not anything that will wind me up in the WTF thread. Only reason I don't use a regular lamian kaman (I'm poor! and trying to complete my princess staff set) is because it saves on inventory. If they ever make those god damn eggs store able It'll be a higher priority, until then fuck it.

[TacoTaru]

1) Do you need it? Probably not, but it only helps, and I like my shield merits.

2) I gear swap constantly to maximize different gear sets. The real answer is it depends on how comfortable you are personally with your mages, and this applies even more so than to how comfortable your mages are with blinking. I've done most of my gaming with one person on my back up who knows who I play inside out, so he can cure me with macros np and just about every macro I have swaps gear. Personally I say fuck it. With over 2000 available macros, there's no reason not to be able to have specific macros catered to specific events/people. This is really a judgement call that depends on how your mages feel about it. If they don't like it/don't want to cooperate; you'll probably be dead fast enough to find out you should swap less/not at all.

3) I have about 1400-1500HP with food, 490ishMP in standing gear.

4) I don't have Joytoy, but if I did I'd still use Beavertail. (I've passed on it twice so far)

5) March+Ballad. I really don't see a situation (on serious fights) that I'd ever take double March barring that I had a second Bard to double Ballad.

6) Dunno? I know what you mean, but it's hard to say. Normally I eat carbonara anyway which bumps my defensive, but the only time I'd really say you would cater towards building DEF would be when shadows are down/putting them back up. In those cases I toss on my highest DEF gear + all the shield I can stack, but there's not too many cases where I'm left with my pants down for too long anyway though.



-Edit-
In all honesty you should check out Belkin's livejournal for PLD/NIN. It was a great start for me, and I started from that and worked it into how I play.

[eva00r]

Please link me to that livejournal, thank you.

-edit- found it ty.

[Lexa]

1) Depends on how seriously you take the job and your other jobs. If you're a career PLD, or will be using your PLD the most against HNMs, then definitely yes.

2) Yes. I used to belong to the "PLDs should never ever ever ever ever blink!" club - however, fact is that any good ls will have WHMs who knows how to get around a blinking tank. I don't blink nearly as much as one of my co-PLDs in the shell - he blinks like a Christmas tree light - yet the mages have never had problems keeping him alive for various things, even when shit has hit the fan.

3) I have about 1450 HP without food, in normal gear. Back when HP and lolVIT was all the craze, I was emoing about not being able to break 1700 HP like my galka/mithra PLD friends, until one of them told me that he had this theory that 1600 HP is all you really need. I've yet to break 1700 HP, I'm usually sitting at right over 1600 HP with Pescatora,and that's more than good enough for me. MP is of no importance for HNM, as in any good alliance, you'll have enough refresh to keep even the tiniest MP pool plentiful.

4) Macua+1 for big stuff, dynamis, Einherjar, etc. Joyeuse comes out when I'm soloing, killing smaller stuff I can actually hit, or offhand for my lolDD build.

5) March + Ballad. That's my personal preference, anyway.

6) Not really, unless you're talking extremely drastic differences.

PS. TacoTaru, Carbonara does not boost Defense, it boosts Attack. Pescatora boosts Defense.

[Wizrow]

2) BlinkMeNot plugin for windower is a GODSEND.


Blink on.

[kayn]

My questions to you are:
what other jobs do you have leved?
How important is pld to you?
what will you be using your pld for?

These responses are from an end game pld so take them as such.
yes, shield merits are necessary.

Don't gear swap until you know your support can handle it and they say you
can do it. DO NOT EVER PISS OFF YOUR SUPPORT!

I'm elv w/ 8/8 HP merits. i've got 1410 hp naked on pld/war. I strive for 1600. Sub nin i'm usually at about 1530-1580. I don't use food. That being said I don't have an endless pool of mp. I sit somewhere at between 320 and 390. This isn't a terribly big issue because of 1) chivary and 2) devotion. This stacked with auto-refresh, ballard, refresh and ares' body makes MP not a terribly big issue.

As an end game pld, if i see you in a tanking setup w/ a joytoy i'mma SS it and post it in an lolplayers thread.

Songs: depends on the fight. HNMs you use march + ballard (sometimes marchx2 though). things like dynamis & limbus you're little more than a 1st voke and a whm who ppl want to pull hate so i ask for 2x ballard.

only 2 things matter /nin. enmity and haste. once you have enough enmity to keep hate, then you put on haste. anything you're /nin on you should have a co-tank. learn to share.

Again, these may not all be relavant to you so take them with a grain of salt.

[Atlasion]

1) Its very useful, but not amazing.
2) I try to keep gearsap to a minimum. I have a 2 tanking gearsets, enmity and general tanking. I tank most of the time with general tanking gear on, and switch to enmity if I'm low on hate for some reason.
3) I have about 1500 HP, and roughly 350MP. It really depends on what you're tanking. I would say 1400-1500 is plenty. Only mobs like Tiamat are a problem as it can critical hit for as much as 700 when it gets into low HP. So a double attack can easily kill you if you're not at full. I'd recommend 1500 for solo tanking Khimaira too.
4) Mah+1 for pretty much all HNMs. Joyeuse for Limbus, Dynamis etc.
5) I always go for double march. Depends on what you're tanking though. I'd say that double march is better for Khimaira, Tiamat and Cerberus. All lesser HNMs you'll be fine with March+Ballad.
6) Defense does not matter much. Focus gears on enmity, haste and damage reduction.

[raginbull]

Couple of questions of my own.

Resentment cape, is it worth the effort, and in what situations is it useful?
Is Cerberus Mantle (+1) worth it?
Is M body really just a town piece these days?
Are Iron Ram head and hands worth it? I mean enduring the boring-ness of campaign just to get them.

[Kaslo]

Iron Ram gear (in general) is worth getting.

Head: Assjammer -1, Great Piece for those PLDs that can't get to Fafnir or Beat Bv2. Head is also one of the better places to get enimity.

Hands: If your gonna be /nin they aren't as need, much more a /war piece but still good.

Legs: Same as Hands.

Feet: I actually find myself using these alot on kited fights. I am usually my Sky LS's kiter /nin and use these but if I had askar I would probably use them.

On the subject of weapons: Mach+1 is probably Ideal (outside of rare gear like Haut) but don't forget about Templar Mace. This can be a nice little hate tool to play around with. Plus Moon/Starlight for more MP!

[Neosutra]

Wow, i disagree with most people here. Wasnt even gonna post but jesus:

1) Shield Skill merit, do you really need this endgame ?

Im going to assume your serious about pld, being such, GET SOME FUCKING SHIELD SKILL MERITS.

2) Gears swapping (that makes your model reloaded), do you do this ? - Assuming your mages don't play on PC and do not have access to BlinkMeNot plugin

Even w/o the plugins, your mages are fully capable of typing your name into macros.

3) HP max and MP max, how much is enough on average to keep you alive from 1 shotting ? - I'm a Hume PLD

As a hume, I went 5 hp and 3 mp, and have been very happy with the results. Your a hybrid race, your merits will reflect it.

4) Joytoy or Maha+1 when you're tanking seriously with /NIN ?

Maha. Your not a damage dealer. Joy is for /DNC and campaign.

5) March x 2 or March+Ballad ? - I have haste gears up to 22% recast reduction from haste/fastcast but I don't have much +Enmity gears.

Get some damned emnity gear, and the songs will depend on what your fighting and your other gear.

6) Does defense value matter at all with /NIN ? - I mean like 370 and 400ish def.

Yes is fucking matters. Anyone here that says defense is worthless and doesnt matter hasnt tanked, ever. Yes, your first priority on pld/nin should be cutting down your recast of Ni, but survivability and hate control are are important. /nin you should focus on haste/emnity, but at a minimum eat tacos so your not made of paper when your shadows go down.

[Neosutra]

Couple of questions of my own.

Resentment cape, is it worth the effort, and in what situations is it useful?
Is Cerberus Mantle (+1) worth it?
Is M body really just a town piece these days?
Are Iron Ram head and hands worth it? I mean enduring the boring-ness of campaign just to get them.

Resentment cape is worth it if you dont have aegis, if only for a cheap/free emnity swap peice that you can toggle into your magic build.
Cerb+1 is for town gear, though im basing that off valor cape.
M.body isnt just town gear, and is still a great damage down survivable peice, its just overshadowed by alot of newer gear now and is often less desired for /nin than any emnity peice.
Iron Ram gear is very much worth it.

And yes, as someone said above me, templar mace is a forgotten asap for lowmanning things.

[Callisto]

Resentment cape, is it worth the effort, and in what situations is it useful?
Is Cerberus Mantle (+1) worth it?
Is M body really just a town piece these days?
Are Iron Ram head and hands worth it? I mean enduring the boring-ness of campaign just to get them.

I personally definitely think the Resentment Cape is worth it, aside from the magic damage reduction which can make the difference on surviving something like Citadel Buster or Mijin Gakure in Dynamis, even though it has smaller enmity than other options, it's really nice for times when you either die and Breath Mantle charge wouldn't be up yet, or when actually XP'ing/Meriting/Campaigning it allows you to change to a DD cape for TP/WS then switch back for spells/JAs. Not to mention it's only level 40 so you can take it into level capped shit.

Cerb(+1) is probably more worth it for someone who is really looking to max out their enmity or who fights a lot of Cerb/Tiamat/Bahamut and is looking for an Enmity piece to compliment their Fire resist set...or looking to pimp out their DDadin set I guess.

M.Body...it's still a decent Spirits Within/free Cure swap piece I guess and maybe /DNC Waltz potency piece but ehh...can't see alot of use outside of that.

If you don't have fast access to Assjammer/Baha mask the IR head is definitely nice, that's a big chunk of Enmity for something that's free and not a ton of work to get. Hands I'm kinda meh about, I'd take legs over them, there's several nice options available on hands like Homam/Askar.

[Korremar]

Depending on what you do/don't have done as far as CoP goes, Shield merits are beautiful for capped stuff. I recently had to go do the Diabolos 40cap for some friends, and my overcapped shield helped noticeably. Not the exact question you asked, but it's worth throwing in anyway.

[Furionstormrage]

Questions
1) Shield Skill merit, do you really need this endgame ?

If you have room in your merits (no idea what other jobs you have) I would certainly get Shield. Everytime you block and it saves you, you'll be glad you did.

2) Gears swapping (that makes your model reloaded), do you do this ? - Assuming your mages don't play on PC and do not have access to BlinkMeNot plugin

This is a huge debate, everyone has an opinion. Personally, I tend to swap non-visible gear on every action that I take, and only blink for MDB or if I'm getting creamed I'll swap to KHead/AF+1 feet. My normal WHMs can handle a blinking tank, as long as said tank isn't retarded and doesn't blink every 2 seconds when he's in low HP, but I don't have anything that I really NEED to swap around visible on everything that I do.

3) HP max and MP max, how much is enough on average to keep you alive from 1 shotting ? - I'm a Hume PLD

It depends greatly on your support and what you're fighting. I think the general consensus is to aim for 1500-1600HP. Being Elvaan with 8 HP merits, in my idle gear I have about 1570? (Maint, can't check exact number) and I feel very comfortable without stacking more that would detract from more important stats.

4) Joytoy or Maha+1 when you're tanking seriously with /NIN ?

Maha+1, 4 Enmity will do much more for hate than Occasionally Missing Twice.
If you're awesome enough to hit stuff with a good % ACC for decent damage, go right ahead and use that Joytoy.

5) March x 2 or March+Ballad ? - I have haste gears up to 22% recast reduction from haste/fastcast but I don't have much +Enmity gears.

If given the choice, I'll take March/Ballad unless it's something that rapes shadows, then I'd prefer 2 March and I can live with Refresh/Auto Refresh/Parade Gorget. You always have Chivalry and Devotion to use to refill your MP. I tend to spam my MP though, curing anyone that needs it or dumping it on myself with HP -/+ setups, just my personal preference.

6) Does defense value matter at all with /NIN ? - I mean like 370 and 400ish def.

Yeah, you're gonna get hit, and while having a higher defense won't make you take a LOT less damage, every bit helps. Tacos or Pescatora offer a good Def Bonus.

[Oulanbator]

1) Shield Skill merit, do you really need this endgame ?
Seems totally worthless since they released reprisal.
If you loose shadows at an unexpected time and have to cast Ichi, cast reprisal then Ichi.

2) Gears swapping (that makes your model reloaded), do you do this ?
I prefer to avoid it as much as possible. I have two tanking sets, Utsup and Utsudown. Visible gear is the same, internal gear changes between enmity and shield skill/defense/Vit.
Only visible gear swaps I use are fire set, IR Polearm for stuff like CB, and WLegs if I suddenly need to kite something.

As a whm, I really prefer when tanks aren't blinking all the time and as a tank, I try to avoid blinking for nothing.
Adding 50 def and 20 Vit ( and empty HP) will not make you survive better: you are either about to die and you'd better be sure your mage won't loose target ( even if your main healers macro your name in, other players in the alliance can also land the cure that saves you, and they do not have your name macroed) or far enough from death not to care about saving 20 dmg on a 350dmg hit.

4) Joytoy or Maha+1 when you're tanking seriously with /NIN ?
Macua+1.
Polearm might be interesting when kiting stuff like Kirin, jailer of faith...

5) March x 2 or March+Ballad ?
Start with double march.
Send your bard a tell for a pianissimo+ballad if you feel like you used too much Mp ( I have around 450mp and try not to go below 200Mp just in case).

[Tan]

1. If you aren't serious about being a 75 PLD you might as well have someone with better gear/merits step up and do the job. Shield merits are a must for a career PLD.

2. Gear swapping is back and forth like everyone on this thread has mentioned. Maybe its just me but I typically idle in my Haste + gear that way I'm not swapping in and out of sets constantly while casting Utsusemi. I've also found that casting flash in typically "more haste gear" will net me more enmity than stacking enmity and say eff haste on flash. Thats primarily as I can cast flash more frequently. But this being said, you should still have a shitton of gear that you could swap into as necessary. I personally have all the homam pieces with valuable haste, a vit+ set, a shield + set, a enmity + set, a damage reduction set, a magic damage reduction set, full askar/hp for spirits set, an mp resting set, a dd set etc. etc. Like any person who takes a job seriously you want to have everything and anything for that slim fraction you might put it to use.

3. 1600 HP is a decent number for keeping you alive on those wtfpwned one shotter moves. I'd say 400 mp is also a reasonable amount so you can get the most use out of it. My merits for HP/MP are 4/4 for an Elvaan PLD so take that as you will.

4. I'm probably going to get some shit for this, but I have to say I use my Joytoy a lot more than other PLD's might. Anything that I don't have to worry about feeding TP I typically will use Joytoy especially if I'm getting SATAed. For me I typically only have a RDM and WHM in the tanking party so for me using Joytoy is the difference between several hundred MP on demand with Chivalry. I also have nearly full Sword + merits and typically all my idle gear is homam (hands/feet/legs) so I have decent accuracy to fill my TP up enough for Chivy. That being said, Macha +1 is used for mobs where I don't want to feed them TP or where my TP is going to be reset frequently. If you are doing shit like Sky/Sea/Dynamis/Limbus you probably could use a Jotoy full time and be better off than you would have been if you were using a Macha +1, but when you step up to the big stuff every enmity + helps. And like someone else said for kited stuff, IR Lance and Terra's Staff are also useful to have.

5. Typically March/Ballad when I have the luxury of a bard. Depending on the situation March/March has its place, but Ballad/Ballad seems like a waste to me.

6. Defense matters. Unlike a 75NIN you don't get Defender nor the Damage Reduction gear that they have access to so if you aren't buffing your idle defense you are going to get smacked around more than a red headed step child. Tacos a minimum for everyday tanking and then the sweet pescatora for things like Ultima/Omega/Whatever.

Pretty much said the same thing as everyone else but when you are looking for advice having different people say the same thing simply confirms that something is useful/practical.

[Neosutra]

I want to fucking choke a kitten everytime someone says you dont need shield skill anymore. Reprisal doesnt negate the need for shield skill.

Fuck.

[Ruiner]

Unlike a 75NIN you don't get Defender

If I'm tanking as NIN I'm not subbing WAR.

[Sendra]

Picked a few to answer:

1) Shield Skill merit, do you really need this endgame ?

Absolutely, absolutely not. I wouldn't waste any of my precious combat merits for a defensive skill on Paladin; if the extra slots are availible, put them in sword or save them for another job.

Between Carnage Elegy, Slow II, and Utsusemi, you'll be taking too few hits for a little extra shield skill in your utsusemi/facetank macro to even matter. If you really feel inclined to merit something for like, a one-percent-of-the-time clutch block, they're your merits.

2) Gears swapping (that makes your model reloaded), do you do this ? - Assuming your mages don't play on PC and do not have access to BlinkMeNot plugin

I do two visible swaps per action, usually. It's not killed me yet, and I've tanked JUST ABOUT everything.

3) HP max and MP max, how much is enough on average to keep you alive from 1 shotting ?

Most of my co-tanks float around 1400-1500.. Kind of overkill, imo. I stay around 1320 and fill my idle set with Magic Damage %-/MDB (Merman's Rings, Merman's Earring(s), Resolute Belt, Avalon Breastplate, etc etc) and NEVER eat a one shot. I have around 400 MP from homam and other crap (maybe more, I don't really pay attention to that lol) and I rarely fall below 250 curing as often as I can (granted, I usually have Gjallerballad.)

5) March x 2 or March+Ballad ? - I have haste gears up to 22% recast reduction from haste/fastcast but I don't have much +Enmity gears.

March/March/Ballad/Ballad ftw. If you're unfortunate enough to only have one BRD in your tank party, take March/Ballad.