PLD questions

[Neosutra]

You seem a bit insecure about your pld to be so angry.

I also find it funny how you are unaware of the fact that 4 shield merits alone won't put you at max shield block rate either. Not to mention the fact that the block increase from reprisal > the increased blocks you would get from 4 shield merits.

Anyway you may want to grab a towel or something and stop leaking all over this thread.

No, your ignorance of the job and other players ability actually offends me to the point of anger, learn the fucking difference.

8 shield skill will only help (more so as you fight harder mobs inwhich your static shield skill does not get you as close to the cap as it does with lower lvl mobs). The increase from merits is also -always- active, not active 40% of the time like reprisal.

Finally, go fucking test reprisal before you spout bullshit about not needing shield skill and reprisal being a good substitute, reprisal has -very- minimal effect on block rate increase (after testing it for about 4 hours on the same group of mobs, block rate % increase was not even noticable above the standard deviation between mobs). i.e. its not even a 5% increase in block rate. Its primary purpose is a neat way to reflect damage, with a fucking placebo effect of shield block rate increase.

You're a fucking moron that doesnt know what he is talking about, spouting bullshit about a job you obviously dont know how to play. Shut the fuck up.

[Gunslinger]

I agree that if you are a fulltime pld than shield skill is best, I am not arguing that. However, the clueless plds (like the 2 I quoted above) really aren't doing anything to help the argument why shield skill is better than melee combat skill if you have both.

So you're saying if you're a fulltime pld than shield skill is best... but if you have both melee and shield skills something changes? I'm confused. But:


http://www.knitemare.org/cats/lovethisthread.jpg

[Lexa]

I think Shield Skill is a matter of personal priority, like stated earlier, but useless? Really? Seriously? It's only two less shield skill than AF feet. Two less than a Boxer's Mantle. Yet, if we see a PLD who's higher than 52 (and not yet to the level where he'd most likely equip Haste% feet for /nin tanking or have +1 AF from Limbus) without AF feet, he'll end up in the "Gimp, Confused, WTF Player thread..." in a heartbeat.

If the 4 merits in Shield is worth it for a player, depends on how much that individual player uses, or wants to use, their PLD, but they are very very far from useless.

[Sendra]

Yet, if we see a PLD who's higher than 52 (and not yet to the level where he'd most likely equip Haste% feet for /nin tanking or have +1 AF from Limbus) without AF feet, he'll end up in the "Gimp, Confused, WTF Player thread..." in a heartbeat.

Maybe pre-75 and not /NIN, but of my 10ish gear sets on PLD, only three of them contain AF feet. What differs equipment skill and merit skill is that merits carry a level of commitment; You cannot swap merit sets per job/action. Shield skill isn't useless, but shield merits are barely worth the weight they carry considering how often they'll actually do anything for you.

[Lexa]

Maybe pre-75 and not /NIN

Yet, if we see a PLD who's higher than 52 (and not yet to the level where he'd most likely equip Haste% feet for /nin tanking or have +1 AF from Limbus) without AF feet, he'll end up in the "Gimp, Confused, WTF Player thread..." in a heartbeat.

If the 4 merits in Shield is worth it for a player, depends on how much that individual player uses, or wants to use, their PLD, but they are very very far from useless.

I thought I said it pretty clearly the first time around, but obviously not.

[Neosutra]

Maybe pre-75 and not /NIN, but of my 10ish gear sets on PLD, only three of them contain AF feet. What differs equipment skill and merit skill is that merits carry a level of commitment; You cannot swap merit sets per job/action. Shield skill isn't useless, but shield merits are barely worth the weight they carry considering how often they'll actually do anything for you.

What are you guys fighting that doesnt use AoE, wipe shadows, or have any interesting behavior that you're never caught with shadows down?

[Judai]

If you don't think Shield Skill matters, you are a fucking idiot and a shitty PLD, plain and simple. Most PLDs like to think they are amazing and never get hit, ever. Too bad we all watch them tank and get creamed in the face when shadows are down, where those of us who max out shield know we would be blocking those hits. So many PLDs from other LSes /t me, lol, so lucky you blocked that hit or you would be dead. Im like No, not luck, it's me fucking stacking shield skill unlike you and your LS PLDs.

I have 5 Melee jobs I play alot. I have 4 Shield Skill Merits and I would never drop them for a couple more Acc on a job I don't really need it on anyways. If you want to be a serious Endgame PLD and you merited Sword to hit shit better instead of Shield, you are a fucking idiot.

Reprisal is nice but anyone who thinks it gives you max shield block or it makes shield skill useless is also a fucking idiot.

I also want to say, all the retard PLDs who fulltime Askar Feet while /WAR need to fucking kill themselves.

Joyeuse is a nice sword for Einherjar/Dynamis/Solo or weak ass shit but not for serious HNMs. Macu+1 80% of the time.(why did so many ppl actually say Maha+1..)

So,

1. Shield Merits; Get them if you are serious about PLD.
2. Yes, Gear swap. Just not every 5s.
3. I'm Taru and have 1400-1700HP depending on what I'm doing(1700 for SW). Usually sit around 14-1500 though and other then CB I don't think I have ever been "one shot".
4. Macu+1 80% of the time and on all big things. Joy when I'm in Ein/Dyna/Weak shit.
5. March+Ballad usually. 2xMarch if I'm solo tanking something hard
6. Yes, Defence matters to an extent but don't go out of your way to add it(ie Phalanx rings fucking suck). Use Tacos.

This thread really brings out some stupid PLDs who act like they never get hit. I'm a pretty fucking good PLD and I've solo tanked plenty of things but I know for a fact I get hit plenty. Expect to get hit and be prepared for it, if you don't you are going to be lying on your face eating dirt.

[Sendra]

What are you guys fighting that doesnt use AoE, wipe shadows, or have any interesting behavior that you're never caught with shadows down?

I'm having a hard time finding where I said I'm never caught without shadows down. FYI, I've tanked everything short of Odin, AV, and the higher tier ZNM mobs. I'm not saying I'm never hit or fuck up or whatever, everyone does, but I guess I just value weapon merits more than something that matters only a portion of time less than 50% (even less if you have a co-tank, which is pretty standard afaik), and even then will not save you 100% of the time. I can count the number of times I'm physically hit on one hand in the case of some NMs, and I'm not talking short bullshit fights like Sky gods or Fafnir or something.

Saying that eight shield skill is the difference between a serious Paladin and a retard is farce, period.

[Judai]

I'm having a hard time finding where I said I'm never caught without shadows down. FYI, I've tanked everything short of Odin, AV, and the higher tier ZNM mobs. I'm not saying I'm never hit or fuck up or whatever, everyone does, but I guess I just value weapon merits more than something that matters only a portion of time less than 50% (even less if you have a co-tank, which is pretty standard afaik), and even then will not save you 100% of the time. I can count the number of times I'm physically hit on one hand in the case of some NMs, and I'm not talking short bullshit fights like Sky gods or Fafnir or something.

Saying that eight shield skill is the difference between a serious Paladin and a retard is farce, period.

You are seriously full of shit or you don't tank anything hard.

[Grey Jorildyn]

This one time at band camp, I solo tanked Cerberus and only got hit 6 times.

Honestly it's 8 skill, it's not going to make or break you. The completionist, career Paladins are going to get them. Everyone else is not. Pick your poison. It's not going to boil down to life or death here guys; they're just merits.

[Sendra]

You are seriously full of shit or you don't tank anything hard.

In what respect? I stand by everything I said, and whatever you consider hard I tank.

[Judai]

In what respect? I stand by everything I said, and whatever you consider hard I tank.

You are completely full of shit if you think you have tanked Cerb or Khim(or anything of any worth to try and brag about it) and gotten hit less then 5x in the total fight. Not saying they are "hard" but you aren't going to tank them and never get hit. You are just lying to yourself if you say you have, unless you kill them in 10m.

I'm not saying 8 Shield Skill would make or break you but it's just fucking stupid for PLDs to act like they never get hit and Shield skill is near worthless compared to 8 Acc. Seriously, you are talkig about 8 fucking Acc on Melee job/weapon #3. Then, on top of that you are acting like Shield Skill is crap now for some reason and you don't get hit.

(btw, I solo tank 75% of the shit my LS does atm because we are small and don't have many tanks.)

[Sendra]

I can count the number of times I'm physically hit on one hand in the case of some NMs

Some does not equal Khimaira and Cerberus, because I fuckin' well know I won't get hit five times on those NMs. Like honest to god, I really don't think I'm pulling a semantics card here making a big deal of 'some,' theres a giant difference between what I said and what you think I said.

I'm talking about something more on the lines of Tiamat, but I guess that is kind of an easy fight.. just long.

[Judai]

I can count the number of times I'm physically hit on one hand in the case of some NMs, and I'm not talking short bullshit fights like Sky gods or Fafnir or something.

to me that shows you are trying to brag about shit that would be considered decently hard to tank, especially since you counted out most things with the "not talking short bullshit fights".

and who the fuck cares about much else anyways? The whole point for this shit is against the shit that actually hits a ton and you need the gear/skill for it when you get hit.

and Tia is a joke since you get a break every 2m and could afk for flights. I've run off to take a piss when she flew.

[Kayos]

Semi-Long post warning.

Wow I completely missed the point again.

I never said that reprisal made it so you didn't need shield skill or was a "good substitue". Please stop putting words in my mouth. I stated that the increased block % from reprisal was probably more than it would be if you had an additional 4 shield merits. I also said that 4 shield skill merits alone wouldn't put you at max shield block rate either.

Learn to read seriously, instead of just posting angry "you are an idiot," crap. Also my entire point which you seem to be overlooking/not comprehending is that just like all you "real PLDs" say that shield skill is a must, I am saying the benefit from 4 shield skill merits is just as miniscule (or less if you have a bunch of melee jobs) than if you merit 4 in a combat skill.




Please read this:

Honestly it's 8 skill, it's not going to make or break you. The completionist, career Paladins are going to get them. Everyone else is not. Pick your poison. It's not going to boil down to life or death here guys; they're just merits.

Let it sink in.

Please reread since obviously you have trouble at comprehension. Did you find that towel yet btw?

Are you saying PLDs shouldn't have shield merits because of reprisal?

No, I am not saying that at all. Please see above for my explanation.

So you're saying if you're a fulltime pld than shield skill is best... but if you have both melee and shield skills something changes? I'm confused.

Kind of. I am saying more along the lines of, if you have a bunch of melee jobs AND PLD at 75, than I would rather do 8/8/4 in combat merits than 8/8 combat and 4 shield. For the reason that 8 shield skill (as many have mentioned) just like 4 combat merits won't make or break you. I just prefer the merits to be useful the entire time, and not just useful when shadows are down. Furthermore, since we now have reprisal, getting shadows back up is easier than ever.


Edit: and for Judai- I have tanked cerb many many times and gotten hit less than 5 times. I don't know how this is relevant at all seeing as how getting hit has nothing to do with your shield block rate. Getting hit is usually a factor of bad timing, AoE wiping shadows, and shared hate factors.

Sorry to edit again but this paragraph is just so hypocritical:

I have 5 Melee jobs I play alot. I have 4 Shield Skill Merits and I would never drop them for a couple more Acc on a job I don't really need it on anyways. If you want to be a serious Endgame PLD and you merited Sword to hit shit better instead of Shield, you are a fucking idiot.

So you need shield merits to be a "serious endgame pld," but you don't need combat merits to be a serious endgame DD?

[Lexa]

So you need shield merits to be a "serious endgame pld," but you don't need combat merits to be a serious endgame DD?

I think the point was that if you value your PLD more than your DDs, you'll get the shield merits, if you're a DD first and foremost, you won't.

[Kayos]

I agree and have never argued against that point. Some people just get so upset over the personal preferences of others. The difference between me and leakyvagpld Neosutra is that I don't say you aren't an elite melee if you don't have combat merits. Yet he and others say you aren't a "real PLD" unless you have shield skill merits, which is just silly.

[Neosutra]

I agree and have never argued against that point. Some people just get so upset over the personal preferences of others. The difference between me and leakyvagpld Neosutra is that I don't say you aren't an elite melee if you don't have combat merits. Yet he and others say you aren't a "real PLD" unless you have shield skill merits, which is just silly.

Someone who considered themselves a career mnk better damn well have H2H merits, thus if you are a "real" pld, (and let this sink in your fucking twit), get the god damned shield merits.

And stop fucking changing your words, you didnt say reprisal "probably" would make up. You fucking said you didnt need the skill because you have reprisal. Dont get so butt hurt when I call you out on your obvious ignorance. You just took a back step when I posted reprisal testing results and showed you dont have a fucking clue what the spell actually does.

[Dayson]

thus if you are a "real" pld, (and let this sink in your fucking twit), get the god damned shield merits.

I'm not entirely sure what a "real" pld would be to you, but I don't see the shield merits as a make or break thing to have.

Sure they are nice to have and if you have the merits to spare I'd say get them. But, it is not a factor that determines if a pld fails at his job or not.

I myself went ahead and merited shield because I don't have a melee job at 75 and had the points to spare. Did it make a noticeable difference? Not really from what I can see, but I'm sure it helps to some degree or another.

It is amazing how butthurt ppl can get over such small and trivial aspects of this game.

[Kaslo]

ok so in another direction...

What do people think of Templar Mace for PLD? >.>