DRG vs. THF

[CelinaAlexander]

I used to be a 75THF and RDM, lost my account a long time ago due to hackings, lost reg codes etc. Started a new account. Point is I was a THF main and absolutely adore the job, but now I'm having second thoughts.

My BRD is hitting 50 and I'm staticing with my uncle's NIN, we're leveling fast as fuck and expecting to be 75 by August 10th or so. My original plan has been to level BRD to 75, max merits on it, max the merits I can for THF (8/8 dagger, 4/4 crit, 3/5 STR 2/5 DEX(personal preference) and maybe some EVA for good measure.

However, my cousin is a level 72 DRG/SAM, and it seems fun as shit. His equips aren't that great and he still SEEMS to own ass, and if you notice, seems is the operative word here. I'm a bit more of a perfectionist than him, and would get a lot of the r/ex equipment I would need with BRD before I ever even unlocked DRG.

Now obviously, THF is a little more versatile than DRG, but that's not a huge concern since, like I said, my uncle and I are BRD and NIN, and I can't think of many things aside from HNMs/Gods/Jailers etc that we couldn't duo as BRD/WHM and NIN/DNC (hell, even some HNMs/Gods would be doable). Really I'm looking for a DD to maximize, because my favorite thing about THF was the intricacy of the equipment choices. Having a TP set, 3 different WS sets, EVA set, etc. was extremely fun for me, and I know I'd love doing it over again. My questions are as follows:

1) Does DRG have the same rewarding level of "omgwtfhe'sapimpedout(job)" that THF does? Are there multiple sets and variances that I can use, like THF, or is it cookie cutter like WAR and SAM where there's really only a few good sets of equipment?

2) Another factor going into this is the fact that, as THF, I'd be able to cap Dagger merits and level with those skill bonuses from 10-75. As DRG I would have to merit Polearm once I hit 75. The only merits I can think of that would help a DRG level from 10-75 are STR 5/5, HP 8/8, Crit 4/4, and maybe some Parrying skill or something for soloing? I don't really want to mess with Enmity, so maybe Enemy critical hit rate -4% for soloing? Would I even notice it?

3) Any other advice for present day DRG vs. THF would be nice as well, and input from both sides would be appreciated.

Edit: DRG/BLU for soloing still? Or is DRG/DNC better?

Edit2: Oh, and I'm a Mithra

[Tan]

I used to be a 75THF and RDM, lost my account a long time ago due to hackings, lost reg codes etc. Started a new account. Point is I was a THF main and absolutely adore the job, but now I'm having second thoughts.

My BRD is hitting 50 and I'm staticing with my uncle's NIN, we're leveling fast as fuck and expecting to be 75 by August 10th or so. My original plan has been to level BRD to 75, max merits on it, max the merits I can for THF (8/8 dagger, 4/4 crit, 3/5 STR 2/5 DEX(personal preference) and maybe some EVA for good measure.

However, my cousin is a level 72 DRG/SAM, and it seems fun as shit. His equips aren't that great and he still SEEMS to own ass, and if you notice, seems is the operative word here. I'm a bit more of a perfectionist than him, and would get a lot of the r/ex equipment I would need with BRD before I ever even unlocked DRG.

Now obviously, THF is a little more versatile than DRG, but that's not a huge concern since, like I said, my uncle and I are BRD and NIN, and I can't think of many things aside from HNMs/Gods/Jailers etc that we couldn't duo as BRD/WHM and NIN/DNC (hell, even some HNMs/Gods would be doable). Really I'm looking for a DD to maximize, because my favorite thing about THF was the intricacy of the equipment choices. Having a TP set, 3 different WS sets, EVA set, etc. was extremely fun for me, and I know I'd love doing it over again. My questions are as follows:

1) Does DRG have the same rewarding level of "omgwtfhe'sapimpedout(job)" that THF does? Are there multiple sets and variances that I can use, like THF, or is it cookie cutter like WAR and SAM where there's really only a few good sets of equipment?

2) Another factor going into this is the fact that, as THF, I'd be able to cap Dagger merits and level with those skill bonuses from 10-75. As DRG I would have to merit Polearm once I hit 75. The only merits I can think of that would help a DRG level from 10-75 are STR 5/5, HP 8/8, Crit 4/4, and maybe some Parrying skill or something for soloing? I don't really want to mess with Enmity, so maybe Enemy critical hit rate -4% for soloing? Would I even notice it?

3) Any other advice for present day DRG vs. THF would be nice as well, and input from both sides would be appreciated.

Edit: DRG/BLU for soloing still? Or is DRG/DNC better?

Edit2: Oh, and I'm a Mithra

A lot of stuff to cover in that post. First I want to clear something up in your original post, that italicized portion, is extremely unlikely. Theres hardly anything worthwhile that is duoable by those two jobs, maybe a few Sky triggers some baby NM's and some ZNM's. Best advice for gearing up jobs before they hit 75 is get a good sky/sea/limbus/dynamis/assault/whatever linkshell, run a nyzul isle static and beat the hell out of proto-omega.

Onto the bulk of your post; DRG and THF are both really capable jobs for handling duo/trio situations, both do really well on merits vs. birds (if you have them pimped out) and thats where the catch is. DRG and THF both require extensive work gearing them up to the point where they are "omgwtfhe'sapimpedout(job)" and even then ... they really aren't that spectacular. A well geared SAM, WAR, DRK, MNK probably going to put up bigger and better numbers because thats just what they do. But! They have their place and time like anything and everything, best advice is don't play a job for their "omgwtfhe'sapimpedout(job)" value but because you enjoy it. Even if you level DRG or THF any LS with their right mind is going to want you on BRD 24-7 unless you pull TH4 out of your ass somehow.

Gear sets for DRG and THF are pretty similiar so in all reality you could level both and gear them relatively effectively. Some shared sets between the two that would be desirable to obtain, Homam, Neptunal Abjuration Set, Dusk hands and feet, and a few other items that they share (love torque etc.). But thats about all the similarity between the two in terms of gear. Theres a lot of different gear sets and variety out there for any job but in terms of the "best" it typically boils down to how much haste + and acc+ you can stack on any job, thus Homam has a lot of key sets for use in general meleeing and then your Hectacomb is typically some of your best WS gear you can obtain for both THF and DRG. A few other noteable pieces for both jobs come from Nyzul Isle Assault, Askar has a lot of fine pieces for DRG, hands, body, legs, and helm for sure, and Denali has a few pieces that are pretty okay for THF, head, legs, feet. However the pinnacle gear for DRG is probably going to come from a lot of Ares pieces and a few Skadi pieces for THF.

Merits, merits, merits. Yes being able to merit your Dagger Skill for thief is really handy as you get Viper Bite, Dancing Edge, Shark Bite and even Evisceration before their time for anyone without merited skills. Is it going to make or break your leveling experience? Depends how anal you are about that kind of stuff, I'd probably say not so much. Crit Hit %, STR, would be your obvious choices for meriting anything for an up and coming 75 Job, I wouldn't worry about parry/evasion for DRG unless you primarily plan on leveling solo (which very well may be the case). I'd suggest meriting MP+ if you are interested in soloing on DRG. Both jobs are probably going to have relatively difficult time leveling to 75 in pick up groups so hopefully you have a static.

DRG/BLU is probably you best option for soloing, post 60+, at around 75 if you can pick up a Saurian Helm you have a ghetto Wyrm Armet and probably could easily handle most T's-VT's.

My overall opinion is level DRG. You've done thief once you enjoyed it yes, but to do it all again its sometimes overwhelming, annoying and tedious. DRG should be relatively fresh and exciting for you as you haven't leveled it before and it has a lot of versatility in forms of healing support, dd and lolwveryn dot. My good friend was a 75 DRG w/ Wyrmal Armet and there was nothing more enjoyable then duoing/trioing random shit with him until he quit (thankfully he gave away his account to another friend, so I still get to do that kind of shit). Some examples range from 3 manning Faust, 2.5 manning Ix'drk with Wvyern DoT and a range of random NM's.

[Callisto]

I'm the one who inherited the DRG Tan's talking about, and while I can't speak for the overall leveling experience of it, I can say two things:

1) A well-geared/merited DRG is fun as shit and extremely versatile. You're not going to put up the wtfpwn uber-parse #'s on HNMs, but you destroy merit mobs, you're functional in low-man, and you can solo like a mofo. Like Tan said the gear is unfortunately relatively hard to come by in some cases, but some of it like Askar/Neptunal/Homam really is becoming much more accessable these days.

2) Everyone I know who has THF leveled hates it and bitches to no end when I make them come THF to something. Everyone I know who has DRG leveled loves it and bitches to no end when I don't let them come DRG to something. Take that as you will.

[CelinaAlexander]

A whole shitload of useful info, and misunderstood me about NMs

I wasn't talking about really hard stuff, mostly hinting at stuff like Ose, AF quests, and mission NMs.

[Tan]

I wasn't talking about really hard stuff, mostly hinting at stuff like Ose, AF quests, and mission NMs.

Yeah then I misunderstood you on that lol. I guess I take having multiple 75 jobs for granted and its been too long since I've needed help with on those types of things. Typically when people mention duoing/lowmanning I automatically think of things like ENM's/ KSNM's/Gods/Jailers/Ix'aerns/ZNM's whatever. If you are going after NM's like that then you would most certainly be set with NIN+BRD.

[CelinaAlexander]

Yeah then I misunderstood you on that lol. I guess I take having multiple 75 jobs for granted and its been too long since I've needed help with on those types of things. Typically when people mention duoing/lowmanning I automatically think of things like ENM's/ KSNM's/Gods/Jailers/Ix'aerns/ZNM's whatever. If you are going after NM's like that then you would most certainly be set with NIN+BRD.

Well, another thing is that my Grandma is transferring back to my server now that I play, and she's a 75 WAR RDM and DNC, but all of that is irrelevant I guess.

I have new questions, got some help on IRC but more opinions never hurt:

My realistic TP set goal is going to be

Thalassocrat;PoleGrip;;TiphiaSting
AskarZuch;PeacockCharm;Brutal;Fowling
AskarKorazin;HomamMano;Rajas;Flame
Forager's;Swift;HomamCosc;HomamGamb

Good? Bad? Changes (and I don't mean the obvious stuff like Speed Belt and Ares, as I've never been into Salvage or made of money)? That will give me +26 Stp with /SAM (which is what I will need to obtain a 6 hit build with a 492 Delay polearm)

New questions:

1) When taking into account store TP, how do I handle WSs? From a DRGtard's standpoint it doesn't seem like I would macro out Brutal, Askar, or Rajas for WS, as they are all kickass pieces of gear. If I ever DID start salvage, I would probably macro out Korazin for Ares (or wear Ares full time and eat Arrabbiato or something, my uncle is a 100 cook and ~20k for a 3 hour food isn't really that bad, Carbonara if I was low on money?) Pentathrust hits 5 times, should I calculate only the first hit into my 6 hit build and call the other 4+ hits bonuses, or take an average of 3/4 hits landing and use that?

2) What are some rare/ex items I could get as my BRD (aside from Assault Jerkin) that I would appreciate when I started leveling DRG? Stuff like Hecatomb, Rajas, Swift Belt etc.

[Callisto]

1) When taking into account store TP, how do I handle WSs? From a DRGtard's standpoint it doesn't seem like I would macro out Brutal, Askar, or Rajas for WS, as they are all kickass pieces of gear. If I ever DID start salvage, I would probably macro out Korazin for Ares (or wear Ares full time and eat Arrabbiato or something, my uncle is a 100 cook and ~20k for a 3 hour food isn't really that bad, Carbonara if I was low on money?) Pentathrust hits 5 times, should I calculate only the first hit into my 6 hit build and call the other 4+ hits bonuses, or take an average of 3/4 hits landing and use that?

You'd still want to macro in an Acc body piece for Penta probably to ensure you land more hits, I personally use N.Body. Assuming you land the first few hits on Penta missing the Store TP from Askar body on WS isn't an issue.

2) What are some rare/ex items I could get as my BRD (aside from Assault Jerkin) that I would appreciate when I started leveling DRG? Stuff like Hecatomb, Rajas, Swift Belt etc.

Chanoix's Gorget, Swift Belt/Wyvern Mail, Rajas/Uthalam's, DRG AF+1 mats are generally easy to come buy, if you can get some in advance for hands or maybe legs, N.Body/N.Feet, maybe N.Hands, Aurum Cuisses/Sabtons/maybe Cuirass, Askar Legs/Hands/Body/Head, W.Turban, possibly Bushinomimi depending on other jobs you level and if you want to drop cash on Triumph or not.

[Tan]

TP set looks good, this is all hypothetical mind you and writing it on paper is a lot easier than the amount of time it will take you to obtain all the items. If you can afford the ACC hit on the neck, Chivalrous Chain would give you an added +1 sTP and Ecphoria ring would also give you +1sTP so should beable to maintain a 6 hit if you are using Penta-Thrust (hitting all hits) even without the Askar Korazin w/ Rajas, Chivy Chain, Ecphoria Ring, and Brutal. Don't forget if you use Barone Body/Pants for Jumps you are gaining an additional 1-2 TP per piece depending on NQ or HQ, so you can count those as one of your "hits" in your 6 hit build. So I wouldn't really sweat maintaining your 6 hit build even without askar korazin. Another alternative would be Aurum Cuirass as it has 7 sTP and could be viable for both TPing and WSing.

On a side note, you probably want to work all the missions as fast as you can so you have Ethereal Earring for when you are a 75 DRG as thats one of the sexiest things for Solo Drg.

AJ, Saurian Helm, V.belt, Dragoon's Earring, and maybe some free lot DRG relic and AF+1 mats depending on your LS's rules. If you were in my LS you could theoretically get Neptunal with us as we (typically) don't differientiate as long as they can use the item.

[Callisto]

If you were in my LS you could theoretically get Neptunal with us as we (typically) don't differientiate as long as they can use the item.

My N.Hands were in fact strictly for my melee BRD, tyvm!

[Tan]

My N.Hands were in fact strictly for my melee BRD, tyvm!

Yeah that little shit got them before my PLD/DRK/THF got them. So go figure.

[Xanthe]

Well, another thing is that my Grandma is transferring back to my server now that I play, and she's a 75 WAR RDM and DNC, but all of that is irrelevant I guess.

I have new questions, got some help on IRC but more opinions never hurt:

My realistic TP set goal is going to be

Thalassocrat;PoleGrip;;TiphiaSting
AskarZuch;PeacockCharm;Brutal;Fowling
AskarKorazin;HomamMano;Rajas;Flame
Forager's;Swift;HomamCosc;HomamGamb

Good? Bad? Changes (and I don't mean the obvious stuff like Speed Belt and Ares, as I've never been into Salvage or made of money)? That will give me +26 Stp with /SAM (which is what I will need to obtain a 6 hit build with a 492 Delay polearm)

New questions:

1) When taking into account store TP, how do I handle WSs? From a DRGtard's standpoint it doesn't seem like I would macro out Brutal, Askar, or Rajas for WS, as they are all kickass pieces of gear. If I ever DID start salvage, I would probably macro out Korazin for Ares (or wear Ares full time and eat Arrabbiato or something, my uncle is a 100 cook and ~20k for a 3 hour food isn't really that bad, Carbonara if I was low on money?) Pentathrust hits 5 times, should I calculate only the first hit into my 6 hit build and call the other 4+ hits bonuses, or take an average of 3/4 hits landing and use that?

2) What are some rare/ex items I could get as my BRD (aside from Assault Jerkin) that I would appreciate when I started leveling DRG? Stuff like Hecatomb, Rajas, Swift Belt etc.

Drop Fowling Earring and use Assault Earring instead. Shoot for an Ace's Helm, but Askar should suffice in a pinch. Don't TP in a Flame Ring. Chigre is a very easy ZNM you can kill for Blood Ring, or finish ToAU and get Ulthalam's Ring.

1) My policy is to only count the first hit on a WS when considering 6-hit compatability. I also don't count Barone/Conte pieces since Ares's is much better if you have it available. Brutal and Rajas are fulltime pieces. I would use Hecatomb Harness over Askar Korazin for WS, and preferably Ares's Cuirass if you can get it. Arrabbiata lasts 30 minutes, not 3 hours, not to mention dragon meat is a fairly rare ingredient to come across.

2) Any hecatomb pieces, Rajas, Assault Jerkin, Ulthalam's Ring, Blood Ring for starters.

[Zoot]

I don't even have dragoon unlocked, so I'm going to answer these questions as best I can from the THF side.

1) Does DRG have the same rewarding level of "omgwtfhe'sapimpedout(job)" that THF does? Are there multiple sets and variances that I can use, like THF, or is it cookie cutter like WAR and SAM where there's really only a few good sets of equipment?

I'm not too sure about when you quit, but thief is honestly pretty cookie cutter. There's just a lot of stupid gear out there that confuses people into thinking it's good for the job. A mixture of Homam and Skadi is the staple of just about every end game Thief's TP set, situational Rapparee harness aside. Most of us are cookie cutter to a degree, although things are changing with the addition of Enkidu gear and Sandworm for WS sets.

Homam is easier to get if you have a good group for Limbus, Skadi is not too difficult if not painstakingly slow to get with a good salvage group, and Enkidu is probably the easiest and second to Neptunal gear. But for Homam and Skadi, unless you find some really, really nice and eager to please teams or you have a few million gil to spare, don't expect any of that gear to be passed your way without having the job at 75. There are certain pieces that a thief will need, like a swift or speed belt, a peacock charm or a love torque, and a brutal earring, etc. Only if outstandingly and correctly equipped at 75 can a Thief even compare in damage to other melees. In other words, a skilled, decently equipped DRG will outdamage a skilled, decently equipped THF, in most situations.

[Tan]

W. Turban is another thing you could get on BRD for DRG and THF.

[Xanthe]

a skilled, decently equipped DRG will outdamage a skilled, decently equipped THF, in most situations.

If the THF is ever outdamaging the DRG, the DRG isn't very skilled and/or decently equipped.

[Tan]

If the THF is ever outdamaging the DRG, the DRG isn't very skilled and/or decently equipped.

I don't know about that, Ass Charge every 5 mins is pretty damn potent, not to mention the wide variety of high damage daggers that are out there now. But it boils down to is that Thief is going to typically put out a lot more DoT and maybe the occasional big WS (w/ a Triple attack proc) but DRG is going to pump out more consistent damage all the time. But lets not turn this into a DRG vs THF debate cuz thats kinda lol <_<;;

[Zoot]

Eh, if they're dying for any reason, taking AoE up the butt or taking too much hate with a crappy healer, the thief will win lol.

[Callisto]

THF has been proven to not help my RDM Hat drop, while DRG has as of yet not been proven to not help it.

Go w/ DRG.

[eva00r]

LS always need your 5/5 Angon merit in most case, zergin or not. But if you have gil/drop problems duoing with your uncle, I recommend THF.

[rath]

Sold my account long time ago

I know who bought it and resold you on a diff server, don't claim was stolen lol.

Edit: forgot why I opened to topic.

On topic, Thf is great to have for duoing stuff. DRG can just tear stuff up though, so if you want a job for DDing, take drg. If you want to be able to farm better and still do good damage, take thf. The new enmity stealing JAs also make duoing with thf+DD very easy. Since your uncle already has drg so high, thf would make your duoing much easier and more profitable.

[Thorny]

Typically when people mention duoing/lowmanning I automatically think of things like ENM's/ KSNM's/Gods/Jailers/Ix'aerns/ZNM's whatever. If you are going after NM's like that then you would most certainly be set with NIN+BRD.

NIN + BRD can duo like the wind, sheep in antlions clothing, holy cow, and buggby.. that's 2 options for attohwa in addition to ENMs in the other zones. They can duo steam cleaner, despot, ullikummi, olla, brig blade, despot for sky pops.. contaminated colosseum ks30 and i'm sure some others(haven't really looked into it). NIN + BRD duo ix'drk straight tanking is certainly faster than RDM + RDM or whatever your wyvern DoT setup was.. though RDM + BLM stomps all over it. Many many ZNMs can be duoed by NIN + BRD in a reasonable amount of time... as far as gods the only one you can really duo is genbu and it's not hard to solo on any job with ranged damage so irrelevant. The main one you have correct is jailers, but even then I'm sure a nin could nuke kite fort if the BRD helped seperate adds. People don't give ninja nearly enough credit >_>