Edge Guarding

[Ramor]

Did a search, didn't find any topics devoted to this particular aspect of the game

Anyway, I'm sure everyone has their ways of doing it, in particular the quick wave-dash like fall to the edge guard then the slow crawl back up, invincible all the while; I was wondering how people generally deal with this

My friend's a pretty ridiculous Sonic player who's quite consistent at doing this, I always try to throw a few curveballs and take different routes to getting back on the stage aside from the classic edge-grab but that presents quite a few new problems such as being hit on landing (depending on the move, like marth's third jump has a relatively long recovery time on landing), and i can't seem to come up with a new way of dealing with this and was hoping people would share how they do it

Also, how do people deal with characters that have no trouble going above the edge in terms of going for spikes/meteors? (flyers like Pit, Kirby, Snake etc...), I have trouble getting above them to try any sort of spike move, and hitting them further and further generally leads to me dying or not really gaining any sort of viable advantage.

[AkashiXI]

You need to pressure floaty characters like Pit/Kirby/etc instead of actually edge guarding them. Eventually, if you pressure them correctly, you'll get the chance to spike or put them in a situation where you can KO them. Different characters have different ways of pressuring enemies, an example would be Ike's fair counter for when they try to get back onto the stage. For Marth (I'm assuming this is who you play as), bait them to attack you and counter with a dancing edge or down-B, and rack up % that way. You can also gimp certain floaty characters like Kirby with bair while hanging off the ledge.

As far as edge guarding, unfortunately some characters have terrible disadvantages when it comes to gimping>_>. Sadly, I'd say Sonic has the edge (no pun intended!) over Marth when it comes to camping. His spring can push you farther back to allow even easier edge guarding, and Dolphin Slash is one of the easier recoveries to gimp. Switch it up with mind games, alternate your methods of recovering (do a few dancing blade swings to wear off his invincibility frames when he's hanging off the edge), and most importantly GET CLOSE ENOUGH TO THE EDGE SO EVEN IF HE ROLLS UP YOU'LL HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO GRAB THE LEDGE. If you combine both the first and second methods I mention, you may get lucky with a ledge spike, and it'll most likely make him more nervous to edge guard. You can't gimp as easily as you could in Melee, so I'm sure you'll find a way around this.

[Ryko]

Part one: Are you using shield breaker to get back at all?

[Ramor]

Part one: Are you using shield breaker to get back at all?

I'm not real familiar with the names of specific attacks, but I'm pretty sure that's his purple-charging thing (you know what i mean >.>) and no I'm not

I play a lot of Ike/Marth (mostly just these two, for now anyway) and I have trouble pressuring the floaty characters for some reason, if they don't really float I usually don't have a lot of trouble keeping them off the stage for a while and wracking up some %, but things that fly way over me I can't seem to find a good way to get to them all the while leaving myself some sort of get-back-on-the-stage plan

[Ryko]

Shield breaker is the purple charging thing yeah, it sends marth sideways if you fully charge it in the air. I can give you some ike edgeguarding/pressure tips/vids but I'm still learning marth myself.

[Ramor]

Shield breaker is the purple charging thing yeah, it sends marth sideways if you fully charge it in the air. I can give you some ike edgeguarding/pressure tips/vids but I'm still learning marth myself.

yeah i've been following quite a few of your videos (which prompted me to even try ike), i've got a fair amount of the strategies down but I can't seem to do much against floaters who don't do any damage with their third jumps, or just have the ability to fly right over me =/

any vids would work best, i usually have no trouble repeating things that i can watch

edit: also, i suppose the title is a misnomer, i more or less meant how do people deal with people they've thrown off the stage (for those with edges obviously) not so much the edgehogging of yesteryear

[Ramor]

So anyway, Shield Breaker is some awesome stuff big thanks for that recommendation, aside from me pointing it in the wrong direction on occasion it works real well

getting back with ike is still posing some problems, but marth is working a hell of a lot better

[AkashiXI]

So anyway, Shield Breaker is some awesome stuff big thanks for that recommendation, aside from me pointing it in the wrong direction on occasion it works real well

getting back with ike is still posing some problems, but marth is working a hell of a lot better

Yeah, Ike has a nice recovery but it can be gimped (the top where he grabs his Aether is where the super armor wears), so you really need to predict where the top of your up-b will end, or else some characters like Marth can easily gimp you with his fsmash. Just switch things up with >B and Aether, don't just use >B for when you're far off from the stage. Also, you'll find that Ike is extremely easy to learn at the start because the lack of his abilities, and Marth is hard because of all his techs, BUT Marth will be easier to use in a competitive situation (like a tourney) than Ike will. Ike, however, feels soooo much more rewarding (for me) when you beat a higher tier character:<

[Ramor]

The only problem's with getting back with Ike that I'm finding is that my friends have no trouble just being invincible for the amount of time required to ignore the damage that would be incurred from the sword at it's highest point, which makes me then miss the edge entirely

also, they have this awful habit of screwing up my quick-draw recovers too, because they do the invincible thing and then Ike continues to finish his ending slash and then i generally just fall and die pathetically =(

not having as much trouble with Marth though, oddly, still trying to find a way to footstool off their heads if they're under me when i'm hanging off the ledge, but that's another day's task (like tonight woo)

[AkashiXI]

It's called invincibility frames, and it lasts about 3seconds iirc. About your >B... yeah, like I said Ike can easily be gimped (they can also interrupt you midway by running into your >B and airdodging). Always try to aim your >B towards the level and not the ledge, but if you can't then eh... just pray they fuck up. As far as invincibility frames while edge hogging on Aether? Just delay your UB so you eventually hit them. Ike's Aether is about 1.5secs long, about half of what the invincibility frame is, so it's kind of difficult for someone to ledge guard you UNLESS they have a tether.

[Thulius]

Just to clarify, aether's super armor wears the instant you start rising, but it happens so fast and the hit box is so weird that it's rare to get knocked out of it before you reach the top. It's definitely possible, though. Ledge invincibility is also a bit less than 3 seconds, I'd say 1.5-2.

Aether is one of the harder recoveries to get around imo, especially considering your timing has to be absolutely perfect to edgehog it. Quick draw, on the other hand...

[Ramor]

Just to clarify, aether's super armor wears the instant you start rising, but it happens so fast and the hit box is so weird that it's rare to get knocked out of it before you reach the top. It's definitely possible, though. Ledge invincibility is also a bit less than 3 seconds, I'd say 1.5-2.

Aether is one of the harder recoveries to get around imo, especially considering your timing has to be absolutely perfect to edgehog it. Quick draw, on the other hand...

well, my friend is surprisingly good at edgehogging Aether, I don't know how he does it (it's not 100%) but he's still pretty damn consistent with it

[AkashiXI]

Does he play a character with a tether? If you get the timing down, it's actually really easy to gimp.

Jump on the ledge for invincibility frame, wait for the Ike to raise his sword and start to retrieve it, quickly press down (or DI back) then tether again for invincibility frame.

[Meian]

Yeah, Ike has a nice recovery but it can be gimped (the top where he grabs his Aether is where the super armor wears), so you really need to predict where the top of your up-b will end, or else some characters like Marth can easily gimp you with his fsmash. Just switch things up with >B and Aether, don't just use >B for when you're far off from the stage. Also, you'll find that Ike is extremely easy to learn at the start because the lack of his abilities, and Marth is hard because of all his techs, BUT Marth will be easier to use in a competitive situation (like a tourney) than Ike will. Ike, however, feels soooo much more rewarding (for me) when you beat a higher tier character:<

You can only imagine how I feel when I win against "anyone" with Ganondorf XD

Just to clarify, aether's super armor wears the instant you start rising, but it happens so fast and the hit box is so weird that it's rare to get knocked out of it before you reach the top. It's definitely possible, though. Ledge invincibility is also a bit less than 3 seconds, I'd say 1.5-2.

Aether is one of the harder recoveries to get around imo, especially considering your timing has to be absolutely perfect to edgehog it. Quick draw, on the other hand...

Really... Hmm, not sure how true this is. There has to be some point in the rise where there is some super armor as I noticed from using PK Flash twice on Aether and it didn't stop him. I know for a fact the point between the sword being at the peak and the rise does have the super armor after having tried to Thunder Stomp it.



Quick-draw is fairly easy to counter but Aether is a problem if you don't have a move in your arsenal to knock Ike diagonally downwards. If what you said was true Thul I'll have to do some testing later.

[AkashiXI]

Lol, yeah Aether is easily the worst recovery to try and punish if you don't know how to do it. The simple fact that it can spike you if you fuck up AND it deals a decent amount of damage (I think 15-20%?) is simply sex D:. On another note, I need moar people to fight my Ike!

[Thulius]

Really... Hmm, not sure how true this is. There has to be some point in the rise where there is some super armor as I noticed from using PK Flash twice on Aether and it didn't stop him. I know for a fact the point between the sword being at the peak and the rise does have the super armor after having tried to Thunder Stomp it.

Quick-draw is fairly easy to counter but Aether is a problem if you don't have a move in your arsenal to knock Ike diagonally downwards. If what you said was true Thul I'll have to do some testing later.

Unless the properties in the air are different than on the ground, I'm positive it works. Tested it myself, the timing is pretty tricky and tbh it's not worth the risk unless you have an attack that lingers for a while.

[Ramor]

When people are doing Aether at the edge, when's the best point in the attack to try and hit? Some instant right before the grabbing of the edge? Or what's a better strategy to spike Ike

[AkashiXI]

Fsmash with range (Marth, Ike, Ganon, any fsmash that is disjointed) has an easy time gimping Aether. And to answer your question, it's the tip where Ike grabs his sword and starts to descend. Don't try to spike Ike when he's doing his Aether, if anything try to counter or reverse(cape)/water-gun him.

[Meian]

Fsmash with range (Marth, Ike, Ganon, any fsmash that is disjointed) has an easy time gimping Aether. And to answer your question, it's the tip where Ike grabs his sword and starts to descend. Don't try to spike Ike when he's doing his Aether, if anything try to counter or reverse(cape)/water-gun him.

What? o_o Explain more for me XD


You forgot to mention Fludd, epic moments if they aren't smart XD (I suppose water-gun is like it ...)

[AkashiXI]

I meant water-gun as water based attacks like Squirtle's and Mario's b/>b. As far as Disjointed, some characters fsmash have properties where the tip of their smash isn't connected to their body (I guess you can say they have larger hit boxes, whatever term you want to use). I BELIEVE Ganondorf's fsmash will outrange/outprioritize Ike's aether, but you have to be pretty accurate to get it down. If you want to practice on gimping Ike's recovery, I suggest trying it on an NPC as Marth.