NFL Preseason Thread *Predictions/Discussions*

[Deejay]

If you didn't mean "the only QB" then well....Barry Sanders.

Well, RB's are a whole different beast. Tiki Barber had some of his best seasons when the Giants line was giving up the most sacks in the league. Pass blocking is all about quick feet whereas run blocking is all about strength/proper assignments, so it's a little easier.

[archibaldcrane]

Ohio State and Michigan obviously are traditional powerhouses, but there's a big step down after that.

I'm a shameless Wisconsin fan, but I'll let Rivals.com speak for the "big step down":

How about some props for Bucky? Wisconsin is one of only three schools (USC and West Virginia are the others) to have played in January bowls each of the past four seasons. Want more? The program is in the midst of four consecutive nine-victory seasons and only eight other schools are riding a similar streak. I could go on, but you get my point: Wisconsin has become one of the nation's top programs. That won't change this season. The Badgers have the timber to win the Big Ten title. At the least, expect this team again to play in a premier January bowl – again. Someone fire up the grill and tap the keg.

However, they play in a row @Fresno State (Rivals.com preseason #22), @Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State in games 3-7 this year. Oh boy.

[archibaldcrane]

Pass blocking is all about quick feet whereas run blocking is all about strength/proper assignments, so it's a little easier.

I would argue that the reason that Ryan Grant did well last season is he fit best into the Packers run-blocking trap scheme, which is about formations, technique and execution (and Grant's good vision for the cutback) more than "strength". It worked on most teams (especially the Seahawks), but the Giants' D-Line was just too physical for the Packers' "finesse" running game.

[Deejay]

Exactly why I think he's overrated lol.

[recuperi]

because he couldn't play very well against the best d-line of the league last season? it sounds like you're putting your expectations for him way too high

[archibaldcrane]

Exactly why I think he's overrated lol.

Trap-blocking is what the Packers do - it's what they implemented before Grant was the starter - Grant is just the best RB on the team at running in that scheme. This is why comparisons between Grant and the Giants RBs are stupid - Brandon Jacobs is a very good runner, and if I was drafting a team from scratch I'd take him over Grant for sure. But I don't honestly think that Jacobs would be as productive in the Packers specific run-blocking scheme as Grant is.

The Packers run-blocking isn't "dominating" - it's just tricky. And Grant is very good at running in that type of scheme.

To be clear Deejay, that's not why you think he's overrated, you think he's overrated because you nut-hug the Giants and don't like the idea that they cut a good RB. He wasn't great for Giants system, he's great for the Packers'. It is what it is.

[Tyche]

I forgot archi was a wisconsin homer. So homer, Favre or no Favre. which would you prefer? We need a hometown opinion of the matter. The rest of us just banter mindlessly.

[archibaldcrane]

I have no problem seeing Rodgers as our starting QB, whether that means Favre stays retired or is traded out of the division. I'm excited to see how he does, and honestly when your QB is as rock solid as a starter as Favre has been since I was 12 (I'm 28 now) it...gets just a tiny bit boring. The season is much more interesting with Rodgers starting, and I think that the Packers are doing the right thing. They aren't going to get a first-round draft pick for a QB who will play 1 more season, so they need to lower the bar a bit and get rid of him for what they can get (preferably to the Jets).

I love Favre, but I wouldn't mind seeing him creamed on a shitty team to pay for his indecision. In fact, I'd prefer to see his new team do poorly than do well. Maybe that makes me a bad person.

I have no problem with the packers, in fucking March, pushing him for a decision on whether he'll come back or not. They have a draft to prepare for, decisions to make that are predicated on Favre's return. He needs to suck it up, stop crying about "getting pressured into a decision he wasn't ready to make" and deal.

I mean, if the Packers were like "sure, come back, be the backup bitch" or "sure come back and start, we'll give you one more year" that would be fine too, but I have no problem with the approach they are taking. Everyone else gets the excitement (and often disappointment) of a new QB - last time I remember another QB was Don Majkowski, and while the Magic Man owned face...I was like 9.

[Akiyama]

I'm a shameless Wisconsin fan, but I'll let Rivals.com speak for the "big step down":However, they play in a row @Fresno State (Rivals.com preseason #22), @Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State in games 3-7 this year. Oh boy.

Well, I was just looking at their schedule, because I couldn't remember their huge problems. I think I found it. What the hell was with their 2006 schedule? I mean.. besides @Michigan (which they lost 27-13), who the hell did the play other than a decent Arkansas with no passing game? Penn State was 9-4 that season...so I guess they count? 2007 was a lot better though in terms of schedule with Illinois being good, Penn State being decent (though you blew them out), then you played Ohio State and Michigan, splitting that series and finished with a loss to Tennessee. I can't stop with that since it'd look like I'm avoiding the fact that they beat Auburn in 2005 (24-10 in a score that should've been like 41-10 really), so eh. 10-3 that year was good, but again... other than Michigan (who you beat) and Penn State (who destroyed you).. the schedule is a tad weak.

I'd say this year it's Ohio State and Wisconsin in the Big 10. Can you really narrow it down to two teams in the SEC? I doubt it. LSU's always there, Auburn might be with their new offense, Alabama has a year under Saban and it generally takes him a year to get a program going, Georgia is gonna be REALLY good, but has a murderous schedule, Florida has God... I mean Tebow (I'm an Auburn fan), and then there's Tennessee under the radar. It's like that almost every year. D: That's the only thing about the SEC. It's so hard to predict, and while we've had the last two national championships, I feel we'd have more if the competition wasn't rough year in and year out. I wish for one season, one of our top schools could go to the Big 10 or Big East. That'd be a blast.

Also, archi, Rivals.com has Auburn at #7. While I'm a die-hard Auburn fan, I'm not biased enough to think they are REALLY #7. There's no way in hell with a new offensive coordinator, new defensive coordinator, a BRAND NEW OFFENSE, and two brand new QBs... should we be #7. I just don't see it. Top 15 maybe, because we're always there, but not Top 10. D:

[Tyche]

Trey Wingo gave the best quote I've yet to hear on the Favre situation so far. As someone who could really care less, I thought this was spot on. Not verbatim, but best I can recall...

"Ask the Miami Dolphins how they 'moved on' since Marino quit. Ask the Denver Broncos how well they have done since they 'moved on' from Elway. The guy who has #1 by his name in every statistical category that matters wants to play on your team...what's with the indecision?"

To me, it's real simple. Who gives me the best chance to win now? If Green Bay was rebuilding, I could understand, but they aren't.

[Plow]

@ Plow

The Chiefs team that had Trent Green playing the season of his life and Priest Holmes broke the TD record, and Gonzalez was...well, Gonzalez? I'm sure the o-line helped that flourish, but it wasn't the only reason. They had a QB and a RB having career years. Being "absolutely 100% just because of the o-line" is absurd. Ignore this if you are talking about the few really good season under schottenheimer where they had HoFer Marcus Allen and sported one of the best defenses in the league.

Wow, you just listed all the things created by the offensive line and credited them to the other people. Priest had 1 thousand yard season out of 3 behind the line Jamal Lewis ran for 2000 yards with.

I hate to break it to you, but the tight end is a part of the offensive line.

And lastly, Green's passer rating was utterly and completely due to having an amazing oline and fullback, and an extremely patient running back who used that amazing line to the best of its potential for his physical capability, as well as a tight end that's open on 99.99999% of plays where he runs routes and catches everything near him. Their wide receivers were an embarassment to the game of football, all he did was throw short passes wide to priest, over the middle to gonzolez, and throw-away dropped passes when one of those 2 wasn't available.

Re: Aaron Rodgers: So were being unfair by pointing out that he's came in in 2 significant spots and come out injured both times, yet you think it's fair to say he'll be the next Tony Romo because of his play in 1 game...Totally fair!

In order to be the next Tony Romo he'd have to be a nobody who was never expected to be anything, you're talking about a guy that was a potential #1 pick that just happened to get picked by a team that still had one of the best qb ever to play the game.

As far as the injury thing, he broke his foot in one game, and sprained a hamstring in practice. That's all I can find about injuries on him at all. He also played the entire 2nd half of the game where he broke his foot in spite of the injury...

Re Favre: You have to be anti-Favre or completely oblivious to his mindset. He was willing to go to Tampa...you think that Favre thinks he automatically makes that team a championship contender. He has a better shot in green bay. Favre wants to play, it's as simple as that. Maybe he wants to be choosey about his teams, but he's obviously willing to play for teams that aren't favorites to win. Have you watched any of his recent interviews, because your point of view and reality seem to be complete opposites.

Uh, what? Saying Favre wants to come back because he wants to actually win makes me anti-Favre? What's next I'm anti-American for thinking Rodgers will do well?

Cuz, you know, Tampa isn't a playoff team or anything... And Gruden has never had success with old experienced quarterbacks...

[archibaldcrane]

@Tyche - That's all fine and good, but Favre has pissed off too many people with his whiny emo bullshit, and now he needs to pay. And if we go 8-8 and miss the playoffs instead of going 10-6 and lose in the first round to the Cowboys...

...so fucking be it. He must pay.

[Tyche]

If I were the Packers, this is what I'd do. Aaron Rodgers, you want to start? Fine, see you later. You'll get more value for Rodgers on the open market than Favre. You have a great college rookie that Favre can spend the next 2 years grooming. I just feel that the Packers seem to think they have some kind of obligation to Rodgers. They don't. First round picks bust, they get cut. Get some value out of a player that you thought you'd use but didn't. You accomplish two things. You at least get value for a QB. You have the best QB starting, and this QB can now groom your future franchise QB.

[archibaldcrane]

Favre has no interest in grooming shit. It's widely reported the chilly reception he gave to Rodgers, he doesn't give a fuck about the Packers future. Shipping off Rodgers now would be a fucking disaster. You're crazy. The Packers have no problem letting an NFL-quality QB (see: Hasselbeck) sit for years on their bench. They -like- only carrying two QBs on the roster. Giving a guy 3-4 years of 2nd team reps in the system is the way it -should- work - this "hey let's take that guy out of college and just toss his shit in there and see what happens" is what teams who suck do out of panic. Develop your QBs properly and let them play when their time comes. Shipping Rodgers would be just plum retarded.

[Plow]

If I were the Packers, this is what I'd do. Aaron Rodgers, you want to start? Fine, see you later. You'll get more value for Rodgers on the open market than Favre. You have a great college rookie that Favre can spend the next 2 years grooming. I just feel that the Packers seem to think they have some kind of obligation to Rodgers. They don't. First round picks bust, they get cut. Get some value out of a player that you thought you'd use but didn't. You accomplish two things. You at least get value for a QB. You have the best QB starting, and this QB can now groom your future franchise QB.

ROFL.,........... HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA


Taking a guy who's been outperformed by your backup every time he's come in recently for 1 more year over what you clearly believe *IS* your new, fully groomed, CURRENT franchise qb and getting some draft picks or some shit, when your team quite literally has no other needs at all.

True brilliance.


Did it really, truly, never occur to you that they honestly believe the best quarterback on the team is already the starter?


What do you have against Rodgers, seriously? I've said nothing bad in any way shape or form about Favre, in the least, and you call me anti-Favre, what is this shit of bashing all over Rodgers and acting like he's some trash they have no use for?

[Akiyama]

IIRC, Favre didn't mind the Packers as a team, but hated the head office for some of the decisions they made. Right? I'm not 100% sure as I've tried to avoid this Favre shit, and it's downright impossible.

@Plow HAHAHAH What? Outperformed? He came in for an injured Favre in the Dallas game. Also, I don't think we have anything against Rodgers. It's just.. oh, I don't know. For a team not in rebuilding mode, why the fuck would you want your starter, who's thrown 59 passes BY THE WAY, to replace a guy who's #1 in almost every category that matters, and is coming off one of his best seasons to date? Maybe the question shouldn't be "What do you have against Rodgers", but more of.. what do you have against Favre? He shit in your cereal in the morning or something?

[Plow]

IIRC, Favre didn't mind the Packers as a team, but hated the head office for some of the decisions they made. Right? I'm not 100% sure as I've tried to avoid this Favre shit, and it's downright impossible.

Same thing as Sanders except without the extreme hatred of the people and the being treated like utter shit. He was just upset because he didn't feel they were building a team to win *right now* in the waning years of his career.

[Akiyama]

Same thing as Sanders except without the extreme hatred of the people and the being treated like utter shit. He was just upset because he didn't feel they were building a team to win *right now* in the waning years of his career.

If I remember right, besides not building a team to win, he just didn't feel like playing anymore. He also didn't say "I know I can play, but I'm mentally tired". Barry Sanders just basically said "Fuck the NFL, I'm out." You could tell Favre wanted to play. Hell, all the experts said he'd be back. I still think the front office for the Packers had something to do with it, really and fans just don't want to admit that their front office fucked up.

[Tyche]

Look, don't be retarded. Favre isn't turning the Tampa Bay Bucs into super bowl contenders. He knows that. You know that. I know that. And I say your anti-favre, but maybe you're just a complete idiot. It's one or the other, because you are making obvious superfluous comments that just aren't true regarding him. Almost everything you've said pertaining to his mindset is against the grain of the interviews he's conducted. You said you haven't been paying attention to all of it, maybe you should, because it's making your arguments uneducated.

You know, potential #1 QB picks doesn't mean a whole lot about the quality of player. ASk Tim Couch and Ryan Leaf. If were talking quality right now, Favre is proven and has played a million games without missing, Rodgers injured and didn't start the game.

As far as the whole KC bullshit, you said the o-line wins you 13 games. It didn't. Defense helped, 2 players playing their best seasons and a HoF TE. If it was all o-line, they'd of done a little better than not even getting above .500 the season before and after. Say what you want, Holmes was a good fucking back pre-injury, If you can't realize that, you, I don't know, it's just amazingly stupid.

[Tyche]

@archi, I agree it would be disastrous to do it now, but I think it would have been the best move from the beginning.