NFL Preseason Thread *Predictions/Discussions*

[Deejay]

Not going to argue Chatman's fantasy value. But he is a very servicable backup. He's got that crazy running style, akin to Marion Barber. Not saying they're the same player, but Chatman runs "angry" and I love to see that in football players.

[Mizango]

The bills, like arizona, are my sleeper playoff picks. I absolutely agree on Cleveland under 9. Mizango said that Dallas sucks (arguably most talent on one team in the NFL), so if he wants to bet at 2:1, I'll go at Vegas odds.

Nah I'm just a hater, I'm not retarded. Best regular season team of all time is what the Cowboys represent to me. I like the Braves analogy, they get to the playoffs year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year and having to hear repeatedly that "this is the year" is wearing thin.

At some point you have to either shit or get off of the pot.


Edit: I will take those odds on the Dolphins winning 7 games lol. They will be lucky to win 4. Sad thing is I like the Dolphins, I'm just keeping it realistic.


Edited: for Deejay.

[Deejay]

Best regular season team of all time is what the Cowboys represent to me. I like the Braves analogy, they get to the playoffs year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year and having to hear repeatedly that "this is the year" is wearing thin.

At some point you have to either shit or get off of the pot.


Edited: for Deejay.

Year after year? They made the playoffs what, two straight years now? I don't know what rock you've been under but the Cowboys have been NFC East bottom feeders for the better part of this decade. Iirc, they won the NFC East for the first time in 9-10 years last season.

Edit: The Cowboys went 9-7 in 06, and 13-3 in 07. The last time they made the playoffs since then was 03. This post makes no sense.

[Mizango]

Not talking about "making" it to the playoffs, I was referring to actually having a higher score than the other team at the end of the game when they are there.

[Akiyama]

Really, my analogy to the Braves isn't founded solely on the Playoffs, because really. What team is out there other than teams like the Yankees (who didn't even do it) that won 14 straight divisional titles?

[Headspace]

Grant will get his contract; it won't be a monster though. If the guy waited a year and had a good showing, he could get a fucking huge contract in 09.

I think Cincy is already done, though. I read Odom got injured already lol.

Sprained foot, he's good.

Plus we got a fucking healthy Chris Perry, been waiting for that shit for 3 years.

[Deejay]

Really, my analogy to the Braves isn't founded solely on the Playoffs, because really. What team is out there other than teams like the Yankees (who didn't even do it) that won 14 straight divisional titles?

As far as NFL goes? The Eagles. The Eagles are the NFL's Braves. Their fans ALWAYS think they're in it and they won like 5 straight NFC East titles.

The Cowboys however were a piss poor team since Emmit left. The Tuna only resurrected the franchise 3 years ago.

[Plow]

The Rogers/Favre thing is such a weird situation. Rogers is going to be damn good, if you don't believe that you probably weren't watching when he did actually get to play. Injury is the only potential thing to stop him, if he's healthy with 16 games of experience and the team they have, they are a legitimate super bowl contender.

And therein lies the problem. See, if Favre thought that Rogers wasn't going to have a chance to win big right away, he wouldn't have the major issue he has right now: what if they win another super bowl and he spends the rest of his life knowing it could have been him?

Also, honestly, if anybody else important in the Packers organization didn't think Rogers was ready for that kind of performance, they'd be begging Favre to come back. That team is WAY too good in today's salary capped NFL to have anything even remotely resembling a "rebuilding" or "starting over" year. They'd beg Favre, and if he didn't come back (which you know he would if asked even if he wasn't already) they'd make a move, you quite simply cannot just sit on a team like that now.

Anyway I think a few games into the season the Packers will be the odds on favorite to win the NFC, provided they get that big Sunday night win at home against Dallas. (which I think they will, obviously)

Both teams are going to want that game real bad, should be a hell of a show.

[Akiyama]

Isn't it Rodgers? Rodgers wasn't THAT good in the limited 59 pass attemps he made. Around 58-59% completion rate, about 330+ yards, a TD and an INT. Nothing that would say "Get rid of Favre and we'll be just as good." So yeah, I don't really get it. I do know that through all of this, it's tough in general. What Favre did could be looked at negatively... that he couldn't make up his mind to play and retired early. Then again, he's made the case that he was pushed out somewhat, which I can understand as well. Either way, I just hope it ends soon because I'm sick of it.

In my opinion, I think the Packers feel that Favre may be on the downside of his career. If you thought that though, who'd think he would put up the numbers he did last year? That'd be MVP worthy if it weren't for the Brady+Moss connection. I don't think Aaron Rodgers is as good as some think though. IMO, Ryan Brohm is a better passer than Rodgers anyway.

I don't think the Packers will be the favorites. In this salary cap era, I think the Cowboys are the best team for the buck right now in the NFC. I've never been a huge Dallas fan (was a 49ers fan back during that time period), and I always wanted them to beat the Cowboys. You can't argue with what they have right now.

[Tyche]

I think that 90% of what Plow just said is absolutely absurd.

1st. Yeah, I watched when Rogers play. Injured both times I watched. Amazing piece of glass you have there in the back field. There's no way, no fucking way in hell that they are going to get anything remotely resembling 13-3 this year. If they make the playoffs, they'll be playing on wild card weekend against a wild card team (they certainly aren't making the playoffs as a wild-card). If you think Favre is sick now because he thinks Rogers will take the team to the superbowl, you are absoutely nuts. Favre is sick because he wants to play football, he's begging for a trade out of green bay, if he was sick over the packers potential, he'd beg for his job there back. Quite frankly, from that Gretta interview, it seems he'd rather play elsewhere, hence begging for a release. He's had a falling out with the front office for a while, and hated the move to McCarthy. Now Ted Thompson is trying frantically to pick up at least something for Favre and refuses to release him. A few games into the season I don't think they'll be at .500, much less be a super bowl favorite.

[archibaldcrane]

One thing people need to realize is this...

The Packers overperformed last season. The NFC wasn't that good, the Packers went through like 4 RBs before Grant came out of nowhere and did well, they were young and energetic but not...-that-...talented. Favre finally benefited from (started listening to) better coaching and was less of a liability, etc. etc.

The Vikings are the Vegas favorites in the division by a half-game at the moment. No matter what happens with the team, the blame or success will be placed on Rodgers and that's kind of a shame (unless he really does play awesome or terribly, neither of which I expect). A game manager-type QB could've taken the Packers to the NFC championship game last year with the way the team played, honestly. If Rodgers can manage well, and the team plays as well or better than last year (more experience, not really major injuries/departures as far as I know) they should be back in the playoffs. I just worry the team will show it's lack of actual talent this year and it will be a letdown, regardless as to how Rodgers plays.

[Deejay]

I said it last year and I'll say it again, Ryan Grant is overrated. I should have put him as my bust because he's going to have on hell of a year if Rodgers can't prove he'll hit the deep throw. Favre was always a threat down field and Grant was a HUGE beneficiary to it. He's a crazy runner when he has holes, but he won't have them with 8 in the box.

[Plow]

I think that 90% of what Plow just said is absolutely absurd.

1st. Yeah, I watched when Rogers play. Injured both times I watched. Amazing piece of glass you have there in the back field. There's no way, no fucking way in hell that they are going to get anything remotely resembling 13-3 this year. If they make the playoffs, they'll be playing on wild card weekend against a wild card team (they certainly aren't making the playoffs as a wild-card). If you think Favre is sick now because he thinks Rogers will take the team to the superbowl, you are absoutely nuts. Favre is sick because he wants to play football, he's begging for a trade out of green bay, if he was sick over the packers potential, he'd beg for his job there back. Quite frankly, from that Gretta interview, it seems he'd rather play elsewhere, hence begging for a release. He's had a falling out with the front office for a while, and hated the move to McCarthy. Now Ted Thompson is trying frantically to pick up at least something for Favre and refuses to release him. A few games into the season I don't think they'll be at .500, much less be a super bowl favorite.

Didn't the Giants teach you anything?

Never, ever, ever, underestimate the importance of the lines, both offensive and defensive.

Their ground game was so-so for the first few weeks... but Favre had all the time in the world. Not just that, but his recievers actually got their asses open and caught the damn ball, something we haven't really seen from GB since Driver's big injury a few years ago.

Wynn actually played pretty damn well though before getting hurt, Jackson not so much. The reality of the situation is that they had 2 rookies and a guy who'd been on a practice squad before a non-football injury took him out for a year and never played a game. They eventually got going though, even with 2 of them getting injured. Put all 3 of them back in, healthy, and more experienced as well as better prepared to play in the offense, and, yeah. They have a great defense all around, great recievers, a fantastic oline, great runners, and a potentially great quarterback. They might not be named Tony Romo or Terrell Owens, but they're an extremely good team.


Honestly they're pretty much the Cowboys when Romo took over except deeper, 3 top notch WR (Jordy Nelson singlehandedly allows me to pretty much guarantee RoDgers will be successful barring injury) and a TE instead of 1 and a TE, 3 RB rather than 2, a defense that's pretty much just sick in every spot and doesn't just fold when 1 cb isn't at 100%, I could go on. Compare position for position the 2 teams and the Packers pretty much have the advantage everywhere outside of Newman vs whichever corner you want to pick, while on the other side whoever is there is a hell of a lot better, and Romo, then ask yourself where was Romo a couple years ago?

Honestly I haven't been paying attention to the Favre stuff lately, but I bet the possibility of seeing his team win a championship and knowing it could have been him weighed heavily on him. From the point of making the decision to come back to the packers, it's just being in that frame of mind to play that would convince him to go elsewhere.


Lastly, you're talking about the Green Bay Packers telling Brett fuggin Favre they don't want him. He's not just some pretty good quarterback that may or may not have lost his form, he is *THE* Packer franchise for the last 10 years. The man is the definition of living legend, and his most recent performance has been basically the best he's had. You would flat out have to be just plain stupid, which the buildup of their team into its current state quite definitively proves they are not, to refuse a player who took you damn near to the top in such a pivotal role, if you weren't supremely confident in the probability of success behind the decision.

If they have a bad year without Favre right now they are the laughing stock of the nfl, and they're well aware of this, and made the decision knowing this full well. It also will cost them a hell of a lot of money if a nation of fans is disappointed by a bad decision by their team ruin a potentially amazing season while watching their hero finish his career somewhere else, something nobody ever thought would happen.

Look at it this way, Favre's not asking to be released so he can go sign with the Dolphins.

[Weltall]

Does Cincy have linebackers this year? lol

They aren't stopping anyone on defense. I'll be up there for the TN game.

[Akiyama]

What's a linebacker?

I imagine that'd what they'd say when asked that question. All they need is Chad Johnson yanno!

[Tyche]

Didn't the Giants teach you anything?

Never, ever, ever, underestimate the importance of the lines, both offensive and defensive.

Their ground game was so-so for the first few weeks... but Favre had all the time in the world. Not just that, but his recievers actually got their asses open and caught the damn ball, something we haven't really seen from GB since Driver's big injury a few years ago.

Wynn actually played pretty damn well though before getting hurt, Jackson not so much. The reality of the situation is that they had 2 rookies and a guy who'd been on a practice squad before a non-football injury took him out for a year and never played a game. They eventually got going though, even with 2 of them getting injured. Put all 3 of them back in, healthy, and more experienced as well as better prepared to play in the offense, and, yeah. They have a great defense all around, great recievers, a fantastic oline, great runners, and a potentially great quarterback. They might not be named Tony Romo or Terrell Owens, but they're an extremely good team.


Honestly they're pretty much the Cowboys when Romo took over except deeper, 3 top notch WR (Jordy Nelson singlehandedly allows me to pretty much guarantee RoDgers will be successful barring injury) and a TE instead of 1 and a TE, 3 RB rather than 2, a defense that's pretty much just sick in every spot and doesn't just fold when 1 cb isn't at 100%, I could go on. Compare position for position the 2 teams and the Packers pretty much have the advantage everywhere outside of Newman vs whichever corner you want to pick, while on the other side whoever is there is a hell of a lot better, and Romo, then ask yourself where was Romo a couple years ago?

Honestly I haven't been paying attention to the Favre stuff lately, but I bet the possibility of seeing his team win a championship and knowing it could have been him weighed heavily on him. From the point of making the decision to come back to the packers, it's just being in that frame of mind to play that would convince him to go elsewhere.


Lastly, you're talking about the Green Bay Packers telling Brett fuggin Favre they don't want him. He's not just some pretty good quarterback that may or may not have lost his form, he is *THE* Packer franchise for the last 10 years. The man is the definition of living legend, and his most recent performance has been basically the best he's had. You would flat out have to be just plain stupid, which the buildup of their team into its current state quite definitively proves they are not, to refuse a player who took you damn near to the top in such a pivotal role, if you weren't supremely confident in the probability of success behind the decision.

If they have a bad year without Favre right now they are the laughing stock of the nfl, and they're well aware of this, and made the decision knowing this full well. It also will cost them a hell of a lot of money if a nation of fans is disappointed by a bad decision by their team ruin a potentially amazing season while watching their hero finish his career somewhere else, something nobody ever thought would happen.

Look at it this way, Favre's not asking to be released so he can go sign with the Dolphins.

First, Is it that damn hard to condense and argument into maybe 2 damn paragraphs? Second, I don't google my arguments, so there's no need to correct my spelling of names. You know what I'm saying and I know what I'm saying.

Now, to hit points individually. The Giants were an anomaly. The Vikings have lines that are probably better than the packers. You build a team from the inside out, but line play isn't going to win you 13 games, and neither is RoDDDDDDDDDDgers.

They have potentially a great QB....You asked if we had watched him play, so I have to ask you, have you seen him play? Really? And you still think that?

Your view on Favre is skewed. Well, not so much Favre, but the Green bay front office. Ted Thomspon knows that Favre would be better than roDDDDDgers, that's why he told him not to report to camp to compete for his job. He also knows that he can't bench Favre for Rodddddgers.

Funny you brought up the Dolphins. Favre has a home in Miami and it was speculated that maybe he'd head that way. Favre is a competitor. he wants to play and teach.

I got lost in all the glorious absurdity of your post, so I may not have hit all my points, but off to work I go.

[Mizango]

Does Cincy have linebackers this year? lol

They aren't stopping anyone on defense. I'll be up there for the TN game.

lol No. Odell Thurman keeps getting suspended for violating the substance abuse policy, I really like him and hope he gets his alcoholism under control and the Panthers signed their other linebacker Landon Johnson in the off season. Didn't they lose Justin Smith to the 49ers? David Pollack had to retired because of that neck/spine injury he's having.

I don't see Cincy stopping ANYONE on defense sadly. Much like last year they will have a few 55-48 games and just hope to out score opponents.

[Deejay]

Now, to hit points individually. The Giants were an anomaly. The Vikings have lines that are probably better than the packers. You build a team from the inside out, but line play isn't going to win you 13 games, and neither is RoDDDDDDDDDDgers.

Football games are won in the trenches, whether you like it or not. Good line play isn't going to win you 13 games, but you won't win 3 games without it. The Giants held one of the best offenses of all time to 14 points (Their lowest total for the season) because they couldn't stop their line.

I remember hearing Strahan say that it takes the average NFL Quarterback 2.5-3.5 seconds to go through his progressions and make a throw. If the D-line can get to the QB in 3, the offense can't do anything.

[Tyche]

The Giants were an anomoly because, other than defense (which we all knew were special about 4 games into the season), they weren't a superbowl caliber team. Manning was inconsistant throughout the regular season. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Manning went all the way to the superbowl before he threw a pick in the playoffs. My point being is the reg season and post season Giants were night and day. Fucking David Tyree who had like 4 fucking receptions all season was incremental in the win over the pats. Steve Smith caught twice as many balls for like twice as many yards in the post season than the regular season...he almost equaled his regular season stats in the superbowl alone. All of that going on at one time is an anomoly. Line play was certainly a huge boost, especially in the superbowl, but c'mon, that offensive efficiency was fucking huge, and amazing.

[Deejay]

The Giants were an anomoly because, other than defense (which we all knew were special about 4 games into the season), they weren't a superbowl caliber team. Manning was inconsistant throughout the regular season. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Manning went all the way to the superbowl before he threw a pick in the playoffs. My point being is the reg season and post season Giants were night and day. Fucking David Tyree who had like 4 fucking receptions all season was incremental in the win over the pats. Steve Smith caught twice as many balls for like twice as many yards in the post season than the regular season...he almost equaled his regular season stats in the superbowl alone. All of that going on at one time is an anomoly. Line play was certainly a huge boost, especially in the superbowl, but c'mon, that offensive efficiency was fucking huge, and amazing.

So much wrong with this post, I simply don't know where to begin.

A.) The Giants weren't favorites, but they sure as hell weren't an "anomoly". Going into the season, the one HUGE question hanging over the organization was whether or not they could get consistency out of Eli. The pieces however were there.

Seriously, look at their offense. Top 15 WR, Top 5 TE, a good #2 WR, 3 capable 1,000 yard RB's, and a stout offensive line. The Giants had one of the most complete, top to bottom offenses in the league last year. What part of that isn't "superbowl caliber"? Give me a break lol.

Add that with the best pass rush since Idk when.

It's not like they all of a sudden just started winning, they've made it to the playoffs 3 straight seasons coming in. The team was always good enough, they were just lacking the experience at the QB position. Once they got it they started winning against good teams.

B.) David Tyree/Steve Smith missed a combined 17 games during the regular season. No shit their season stats won't compare to their Superbowl performances.... they never played. It doesn't all of a sudden mean they don't know how to catch a ball when it's thrown to them. And Steve Smith was a 2nd round pick out of USC, so you can't just assume that he's not a big game player. He's not exactly a nobody.

C.) An offense cannot be efficient if their line isn't blocking for them. Tom Brady was scoring touchdowns left and right all fucking year. It was like he were playing a video game he made it look so easy. Fastforward to the Superbowl, and the patriots had a whopping 7 points with about 4 minutes left in the game. This was the same team that NFL players were whining about because no one could stop them. What did the Giants do that no other team could? Oh, just consistently put Tom Brady on his ass. Last I checked you can't throw a 50 yard bomb from the fetal position.