Police Linebacker

[Beckwin]

"protest isn't protest"

yeah, I can see why you like to chime in and say "ur wrong" and then hide behind "well I don't discuss politics on the internet."

in terms of legality, and even on principles of free speech in this country, protest isn't defined or defended by the cause but by the action. the cause can socially determine how seriously the public will take it, and influences how effective protesting can be in obtaining results, but as far as legality goes cause doesn't matter.

wanna know why they don't need permits/what they do is considered legal w/o a permit? it's a group of people going for a bike ride together on public streets. riding bikes on streets is legal, and it's a loosely organized group of people doing it together. how do you regulate that? pedestrians don't have normal clearance to walk in streets, and vehicles are more tightly held to speed limits and would be subject to traffic flow. the CM groups that circle around in intersections are subject to ticketing and I won't argue that, but the idea is that bikes are allowed on streets and in groups they can stand out/be safer.

[Beckwin]

Protests that make me late for work cost me very real dollars out of my pocket. I have a really hard time swallowing your argument that all protests weigh equally on merit and that I shouldn't feel satisfaction when the obnoxious ones with horrible execution on a right they already have get their comeuppance.

How you get your message across and what that message is does in fact allow for one protest to be more valuable than the other. You're acting like all protesters are sacrosanct and I should celebrate the fact that they make me late for work, clog traffic and basically ruin my day.

parades, sporting events, large concerts, etc all cause traffic delays that can make you late for work or whatever else, boo-fucking-hoo.

[Tyche]

I'll never say "you're wrong", then go off an hide. I don't argue politics (I rarely ever even comment on politics unless it's linked to another story) because I don't, I don't want to. It's like going through school for psych for 5 years and then hating it. You would be happy to never discuss it again. When I say you're wrong, I'll argue to the end. So I don't get that comment at all, it's just frivolous.

[Demosthenes11]

you argue with beckwin, you are either:
a) a neo-con
b) a biggot/racist/sexist
c) a&b

[Tyche]

Beckwin is an asshole because he doesn't participate in sports threads. Beckwin, just because I went to college doesn't oblige me to entertain you with my knowledge. If I tell you that your wrong and call you out, you can damn well bet I'll be there til the end to argue with you. So go play in your silly political threads and I'll dance about in my sports threads.

[Beckwin]

you argue with beckwin, you are either:
a) a neo-con
b) a biggot/racist/sexist
c) a&b

typical neocon victimization propaganda

[Correction]

parades, sporting events, large concerts, etc all cause traffic delays that can make you late for work or whatever else, boo-fucking-hoo.

You gasp in bewilderment how anyone could be happy that an asshole protester gets his face pushed in. I'm explaining my lack of sympathy for his 'noble cause.' All you seem to want to do is pick fights in this thread because very few people see it through your dewy eyes.

[Beckwin]

you can have your sentiments about that protest group, but the point here is that a cop was the one pushing face in and he attempted to legitimize it through a falsified report as well. if you wanna go punch a protester to show how you feel then go for it, but implying that it's cool that a cop did it just because you don't like the protest is fucking lame/weak/retarded.

[Correction]

I don't like Andy Dick either, so when I heard Jon Lovitz beat the shit out of him in a club I laughed.

Forgive me for laughing at things that are funny. That hit was hilarious, especially with the biker's scandalized reaction.

[Beckwin]

Nice correction.

[Bingbong]

parades, sporting events, large concerts, etc all cause traffic delays that can make you late for work or whatever else, boo-fucking-hoo.

All of those events are announced.
Huge difference between knowing your local ball-club has a home game that night versus douche's-on-wheels screwing up traffic.

[Kurp]

It would have been better if the cop stuck a stick in that guy's spokes.

Anyways, you really sound like an asshole in almost every post, Beckwin. I hope its just an internet thing.

[jmc]

So I pulled someone over, run the plate etc....

Put on my hat, open my door and BAM!

Bike messenger slams directly into my door.

...............

.....................

Fucker broke my door!

(He was fun, bike wasnt)

[Beckwin]

It would have been better if the cop stuck a stick in that guy's spokes.

Anyways, you really sound like an asshole in almost every post, Beckwin. I hope its just an internet thing.

...and then you take off your internet glasses and realize I'm not the one cheering on police brutality.

but wait this is the internet so to be a cool kid I should be posting "LOLZ! dirty ass hippy faggot protester got what he deserved, that cop is a badass I mean did you see that hit? pfff, that cyclefag needs to learn what real protest is anyway- he should be making longcat signs instead of theoretically making me late for work. fucking nigger." How's that work?

[Beckwin]

All of those events are announced.
Huge difference between knowing your local ball-club has a home game that night versus douche's-on-wheels screwing up traffic.

I think these CM things are regular monthly things :/

[ferigor]

wanna know why they don't need permits/what they do is considered legal w/o a permit? it's a group of people going for a bike ride together on public streets.

Do you seriously think they are just riding bikes around on the streets? If that was the case, more power to them. You see, because of Critical Mass, a lot of othe bike organizations have sprung up. They promote responsible riding and sharing the road with motorists. Hmmm, what a novel concept. Instead of riding around like ass hats, they ride around like responsible cyclists, obeying traffic laws.
Thats where my problem is with Critical Mass: They break the law. Any protest where the law is broken should be stopped. By all means, everyone's opinion deserves to be heard, but, well, lets just refer to Ye Olde 1st Amendment:

First Amendment – Establishment Clause, Free Exercise Clause; freedom of speech, of the press, and of assembly; right to petition
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

CM is not "peaceably assembling", they aren't protected by the 1st amendment. You can try to argue that the group isn't breaking any laws, but then I ask you to refer to the wiki link I posted earlier and look at some of the terms CM uses to describe ways in which they disrupt traffic. Though they are not a premeditated organization and I'm sure you will argue that "Corking" and "Cycloning" just happen as they bike merrily on their way, I will note that if someone is walking down some random street and they happen to murder some random person, they are still tried for murder. So should CM cyclists be charged for breaking traffic laws? I think so. (Oh my god... did I just compare murder to driving a bike around in circles in an intersection? Yep, I did. Protest = Protest, Crime = Crime. I did really good on my SATs!)
Everyone agrees that cyclist deserve the same rights and responsibilities to travel on the roads, right? Everyone agrees that the officer used too much force, right? The argument stems from the fact that you argue that the officer had no right to take the cyclist down, where as we can't understand why you think the cyclist was simply an innocent bystander. Maybe he is just a simple guy there peacefully protesting and is guilty by assocation and got caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. Maybe he was harassing motorists and cops wanted to take him off the road.

Let me run this past you. If a motorist is running away from police, in say a high speed chase, they perform whats called a Pit Maneuver to get the car off the road. In this situation, the officer positions their car so their front wheel is approximately by the offending autos rear wheel, then he turns into the car and t-bones it. Usually they try to pin it against a stationary object or get another officer to box them in. Its pretty sweet, and the reason I watch Real Stories of the Highway Patrol. They even use it in not so high speed chases, just whenever they can not get the driver to stop.
Lets say there's a cyclist going, who's refusing to stop for an officer of the law (which is against the law by the way), how does the officer stop the cyclist? I don't know how you guys think it happens, but what I think is a large officer (around 250lbs so he has some stopping power) is wrapped in pillows or bubble wrap (perhaps pillows filled with bubble wrap) and then he just gets in the way, the cyclist bounces off of him and slowly stops because of the law of inertia, and nobody gets hurt at all.

Just to note, I'm not against cyclists, I'm against CM. I am not against protesting, I am pro-peacful protest. I am not saying that the officer wasn't in the wrong, I am not saying that the cyclist was wrong. I am saying that if a cyclist is disobeying the law, it is an officers right and responsibility to maintain the safety of the public at large by dismounting said cyclist.

[Beckwin]

you're trying to equate Officer Dickhead's tackle to a high speed chase, but a high speed chase entails that the person being chased has committed a serious crime. This particular CM rider was pretty much arbitrarily picked out by the cop for no reason, and the cop made no effort to detain the guy reasonably- when you pull a motorist over for a simple traffic violation, you don't do it with a Pit Maneuver. The officer didn't even try to flag the guy down, just straight up tackled him.

The basic group riding itself is not illegal. Any obstruction of intersections and what not is a traffic misdemeanor, and I'm not arguing that those tickets shouldn't be issued- I'm sure the CM riders expect them to. There's a concept central to protest called civil disobedience- you do something, peacefully, that's against the law to make a point and garner attention. however when it comes to police using force, the force has to be justified. In this particular case, the force was clearly not justified, and on top of that the officer falsified his report to clear himself and falsly charge the cyclist of crimes he did not commit.

[ferigor]

Also, you compare CM rides to parades and what not. Unfortunately, parades and things like that require permits (I work permits for a living, so I know a little bit about them, though not necessarily permits for parades). When doing something where you have to shut down streets takes approval and coordinating. The events are scheduled weeks to months in advance, the appropriate authorities notified (Street Department and Bridge Department, Utilities including Power, Water, Sewer, Cable, City Police (State police if the route encompasses any state routes)) and steps taken to make sure there is a viable route around that will be able to handle the flow of traffic. Permits for things like this usually cost a lot, because city engineers get paid pretty well. In New York, depending on routing and the size of the event, I'd estimate the cost of permits and fees for said event to be somewhere in the neighborhood of $3000~5000. Of course, CM doesn't have a leader, or any formal organization so thats how they weasel out of having to do any of this stuff.

[Tyche]

In this particular case, the force was clearly not justified, and on top of that the officer falsified his report to clear himself and falsly charge the cyclist of crimes he did not commit.

Falsifying the police report was incredibly ignorant and cannot be justified, however, according to accounts and sources for the New York Post, the guy was weaving in and out of traffic and the police officer yelled at him to stop. When he obviously wasn't slowing down, the officer detained him.

[Bingbong]

Source: The Province, Vancouver area paper, July 27th, 2008.

"They hit the streets on the last Friday of each month, ostensibly to promote biking as a realistic form of transport. Cycling crowds as large as 3,000 gather at the downtown art gallery, then roll through downtown traffic en masse.

Intersections are blocked illegally, as a mile-long pack traverses city centre at peak inopportune moments. Typically, their leaders stop to ponder the meaning of it all atop the Lions Gate Bridge, holding riders still all the way back to the Park Drive overpass, while cars are made to idle in place behind.

That said, the group has no formal leadership, or none they'll admit to. No one to hold accountable for lack of permits or willful obstruction of traffic. No one to discuss the bizarre and confrontational behaviour seen on Critical Mass fringes.

Any number of these people drink or smoke dope as they roll along. Some ride naked. Others taunt frustrated motorists, swarming drivers stuck at crossings.

There are fistfights. Cars are damaged as bicycles scrape by on purpose, teaching "lessons" to those who dare voice an opinion about being forced to a stop."

That's not a protest, that is disruption, disturbing the peace, and causing mayhem.
Did doofus deserve to be tackled forcing a third and short at the 35? No, not really. But defending his actions are ridiculous. The fact that the organization he was riding with is mired in douche-baggery doesn't help his "cause" out.
Maybe if they did just protest, and didn't disrupt, they wouldn't have any more run-ins with cops (just reading bylines, they've had dustups in several cities both with police and other civilians - semi normal occurrence for these folks)