Teen falls 30ft; breaks his back, gets tasered 16 times by police.

[jmc]

My source of information is from having actually used drugs for many years. Are you going to sit there and seriously pretend that you know more about it than me based on what you learned in a classroom? Give me a fucking break. I know that you're a cop, and not a beat cop based on previous posts by you, but I seriously hope you're not in narcotics based on you defending this dude for saying something so retarded. Cocaine is not a trip, nor does it alter your mind enough to make you violent if you're not normally inclined towards it.

All drugs alter your mind in many different ways, I guess your years of drug abuse made you completely forget about what they do.

YETTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

Narcotics make you well... not think normally. So like situations ive been in before, and have been SHOT AT BEFORE. Walk up to a "known" narcotics user, who is under the influence.....and has some more (insert drug here) on his person. The person doesnt usually want to be caught....and what happens when they do not want to be caught? They run, they fight they do ANYTHING to get away.

[Kuya]

As much as i'd like to just say that the cops made a mistake and that it was just routine to taser someone who was non compliant even without all the information, i just can't bring myself to take lightly a 16 year old with a broken back lying on the floor getting tased by cops. Would i be wrong in hoping for some sort of punishment for the cops? Or am i just being reactionary?

[Shuemue]

And you've never dealt with american police, what makes you a fucking expert?

What does that have to do with knowing you obviously don't have a genuine understanding of how drugs can alter behaviour?

[Orph]

Im guessing most of you have never seen cops try to arrest a guy on pcp.

[Cyn]

What does that have to do with knowing you obviously don't have a genuine understanding of how drugs can alter behaviour?

I've been doing cocaine for 13 years buddy, and yet neither I, nor anyone I know has EVER attack anyone, much less even verbally abused a police officer, while under the influence.

And Orph... gtfo, watching 'Cops' does not make you some kind of expert.

[evilpaul]

I love how people are just throwing shit at the cops without all the information.

I'm sure he was tasered a few times but I doubt it was 19, the parents were probably exaggerating the number to draw sympathy from the public which apparently has worked.

As for why the cops even tased him to begin with if you've ever seen a cop video online or whatever they will always tase the person if the guy doesn't follow their directions like putting their hands behind their back or getting up and you can't possibly expect the cops to know the guy has a broken back when he's saying shit like kill cops.

I like how the guy's parents aren't to be believed and must be exaggerating, but the cops saying he was "mumbing incoherently" and yet understandably saying "kill cops" are to be taken at their word.

All drugs alter your mind in many different ways, I guess your years of drug abuse made you completely forget about what they do.

YETTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

Narcotics make you well... not think normally. So like situations ive been in before, and have been SHOT AT BEFORE. Walk up to a "known" narcotics user, who is under the influence.....and has some more (insert drug here) on his person. The person doesnt usually want to be caught....and what happens when they do not want to be caught? They run, they fight they do ANYTHING to get away.

Well, if police didn't lock people in rape room dungeons for the rest of their lives for having plant extracts that should cost a few dollars per pound, then they probably would be a bit more pleasant about being approached by people in blue costumes and jewelry, now wouldn't they?

[Correction]

I like how the guy's parents aren't to be believed and must be exaggerating, but the cops saying he was "mumbing incoherently" and yet understandably saying "kill cops" are to be taken at their word.

Clearly the truth lies somewhere in between, and until more information comes out I'd say the kid's dad and aunt aren't unbiased sources of information about their baby boy.

Well, if police didn't lock people in rape room dungeons for the rest of their lives for having plant extracts that should cost a few dollars per pound, then they probably would be a bit more pleasant about being approached by people in blue costumes and jewelry, now wouldn't they?

Because it's the cop's fault he has to arrest people who break the law, right? 'blue costumes and jewelry...'

I hope to god you never have to rely on a uniformed officer to save your life.

[Shuemue]

I've been doing cocaine for 13 years buddy, and yet neither I, nor anyone I know has EVER attack anyone, much less even verbally abused a police officer, while under the influence.

And Orph... gtfo, watching 'Cops' does not make you some kind of expert.

So because you and your friends are able to handle it, that means everyone can? You're fucking clueless.

Where have you spent those 13 years doing coke? Mummy and Daddy's basement? Sure as fuck hasn't been out in the real world.

[Orph]

I've been doing cocaine for 13 years buddy, and yet neither I, nor anyone I know has EVER attack anyone, much less even verbally abused a police officer, while under the influence.

And Orph... gtfo, watching 'Cops' does not make you some kind of expert.

STFU moron, ive personally seen my friends who are police officers need 7 people to get one person on pcp in handcuffs. You have no fucking clue what your talking about

[Kuya]

Just in case, pcp is not cocaine.

[Khamsin]

Cocaine is not a trip, nor does it alter your mind enough to make you violent if you're not normally inclined towards it.

So was he normally inclined towards it, or not?

Cops are damned if they do, damned if they don't.

I think people who hate cops need to direct their hatred in the appropriate directions. Cops can't help who they bust or for why, hate the lawmakers and politicians for that. Cops can help the way in which they bust someone, and can vary from abusive to polite inquiries to please join them for tea in the back of the cruiser.

Now, unfortunately, you are going to have bad cops who are on a power trip and enjoy playing the part of the law, forcing others to submit to them. You're also going to have cops who deal with situations forcibly not because they want to, but because they've been conditioned to by prior experiences.

Pretend for a moment that you're in this situation, having no more information than a caller who reported a random guy stumbling around the overpass. Personally, I would approach the man lying on the ground to offer my assistance... but that's only because I have never dealt with violent individuals before. I've never been assaulted or around anyone that made me uncomfortable enough to fear for my safety. As your average civilian, I haven't been conditioned to expect the worst and use extreme caution in every situation. Cops have, and thats why they tend to be a little excessive sometimes because they simply don't know what they're dealing with, and they've dealt with some scary shit before.

There's good cops, bad cops, good criminals, bad criminals... unfortunately, you have to assume the worst about each other because if you're too trusting, you'll just get kicked (or tased) in the balls. Just the way things are in the world.

[Orph]

Just in case, pcp is not cocaine.

I know that, but i didn't see anywhere in the article where cocaine was mentioned. Was just bringing up the point that certain drugs make certain people nearly impossible to detain.

[evilpaul]

Because it's the cop's fault he has to arrest people who break the law, right? 'blue costumes and jewelry...'

I hope to god you never have to rely on a uniformed officer to save your life.

All sorts of victimless crimes go on unpunished all the time. Yet, to hear a police officer tell it, they have a Sword of Damocles dangling over their head by a hair that will snap should they allow some terrible transgression against The Law to go unpunished. "Sorry, sir, I have to give you this ticket/arrest you for whatever." Right. Pure necessity.

And the police around here help me? They're crime historians when they aren't perpetrating crimes themselves.

I can rely on them to stop me more than a dozen times when I am completely sober, not violating any traffic laws, or doing anything other than driving down the street because I "was going so fast!" Driving 35 in a 35.

After the three questions: Where are you coming from? Where are you going? Have you had anything to drink tonight? I get some canned bullshit excuse as to why they stopped me, and sent on my way (they "just wanted to make sure I get home safe" usually).

Or the chief of police can follow me for over a mile without my knowledge in an unmarked car, stop me, demand to know "where I am going and what I was doing in that neighborhood" (an overwhelmingly white middle class one...as a white middle class guy) that I've lived in for 20 years all because he "didn't recognize my car."

Yeah, now that I think about it I agree with you, actually.

I really do hope I never have to depend on those clowns for anything either.

[Kuya]

I know that, but i didn't see anywhere in the article where cocaine was mentioned. Was just bringing up the point that certain drugs make certain people nearly impossible to detain.

Yes, but he was talking about cocaine, not other drugs besides cocaine, unless he implied in some other post that no drugs can severely alter one's mental state; the only thing i see in his post is him making his point with cocaine.

[shihei]

I wonder if their is a video tape to watch, either from their police cruiser or a 3rd party thinking he is making the next Rodney King tape.

Maybe we can expect some riots if these cops go on trial and get acquited. RIGHT?

[Khamsin]

All sorts of victimless crimes go on unpunished all the time. Yet, to hear a police officer tell it, they have a Sword of Damocles dangling over their head by a hair that will snap should they allow some terrible transgression against The Law to go unpunished. "Sorry, sir, I have to give you this ticket/arrest you for whatever." Right. Pure necessity.

Well, you know, it is their job. Does the guy behind the counter at McDonald's have to get you the fries you asked for? Yes, because they're fucking paid to. That's why they're there. Pure necessity.

If cops didn't stop anyone who was violating a law, or used their own discretion whether the law was worth enforcing, you'd probably have a lot of angry taxpayers clamoring how their money is being wasted on cops that aren't doing their job. The doing-nothing-but-eat-donuts-all-day stigma would be perpetuated further if they just came across some guy with pot and went "Eh, I did it myself when I was younger, now get out of here and don't let me see you with that again."

Again, if you have a problem with which laws are being enforced, take it up with the politicians and lawmakers. They're the ones who are paying the cops to bust people for these things you think are unworthy of legal interference.

Besides, there's a difference between a victimless crime and a crime committed against oneself.

Yes, but he was talking about cocaine, not other drugs besides cocaine, unless he implied in some other post that no drugs can severely alter one's mental state; the only thing i see in his post is him making his point with cocaine.

Which, when we get to the point of the matter, is moot... since the whole idea is that he may have been on drugs, and the cops wouldn't be expecting cocain over anything else. The real point is that the guy could have been on a drug that did make him violent and uncontrollable. Anybody could, that's why they approach with extreme (and sometimes excessive) caution.

[shihei]

The points moot anyway you don't have to be on drugs to want to NOT get arrested or hate the police. I'm sure there is alot of completely sober people out there who would mumble stuff about killing cops or require 7 officers to subdue. I have never seen any proof showing any drugs increase violent behaviour other than PCP.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people etc

[shihei]

The doing-nothing-but-eat-donuts-all-day stigma would be perpetuated further if they just came across some guy with pot and went "Eh, I did it myself when I was younger, now get out of here and don't let me see you with that again."

What. I have had exactly that happen to me on more then one occasion.

[shihei]

You can't exactly be only pissed at the lawmakers either.
The people who enforce the lawmakers laws are just as responsible as the lawmakers.

You don't see people saying don't blame the third reich, only Hitler and his confidants are to blame.

[Melchiah]

I would like to open by saying to Senor jmcgarrell that regurgitating what you were taught at the academy does not lend any sort of validation or credence to it. It's simply what you were told is the case, because they want you to be cautious when approaching a "suspect". Which is fine, but they evoke this behavior in you by fostering paranoia. Quite simply, if you don't/have never done drugs, do not try to state as fact what you think the effects are, based on what you were told in school.

Cocaine is a stimulant. It does not normally make it's users aggressive or violent, but everyone has a different biochemistry, so it isn't farfetched to think there might be a few out there who get a little squirrelly under it's influence. Cocaine and PCP are two entirely different animals. You really can't compare the two. I cannot make a firsthand statement on the effects of PCP, I can only go off what I know from the research I've done. I've done a lot of research on different drugs, and I always research a drug before I try it. Given that, I don't have much to say about PCP, other than it appears to be a super-stimulant.

I really can't stand people blowing smoke trying to defend their position, it's one of my pet peeves. Facts are good, and you look like a bigger man for admitting that you don't know everything, and more like a tool for acting like you do.

As for the real topic at hand, the cops:

I understand that cops have a dangerous, and often unappreciated job. I appreciate the good cops who try be real public servants. But you have to understand jmcgarrell, there are so many piece of trash, asshole cops out there with testosterone problems who like to pick on people like teenage kids who are weaker than them. You might not be one, but you really need to understand that the negative sentiment is not baseless. It had to come from somewhere, and it comes from the large number of asshole cops out there. I think it was Aristotle who came to the conclusion that anyone who seeks power is doing it for the sake of power and is therefore unfit to have it. The police enforce authority, therefore they have power, and most of them are unfit to wield it.

Remember the story of the university kid who forgot his student ID and got tazed on his way OUT of the library... tazed while complying with the directive he was given to leave?

My friend Jamie is a diabetic. From time to time, he suffers from diabetic seizures and passes out. He also wears one of those little "hay guyz im a diabetic k" ID badges on his neck. He got into his car to leave work one night, and passed out. Homewood police showed up because someone reported a guy half-hanging out of a parked car at the shop. When Jamie "didn't respond" to the officers, they tazed him. Repeatedly. Do you really think it's reasonable to taze unresponsive people? Unresponsive is NOT insubordination. Unresponsive means unconscious. Do you see doctors using tazers on unresponsive patients? They might use a defibrolator... but they don't taze unresponsive people.

As for the cops and the tazers, this is becoming more and more of a problem. I personally feel that there is a large number of cops with attitude problems, as I stated above. In the past, their weaponry consisted of a stick and a gun, both of which are messy methods of subduing suspects, and as such were generally "last straw" things. Billy clubs and guns draw a lot of sympathy for the victims because of the blood involved in their use, and so they were sort of self-regulating. Tazers are different. Cops are being issued a weapon that hardly leaves a mark on its victims. In the right hands, there really is no issue. However there are a lot of wrong hands holding this new weapon, and we are seeing it abused more frequently. I don't think this is a coincidence. They can use this weapon to satisfy their need for dominance over other people, and excuse it by claiming they needed to subdue the suspect. It's bullshit, really. Again, this is textbook "assholes screwing up something good for the rest", but there are more assholes than decent cops. Argue all you want, in my experiences, the majority have a dominance complex, and feel the need to assert dominance over everyone they encounter. These stories with the tazers do little to discount my experiences.

As for the particular instance of the teen with the broken back:

We don't have a lot of information to work with. However, I highly doubt a kid who just fell from an overpass and had multiple spinal fractures would be thinking anything about killing cops, much less speaking those thoughts aloud. I imagine his thoughts were a muddled mess of searing pain and wondering if he was ever going to walk again. I hate to do this, but I'm gonna have to agree with guartz and say the whole "kill cops" thing was a bullshit excuse. At the very least, if these cops were simply following a preset departmental policy that tells them to taze a person who does not respond(respond: acknowledge receipt and understanding of a directive), then there is a severe problem with the department and it's policies. When a policy leaves room for an unresponsive person with severe spinal injuries to be shocked, which causes muscle spasms(oh btw, remember how they tell you not to move a person who has neck or back injuries? What do you think forcing this persons entire body to spasm does? durrrrrrrr), there is a problem. The officers either didn't properly evaluate the scene, and decided that a crippling injury constituted a threat, or they blindly followed a policy that told them to taze the kid when he didnt comply with instructions, regardless of his condition or any other extenuating circumstances. Either way, the situation was not handled properly at all, and I blame the police on the scene.