Dynamis and Limbus Get a Makeover! (08/04/2008)

[LD]

Only at BG!

No. No, that's not true and that's the problem.

[sleekmotorwurkz]

Only at BG!

NOTHING is "only at bg" as long as charitwo is around

[Sho]

Yes, that 8 damage reduction from subbed Phalanx with no natural enhancing skill is really going to do wonders for when a mob hits you for 50-80 damage or (much, much) more a pop. And you will only need a total of 144 MND to cap out that stoneskin from RDM sub, you can do that easily. And that 9 extra damage per swing from en-spells will really make you tear up the parser, provided of course that they aren't resisted, but we all know that anyone can sub BLM and nuke just as well as a main job without resists. And you are totally correct, your C- evasion skill is going to save you, who needs that bad old Utsusemi for reliable damage mitigation?

As we can see, Red Mage is the ideal support job for Blue Mage, anyone who says otherwise is completely delusional.

The representative from Sarcasm-land thanks you for your time.

>.>/ That's not to mention that Cocoon and Zephyr Mantle exists, reason why I stated such a thing in the first place. And I'd still like zee extra dmg from enspell, tho some of it would be resisted indeed. And it's C- Evasion yus-- maybe I should have made it clear that I was speaking in favor of Dele talking about THF with bold tags or something. Now if I may, I'd like to use "It was 2 am in the morning and I was half asleep excuse" Trap Card item thingy.

[ronin sparthos]

BLU with native dual wield would make /THF oh so much more delicious for general play.

[LD]

.................The sheer amount of importance being given to DW and taken from Utsu in this topic is the most fucking asinine thing I've read in months.

Cocoon & Zephyr Mantle will never mitigate as much damage as Utsu, subbed enspells will do shit for your overall damage, and even considering BLU melee damage as important enough to improve is deserving of a jab to the kidneys. /RDM for BLU is only good when Utsu is rendered impotent by fast attacks or frequent wipes by WSs. No matter how you want to cut it, BLU spells make up at least half our damage and all of our usefulness.

[Suteru]

and vajra is from power rangers

And I swear, I was the first one to point out both of these

[Rowe]

.................The sheer amount of importance being given to DW and taken from Utsu in this topic is the most fucking asinine thing I've read in months.

That's the point I was trying to make. DW is not so special, why not allow small one-handed specialized jobs do it? THF DNC only use daggers, any other game you play just about every job that uses daggers can DW them. DW is not so special that only NIN and /NIN should be able to do it. I personally hate empty equipment slots and that empty oft hand drives me nuts. Utsusemi it the true power of /nin, but somehow SE thinks DW is something special.

[Maxxthepenguin]

No subjob is great for increasing BLU damage output except THF for the occasions when you can SA. That's why we use /NIN, the extra sword increases damage output as much as anything and uts is sexy. That said, if something else was a significant bonus to DD, I'd consider using it since head butts, zephyr mantle, and cocoon are good enough damage mitigation. If SCH had Blue Arts, I might use /SCH, for example.

[Arximiro]

In response to the incoming update. WOOT ^^/

[Lordwafik]

I don't see why SE has a hard on for keeping Dual Wield only for ninjas. All jobs that excel in 1h weapons should get it naturally, WAR THF DNC NIN BST , yatta yatta - although I can see why they wouldn't give dw to PLD naturally, however they have a hard on for sticking their gigantic development cock in PLD's tiny prepubescent vagina and keep turning it into the powerful whore that it is today.
Bump up nin's trait 1 more @ 75, and give everyone else DW 2. You won't get /nintsusemi, but people will realize, like how they realized when blm got "Nerfed" that there are other ways to play this game.

In other FF's, almost everyone could dual weild weapons. Other MMOs, multiple classes gain dual weild. Ninjas will feel raped, yes, but welcome to RDM and THF - watch your traits become offered to everyone who isn't you.

[Seraph]

I don't see why SE has a hard on for keeping Dual Wield only for ninjas. All jobs that excel in 1h weapons should get it naturally, WAR THF DNC NIN BST , yatta yatta - although I can see why they wouldn't give dw to PLD naturally, however they have a hard on for sticking their gigantic development cock in PLD's tiny prepubescent vagina and keep turning it into the powerful whore that it is today.
Bump up nin's trait 1 more @ 75, and give everyone else DW 2. You won't get /nintsusemi, but people will realize, like how they realized when blm got "Nerfed" that there are other ways to play this game.

In other FF's, almost everyone could dual weild weapons. Other MMOs, multiple classes gain dual weild. Ninjas will feel raped, yes, but welcome to RDM and THF - watch your traits become offered to everyone who isn't you.

Just offer something like DW0 to other classes, so they get to offhand a weapon, but do not get the benefits of reduced swingtime delay. Keeps NINs special, helps other one-handers too.

Either that, or start making some nice shitty shields for more one-handers I guess...

[Ahlah]

Jobs specialised in 1h weapon don't really need build-in DW. They need better accuracy. With 8/8 katana merit and decent gear I have never hit 90% acc in TP burn party. Any1 who level WAR and use both axe/gaxe can tell you the difference. I still believe 1h weapon should get 3:4 Dex:acc ratio and 2h weapon is fine with the old 1:2 ratio. It makes more sense since 2h weapons should hit harder but have lower accuracy and 1h weapons hit fast and more accurately since they are easier to control.

So many ppl are still doing dynamis because the drop rate is horrible. If the drop rate of AF2 increase significantly, doesn't it mean most dynamis LS are going to have difficulty keeping members in long run?

[Sho]

.................The sheer amount of importance being given to DW and taken from Utsu in this topic is the most fucking asinine thing I've read in months.

Cocoon & Zephyr Mantle will never mitigate as much damage as Utsu, subbed enspells will do shit for your overall damage, and even considering BLU melee damage as important enough to improve is deserving of a jab to the kidneys. /RDM for BLU is only good when Utsu is rendered impotent by fast attacks or frequent wipes by WSs. No matter how you want to cut it, BLU spells make up at least half our damage and all of our usefulness.

I just don't see BLU pulling so much hate for Utsusemi to be needed in every melee situation, outside of heavy dmg AoE attacks from certain NMs where Utsusemi would be the obvious choice to have. In meripo-- I pull just enough hate enough hate in that to wipe a full set of shadows before the mob dies or another DD steals hate; Z Mantle could (and has when I run out of shihei) serve the same purpose.

And Sword Dmg isn't as important as physical blue magic I agree, but the fact there would be Dual Wield (theoretically in this case), why not throw a lil something extra onto it, resistible or not. That is to also say, don't fly off the handle thinking I just totally forgot about spells-- you should know every BLU puts that first.

... and I woke up to realize /WAR and /THF would be much better with DW2. Just wanted to defend /RDM for what it was worth... !

[Kyreth]

And I swear, I was the first one to point out both of these

You got the point out, I put the pic out. And since the thread's approaching critical derail, how's the LVL UP site doing and did Mychael get his character back?

[LD]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. There's no real reason not to give other jobs DW (even with FF5 & FFT specifically identifying it with Ninja), but DW isn't so great that it every job could become significantly better if they had it (well, not anymore, anyway). Conversely, the need for (or at least the usefulness of) utsu is nearly ubiquitous, so why ask for it on your own job if you're probably gunna sub NIN anyway? I mean, I'm a MNK (yes, I bet you didn't know that, also parenthesis), I really don't give a shit either way (in fact, it'd be interesting not being the only '1H' job that only gets a defensive advantage from /NIN), but this all seems really stupid to me. I'm not going to minimize the important of Cocoon & Zephyr Mantle (or /RDM, where appropriate), but that doesn't make what I said untrue. Whether they mitigate 'enough' is situational, I guess.

[Kyreth]

Oh, and as far as dual wield, /NIN, etc.

Utsusemi > dual wield as far as benefits go.

It's what allows everyone to wank away with high levels of weapon damage and live through it by basically saying "Enmity? Fuck the enmity rules, I have mone- er, shihei."

Take that away and people would be taking their precious DUEL WIELDAN skills and getting mashed into the ground because although other FF games had dual wield, most of them don't have anything resembling enmity rules. I slap a boss for 9999 damage,he lolrandomly hits someone in the party back instead. I paste somebody enough times in FFXI doing the usual lolTPBurn, the monster will turn around and engage in payback. No shadows = ow ow ow.

But enough of that. Dynamis revamp.

Cutting the price in half will increase demand. Period, end of story. You're cutting the cost of a relic in terms of trips made in half. More groups can handle 500K costs for something vs. 1 million per. Some areas are already regularly getting schedule collisions- on Ragnarok, my LS is seeing an increasing number of startup Dynamis LS'es that don't seem to understand what a schedule is and proceed to shit all over anyone's planned runs. Without instances, this'll only increase the train wreck further. Overcrowding the Dynamis schedule even further will mean more people wanting the same available level of currency- which will actually increase demand. 500K runs means that it'll also be easier for small groups to farm...which will shit up schedules even worse.

[LD]

So no instancing = we're back to 2004 only with relatively more reasonable prices.

[Spider-Dan]

So THF/NIN currently gets DW2.

By this suggestion, THF/WAR would get DW or DW2, etc.

By what you're saying, THF/WAR with DW2 would be worthless cause they can just go /NIN and get DW2 anyway? Think about that. THF+/WAR+DW2+Berserk < THF+DW2? lol Of course THF/NIN = THF+DW2+shadows but the whole point of saying THF+/WAR+DW2 would be awesome was purely from an offensive standpoint.

Merit THF already needs shadows, so this supposed buff would have no real effect on merit. The only real improvement (for endgame THF) would be something like THF/WAR vs. HNM, and personally, I think DWing as /WAR (with no Subtle Blow traits) would be less useful than Collaborate+shihei.

Am I opposed to a buff for THF? No (although I don't think THF really needs it). But if you are going to give THF a buff, make it a real buff instead of a fake, marginally useful one. Give THF a crit version of Aggressor or something (increase crits given and taken). Giving <=DW2 natively to THF would be like giving a native Double Attack trait (that doesn't stack with WAR's) to NIN.

[Kyreth]

Actually, if THF needed a buff it'd be a defensive one, IMHO.

Give them a mini-PD that severely boosts Evasion- sorta working like the Paladin's Sentinel JA, with an initial high boost that drops over time. Call it, er...Evade or something.

[Hanyoko]

Actually, if THF needed a buff it'd be a defensive one, IMHO.

Give them a mini-PD that severely boosts Evasion- sorta working like the Paladin's Sentinel JA, with an initial high boost that drops over time. Call it, er...Evade or something.

Monk already has it. Its called Dodge (ok not exactly the same, but going with the "other jobs getting your ability") Then again, and ability like that would be decent with the enmity stealing.