McCain... ahead?

[pohibaba]

Your history is wrong in at least two cases: LBJ's win. LBJ never campaigned to leave Vietnam (that was actually why Nixon got elected in '68 ). LBJ got elected because a year earlier JFK was assassinated. Goldwater knew he never had a shot at winning and at one point even stated "They're not going to assassinate two Presidents in less than a year."

Also, I would say that Monica-gate had very little, if anything at all, to do with Bush getting elected in '00. Clinton had a very high approval rating when he left office (65% or something, if I remember correct) and not even the Bush campaign was linking Gore to anything that had to do with that, as they knew it wouldn't be taken seriously. The Bush campaign just ran a better (read: more divisive) race than Gore did.

[Demosthenes11]

wait wait wait

people see mcCain as a conservative, and don't see obama as very liberal?

McCain is the most middle conservative to run in a long time, and Obama is possibly the most left candidate to ever run

[BarthelloSylph]

I'm not sure about Obama being the most liberal candidate EVER... he has been fairly moderate in his Senate voting record.

That being said, McCain is as liberal of a Republican as you'll ever get. The core of the party hates his guts. And I mean HATE.

[Charla]

wait wait wait

people see mcCain as a conservative, and don't see obama as very liberal?

McCain is the most middle conservative to run in a long time, and Obama is possibly the most left candidate to ever run

Is that so?

The American Conservative Union awarded McCain a lifetime rating of 82 percent through 2007, while McCain has an average lifetime 13 percent "Liberal Quotient" from Americans for Democratic Action through 2007.

As for what pohibaba mentioned, I think that's what I was saying. Vietnam 'happened' on LBJ's watch, so we elected Nixon. My format here was
"President: significant politically damaging event that happened during President's term"

Regarding 2000, you could just as easily make the argument that there was no such "event", and that it constitutes an exception to the pattern (along with Reagan), but blaming Monica is more convenient.

[Kuya]

Judging from McCain's voting record on taxes, it seems he was more of a moderate before he started running.

[BarthelloSylph]

I'm sure that doesn't surprise you... right?

Here's some poli knowledge for ya:

In the primaries, the candidates will run towards the base (away from the middle) to lock up the nomination

In the general election, candidates will do what is called "the dance to the middle/center" trying to win the independents.

The problem for McCain is that he still must satisfy the party as well, cause they are sure as hell still ain't buddy buddy with him

Obama can go all out for the undecided and middle voters

[archibaldcrane]

The Republican party (I know I brought this up before but I need to keep pounding it because it's so amazing) tried to get voters to believe that his south-eastern-asian adopted daughter was an illegitimate black child of his.

It saddens me ever so much that McCain has to pretend to cater to these complete fucking assholes.

[Charla]

Coversely, McCain has never called himself a post-partisan politician, and the public expects him to make the usual journey to the middle. Obama, meanwhile, has to be more careful to avoid the appearance of reneging on he promise to avoid politics as usual. As such, he has the much more difficult job of trying to accomplish politics and retain his image as a neo-politician.

[Beckwin]

McCain in the 90s was much more liberal/moderate (and likable/respectable) but ever since Bush was elected it's all been downhill and to the right for the man.

[Plow]

Regarding 2000, you could just as easily make the argument that there was no such "event", and that it constitutes an exception to the pattern (along with Reagan), but blaming Monica is more convenient.

I think the monica thing was a joke.


The "event" would be rigging the election and being appointed president by the supreme court.

[Demosthenes11]

I think the monica thing was a joke.


The "event" would be rigging the election and being appointed president by the supreme court.

I'm just curious, but will liberals ever be able to get over that? With no solid proof and just random whisperings here and there, a rigged 2000 election is becoming the new staged moon landing

[BarthelloSylph]

McCain in the 90s was much more liberal/moderate (and likable/respectable) but ever since Bush was elected it's all been downhill and to the right for the man.

So short of a memory... forget ye the immigration bill? That may have pissed off conservatives more than anything he's ever done.

Oh, and campaign finance reform. lol.

[Plow]

I'm just curious, but will liberals ever be able to get over that? With no solid proof and just random whisperings here and there, a rigged 2000 election is becoming the new staged moon landing

Maybe because the simple fact is that the recount was stopped and the president decided by the supreme court?

It's not exactly "just random whisperings" when that's just plain how it happened.

[Kwijiboe]

How many recounts did they do again?

[Beckwin]

Demosthenes11 on the SCOTUS electing a president, leader of the free world, along ideological lines: aww, nothing major jeeze, quit whining libruhls

Demosthenes11 on a city voting for a 1-2 year moratorium on new fast food development: RAWWWWRG I HATE THIS SO MUCH UGH GODDAMIT FUCK CALIFORNIA

[Demosthenes11]

cross-topic trolling, beautiful

and to be fair, im more pissed about the trans fat thing than the fast food thing

[Charla]

As I remember it, the Supreme Court's other option would have been to let Congress do the same thing they did, only with more political repercussions.

I didn't intend it as a joke, I intended it as the easiest way to fit the pattern I had created. Whether or not the pattern explains reality in that case as well as it did in the cases of Watergate/IranHostages/ReadMyLips is immaterial.

I remember about 4 recounts in some parts of the state.

[Beckwin]

The Supreme Court overruled the Florida Court's decision that prohibited Harris from putting and early end to the counting. I'm not sure about any US Congress potential involvement.

[Enkidu]

I'm not sure about Obama being the most liberal candidate EVER... he has been fairly moderate in his Senate voting record.

Hmm... Maybe not most liberal, but how can you possibly say moderate? Isn't his voting record 95% with Democrats or something like that?

[Maxxthepenguin]

cross-topic trolling, beautiful

and to be fair, im more pissed about the trans fat thing than the fast food thing

Wtf, big trans fat fan?