Physics-defying: Cheap power from water

[Charla]

We're not nearly powerful or intelligent enough to even come close to being able to create or unleash something that could alter time and space in such a way that the very fabric of the Universe is ripped asunder, intentionally or otherwise. I don't know why some people actually worry about CERN and the like, the worst that could possibly happen is that the damn thing explodes or something.

But what if we're like the monkeys on the typewriters? Eventually we'll just stumble upon Armageddon by blind luck!

[Woozie]

I never said it was likely.. In fact, I mentioned that it was VERY unlikely to begin with.. however, still a possibility..

Yeah, I understand. I just wanted to point out the thing about strange matter in case anyone was wondering how likely it was.

[Zalius]

Yeah, energy states lower than ground just doesn't make sense to me. I would have to see the mathematics to see why he's claiming that it's even possible for something to be lower than ground state. Every time there's a mathematical state lower than ground state, the system usually can be shown to have a zero percent probability of ever being found in such a state.

Now, the hydrogen atom DOES have a degenerate ground state, but that just means there's multiple states with the same energy.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/3/5...daec9585b2.png

The lowest energy level is clearly corresponding to n=1. This is because n is restricted to be a non-negative integer (this can be deduced directly from the Schrodinger equation after taking into account boundary conditions). Obviously n can't be equal to 0. One reason is because there are n's in th denominator, and the other reason is because the energy depends on n. If n is zero, the atom has no energy (which would violate the laws of physics).

if you ever post a picture like that and describe it using the word clearly im gonna pay 5 really big mother fuckers to rape you until you are a pile of mush and gross

[Woozie]

Oops, I forgot to add in this picture

http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/b/a...cc65876aef.png

The above picture was meant to show that n can't equal zero. This one shows that lower n = lower energy.

[Quicklet]

Dr. Randell Mills holds a Doctor of Medicine degree from Harvard University and a BA degree in Chemistry from Franklin and Marshall College.

Looking at some of the materials posted on his company site, on the surface it looks like a lot of junk science designed to give all the answers without really explaining why.

[Woozie]

Oh wow, so he isn't even a doctorate in any form of science. He's an actual medical doctor lol

[Mulligan]

This company is based in Cranbury, NJ, where I just happen to work as a chemist. So I think im going to poke over to their building and see what the deal is and whether it looks legitimate. I won't immediately deny its validity just because it goes against currently accepted notions of energy levels, but after reading some of the supporting theory on their website, I highly doubt this is legit. I have a feeling its something along the lines of, the guy is about to lose his funding so he says he finally figured it out to give himself more time to find a solution to something that will never work in the first place.

[Max™]

Yeah, saw that too, he's a physician, so that's double awesome.


Basically this is another vacuum energy power source claim, they're made regularly, and debunked consistently.

Yes there is potential energy tied up in "empty" space, it manifests as virtual pairs or the potential to have them, and is called Zero Point Energy, the Dirac Sea, Virtual Particles, etc, etc, etc...

No you're not likely to find an easy way to extract this energy, the vacuum is in a metastable state, and has remained as such for several billion years.

[Woozie]

I don't think this has anything to do with the zero point vacuum energy of free space...

[Max™]

He's claiming that he found a way to reduce the Coulomb Force essentially, when you read his "theory".

Coulomb exchange is facilitated by virtual photons.

The energy produced would essentially be freed virtual photons, so long story short, it's another system claiming to be able to mine energy from the vacuum, which is a claim that has been made repeatedly and disproved repeatedly. Except this time he uses the terminology of reduced ground states to obscure the claim.

There's something going on involving the catalyst which will cause it to be used up, it is interesting, but not miraculous.

[Charla]

You know, if you were sufficiently generous with the definition of "energy level", this could be accomplished in any atom by triggering reverse beta decay to create neutron degenerate matter, right? So all this guy has to do is generate an artificial miniature neutron star!

[Ramor]

So, why don't we have one of BG's patent guys draw up a patent and we'll throw a few names on there and we'll make our own fucking water-energy converter thing

[Ikith]

Okay we have scientists, computer experts, patent guys, accountants (I'm guessing), doctors, psychologists... Why not start our own fucking business and call it Bluegartr... We make water energy converters better than that guy.

[Ramor]

Okay we have scientists, computer experts, patent guys, accountants (I'm guessing), doctors, psychologists... Why not start our own fucking business and call it Bluegartr... We make water energy converters better than that guy.

Seconded.

[Maguspk]

He's gotten over 60 million in funds from various notable investors. I think I remember reading one investor had said "It'll either get big or flop" or something to that effect, but it's a little different than a simple claim considering the time frame is something like 20 years in the making. It isn't a hoax either considering they made it a point in the article to say it's working but they don't know why.

It's just an interesting article, people saying it's a joke seem like the real joke because the only thing he lacks is recognition from the scientific community, the product apparently works. The problem, as I read it, is that nobody understands why it works and they feel his claims are too bogus and unsettling to the very foundations of quantum physics and therefore aren't worth the time of day.

[Kaylia]

What the fuck.

"Physics-defying"
"he's found an endless source of cheap energy"

It's just a trap to lure investor in a project that will never produce any result. It's kinda sad CNN report shit like this, because it's too good to be true.

On a slightly unrelated side topic, is it possible for us to construct something that would tear the universe apart? Is there any reason to even worry about human scientific development, on a universal scale?

Sure, we can blow ourselves up, but that just affects us. But can we create stable black holes capable of swallowing our solar system? Can we collapse the vacuum of space?

If I had to bet on it, I would say no. Apocalyptic scenario like the one Jotaru described are hypothetical, and it kinda goes against the impression of stability we get when we observe the universe.


If you want to affect something the size of the universe, you will need the same kind of energy level imo, and it can't happen.

Sure, maybe the universe is a giant balloon that is waiting to be popped, but if we are still alive after 13 billions year, I don't think it's us on Earth that will do it.

[LD]

It wouldn't be physics defying (hint: nothing is), but I'd like to know more about the catalyst which is causing this interaction, because frankly it scares the shit out of me when you start talking about violating ground states.

I heard about a machine that could turn large amounts of water into steam and I immediately though "Oh My God, we're finally making doomsday weapons." Nukes are just played out. Giant explosions + fallout, meh. Weather-making machines, mind control devices, lazer fish. I think our's will be the james bond villain generation.

[Kaylia]

He's gotten over 60 million in funds from various notable investors. I think I remember reading one investor had said "It'll either get big or flop" or something to that effect, but it's a little different than a simple claim considering the time frame is something like 20 years in the making. It isn't a hoax either considering they made it a point in the article to say it's working but they don't know why.

It's just an interesting article, people saying it's a joke seem like the real joke because the only thing he lacks is recognition from the scientific community, the product apparently works. The problem, as I read it, is that nobody understands why it works and they feel his claims are too bogus and unsettling to the very foundations of quantum physics and therefore aren't worth the time of day.

What make you think their claim are true? It's just a pretty promise to get money from stupid people who don't know shit about physics. If someone would find a loop hole in quantum mechanics like he did (especially one that can be reproduced easily), it would be fucking huge. He would be able to get all the money he needs if he made a serious demonstrations, but instead, he is taking the "I've done it but I'm not showing" route.

Shit like this remind me of the phantom console scam a few year ago.

[Cochise]

I can't wait to play the video game and see the movie

Ground State : I Has A Dark Matter Maker

[Apelila]

"I've done it but I'm not showing" = "I've thought about it give me money".

Either the claim is
A: Completely bogus or
B: Very easily reproducible, to the point that it's analogous to the cotton gin.

So either he's full of it or he knows enough to know he has to completely CYA otherwise he risks losing any and all credit(IE: Money) for his invention.

You just have to wonder: Which one makes him a bigger douche bag? Milking money out of people to play with 'theories' while lining his pockets or having a solution for the energy problem but sitting on it because it wont make you any money?