Physics-defying: Cheap power from water

[Scrythe]

Ever see Event Horizon ^^

[Kayos]

I would say this is an outright scam if he didn't mention that he wasn't taking any more funding. I mean think of the timing of this with how oil prices have been...

That being said I don't know enough about the physics involved but if you read all the other articles on their website it makes them look really shady.

[Mulligan]

I was doing some investigating into the journal "Physics Essays" that all his work has been published in. It is no longer indexed in the Web of Science abstract and citation database which indexes over 8,700 scientific journals.
It is generally described in the following manner-

"Let's put it this way. MANY universities and institutions DO NOT have a subscription to this journal. This journal tend to emphasis on fringe physics, and the citation to papers appearing in this journal is abysmal. They are not looked upon as playing any significant role in the advancement of knowledge of physics."

[Maguspk]

Based on the last few replies you guys need to read the article.

He isn't "not showing it" he's had people come to his lab and watch him and even reproduce his stuff according to the article. His product works and at a ratio of cost efficiency of about .2/.9 or something like that if I recall correctly.

He isn't interested in more funding or investors, specifically says it in the article and he made it a point to wait to reveal his progress until he believed it was commercially sound. He doesn't want more money and he is even implementing it into something (forgot what) in the near future.

If you'd read the article apparently the only thing that isn't sound about his idea is the explanation. Most likely his theory isn't right and stuff sure, Hydrinos wtf? But it is working it's not some bogus claim.

[Mizango]

On a slightly unrelated side topic, is it possible for us to construct something that would tear the universe apart? Is there any reason to even worry about human scientific development, on a universal scale?

Sure, we can blow ourselves up, but that just affects us. But can we create stable black holes capable of swallowing our solar system? Can we collapse the vacuum of space?

Funny you should ask....

There was an lolethical debate on TV a few weeks ago, all in the press and newspapers worldwide about the LHC testing kicking off this month. The were concerned that it could be the doom of humanity and how about testing for the Higgs could potentially create a minute yet strong enough black hole that would suck the planet into it killing everyone. Average people on the street, soccer moms and scientists protesting and having fear that the very fabric of time can be ripped into nothingness.

I swear to God, Ive been waiting for testing to begin for about a year now. Why do stupid people with no interest or inclination towards Physics like to try to shit on my dreams? Although the idea of a mini-black hole would be awesome. I think I could live with the idea of being sucked into a void and destroyed. I use the term "live" loosely in this case....

One of the shows on the Science channel that I was talking to Woozie about in the other thread actually talks about the minuscule possibility of a black hole being produced in laboratory conditions. It was really neat, man the LHC is awesome they showed in full detail a lot of it's parts. The nerd in me wants to find a poster of it or make CERN and Switzerland my personal Mecca and Medina.

[Amele]

The strange matter hypothesis is unlikely. If stranglets existed, we'd most likely see "stranglet stars" in the skies. All it takes is one stranglet interacting with a star to cause the star to be completely converted into strange matter. If there was stable strange matter, then by this point the neutron stars we observe should instead be strangelet stars (since neutrons are neutral, they are most susceptible to interacting with strange matter. The positive nucleus of an atom would repel strangelets so that normal stars and planets are unlikely to be affected by strange matter).

how likely do you consider quark stars? (not strange quark stars but just quark stars) and what are your thoughts on SN 2006gy (if you've been following it at all)

[Max™]

Here we go, found a good explanation which nicely sums up this guys behavior.

Free Energy Suppression.

What he is describing is a typical zero-point/overunity/free-energy/perpetual motion scenario.

"I put in x energy, and I get out x2 energy, it's miraculous!"


Here's the problem: If it is producing power, then it will be doing SOMETHING involving the catalysts, given that it is producing a large amount of power, it will probably use the catalyst up rapidly, turning that into an interesting, but most likely expensive fuel source.

If he wasn't producing the power through a fairly normal but previously untapped chemical process, it would be exciting (and scary to some, seriously, the constants governing the Coulomb Force* kinda play a major role in oh... ya know, chemistry among other things, so adjusting said constants would then adjust the orbits of electrons within atoms, likely completely altering the way they interact with one another to produce the chemistry we depend upon) but the information on his page doesn't back that claim up.


*The Coulomb Force is related to positive and negative electrical charges and their attractive or repulsive behavior. Violating it would be... interesting... and probably serve as a devastating weapon.

[Khamsin]

Funny you should ask....

There was an lolethical debate on TV a few weeks ago, all in the press and newspapers worldwide about the LHC testing kicking off this month. The were concerned that it could be the doom of humanity and how about testing for the Higgs could potentially create a minute yet strong enough black hole that would suck the planet into it killing everyone. Average people on the street, soccer moms and scientists protesting and having fear that the very fabric of time can be ripped into nothingness.

I swear to God, Ive been waiting for testing to begin for about a year now. Why do stupid people with no interest or inclination towards Physics like to try to shit on my dreams? Although the idea of a mini-black hole would be awesome. I think I could live with the idea of being sucked into a void and destroyed. I use the term "live" loosely in this case....

One of the shows on the Science channel that I was talking to Woozie about in the other thread actually talks about the minuscule possibility of a black hole being produced in laboratory conditions. It was really neat, man the LHC is awesome they showed in full detail a lot of it's parts. The nerd in me wants to find a poster of it or make CERN and Switzerland my personal Mecca and Medina.

I think I heard that an unstable micro black hole that only exists for a split second is a possibility, but a full-blown suck-our-solar-system-into-oblivion black hole is not going to happen.

What would be cool (and probably impossible) is if the experiment caused a black hole just stable enough to continue to exist, but only strong enough to affect a certain radius beyond which other forces outweigh the black hole and prevent anything else from being affected. Basically, I'm just envisioning a black hole of nothing the radius of the LHC where you could stand just outside the event horizon and be unaffected while you gaze into the nothingness, but step over and disappear.

[Mizango]

That's would indeed be awesome. The mental picture is making me daydream..... Only if.

[Max™]

how likely do you consider quark stars? (not strange quark stars but just quark stars) and what are your thoughts on SN 2006gy (if you've been following it at all)

Quagma is the term I always liked for it.

The universe before nucleosynthesis was likely an ocean of quagma, when it cooled, quarks became locked up inside of protons and neutrons, and as it cooled further, protons and neutrons became locked up inside of atomic nuclei.

The energy densities required to form quagma again are unbelieveably high, like taking a swimming pool worth of water and compressing it to be smaller than a pea.

Those theoretical Quark Novae could be explained by a negatively charged quagma runaway, where the quark matter would begin taking apart nuclei around it, since an atomic nucleus is just a bundle of quarks anyway, releasing gobs of energy from strong force violation, and before long the freed up energy would overcome gravities grip... and... well...

boom

[Max™]

I think I heard that an unstable micro black hole that only exists for a split second is a possibility, but a full-blown suck-our-solar-system-into-oblivion black hole is not going to happen.

What would be cool (and probably impossible) is if the experiment caused a black hole just stable enough to continue to exist, but only strong enough to affect a certain radius beyond which other forces outweigh the black hole and prevent anything else from being affected. Basically, I'm just envisioning a black hole of nothing the radius of the LHC where you could stand just outside the event horizon and be unaffected while you gaze into the nothingness, but step over and disappear.

Hawking Radiation >.<

A black hole below a certain scale would apparently glow like a star, before evaporating away too much mass to maintain the black hole state, and detonating.


Also, larger holes would actually be relatively docile just outside the event horizon, if you were to fall into a supermassive black hole, you wouldn't experience tidal shredding at that distance, just ever increasing time dilation... assuming that the event horizon was actually something you could pass through, and not the actual extent of the black hole (see: information/holographic theory) itself.

[Amele]

the micro black hole evaporating is tied to Hawking Radiation - (the idea that black holes actually shed energy/mass in the form of radiation at some rate) so if Hawking Radiation doesn't actually happen then a micro black hole might not evaporate and would instead grow..

but I was under the impression that the only scenario under which the LHC is capable of producing micro black holes is one in which the black holes also evaporate, so it's not something anyone should be worrying about

edit: jumped by Max XD

[Khamsin]

By the way, if there's strange matter and strangelets, is there such a thing as charm matter and charmlets?

[Max™]

Interestingly, since the conversation started with "free-energy" discussions...

If you could wrap a black hole up somehow and capture all of the hawking radiation fleeing from it's event horizon, you would essentially be mining vacuum energy...

Course, since the radiation you were using would effectively be decreasing the energy of the hole, it would be the fuel being used up...

Though that could be a good long term power source for an extra-galactic civilization.

[Max™]

By the way, if there's strange matter and strangelets, is there such a thing as charm matter and charmlets?

Here ya go: Quark Matter in more detail than you might have wanted, but it should help explain it nicely.

Up and Down being what protons and neutrons are made of, strange quark matter is currently still a theory, an interesting one, but if strange matter can/does exist, the timescales involved would be huge, since it would be a possible indicator of proton decay.

Since you don't collapse under your own mass, proton decay must be on a huge timescale.

Strange quarks would be just slightly more likely to be found than up/down's, charms would be less likely to be found than strange.

They're after me Lucky Charm Quarks!

Also: Top and Bottom quark decay is responsible for homosexuality, you heard it here first!

[Kaylia]

Based on the last few replies you guys need to read the article.

He isn't "not showing it" he's had people come to his lab and watch him and even reproduce his stuff according to the article. His product works and at a ratio of cost efficiency of about .2/.9 or something like that if I recall correctly.

He isn't interested in more funding or investors, specifically says it in the article and he made it a point to wait to reveal his progress until he believed it was commercially sound. He doesn't want more money and he is even implementing it into something (forgot what) in the near future.

If you'd read the article apparently the only thing that isn't sound about his idea is the explanation. Most likely his theory isn't right and stuff sure, Hydrinos wtf? But it is working it's not some bogus claim.

It's -not- working. He is lying. People who saw his experiment don't know shit about physics, and they were scammed.

You can defend him if you want, but the claim he is making in the articles are ridiculous.

[Maguspk]

It's -not- working. He is lying. People who saw his experiment don't know shit about physics, and they were scammed.

You can defend him if you want, but the claim he is making in the articles are ridiculous.

Jan Naudts, a physics professor at the University of Antwerp, says of Mills' work, "The few people who looked at it immediately found errors." He adds, however, "That's quite common with new theories. And his hasn't been investigated on a large scale."

Mills attributes the lack of engagement with his theory to the self-preserving nature of academia.

"As long as you're in the mainstream, you're fine. But if you're doing something paradigm-changing, you're proving that academics have been going down the wrong path," he says. Such self-interested politics, argues Mills, have led mainstream scientists to seek BlackLight's demise by blacklisting the company from publications and spreading disinformation on the Web.

Brewer, who has served on the firm's board since 1997, agrees that the fear of losing government grants has bred widespread skepticism towards the hydrino: "Hell hath no fury like a professor whose funding is cut off."

BlackLight does have a few fans among scientists. Gerrit Kroesen, a professor Eindhoven University in the Netherlands, wrote in an e-mail that he's attempted to replicate Mills' experiment and produced surprising, if not conclusive, results.

I gotta put words here to post this

[Kaylia]

You convince a physician with experimental evidences, data, schemas and explanation, not accusing other of disbelief.

Something like this should be investigated on a large scale, but he isn't telling anyone how he did it.

[Gwynplaine]

Well I guess we shall have to wait and see and let reality be the judge.

If someone were to do such a thing they would undoubtedly become a multi-billionaire, and everyone would benefit from such an invention. And it definitely would be "cool" as well. I'm not even saying it's totally 100% impossible, I don't have any kind of thorough engineering background. I'm saying that given the past record of these stories I'd like a large amount of proof to back it up.
Recommended link:Water: Alternative Fuel of the Future?

[recuperi]

Recommended link:Water: Alternative Fuel of the Future?

doesn't work