The Pickens Plan

[Amele]

it's bullshit. at 21 billion barrels proven reserves we'll burn through our supply by ourselves in about 2 years and 8 months.

[Royal]

I agree with #1. #2, I will agree with it to an extent needs to be verify (for my curiosity). #3, is a great idea on paper; however, like the OP says it will be costly so I am unsure if that will happen very soon (and if it does). The fourth one like Obama said for his Energy Plan to get rid of this country oil-dependency and have more pulled in gas station and hybrids on the road. (Those rebates sounds promising and tax credits).

Note: the following is NOT a fact. It was an idea and opinion a friend of mines has. The idea seems like good idea but I am unsure about it.

My friend told me that the US is getting more oil from foreign countries and saving our resources in Texas because once the natural resource (oil) is drained from the foreign countries, they will need to buy from us. This will cause the US to have a monopoly on it.

want to see what everyone on BG things about that "idea".

That makes sense. I heard some radio commercial today talking about how we had some like 21 million acres of drilling sites that we haven't drilled in yet? I don't know if i heard that correctly since that sounds like alot.

[evilbau]

related al gore interview:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540...64672#25764672

[Maguspk]

There was some book... blah. I can't recall title/author now, and I threw out the excerpts I got in my Critical Thinking class last year... the instructor had mentioned it to us. It basically outlined and proved that we could be oil-free now... gdi i'm going to go nuts until I find it. I know the guy had a website based around it too... I either have to assume it was somehow negated/disproven or just basically blown off as a bunch of schlock because it would cost too much or something, that the book didn't get more press or something.

That's the part I really hate though, when gov't starts bitching about how much stuff would cost to change. It's not like we're not already spending oodles of money, it's just if we try to change the way we do things the money will go somewhere other than it does now, and god forbid the already rich people don't just keep raking in money and getting richer. More important to keep them happy now than to worry about whether or not future generations will be able to live at all. Blah blah idealist rhetoric, blah blah utopia, blah blah etc. I'm tired.

How could we be totally oil free with all these cars on the road? It's not as simple as saying "let's change shit" although, if he convinced you it was that easy he apparently did a good job.

[Correction]

It basically outlined and proved that we could be oil-free now...

'proved' is a strong statement. Cheap oil allows people to live where it's cheap to live and commute to a job they often don't get to keep for longer than five years, and start the cycle anew since job security and public transportation is a motherfucking joke in this country.

Really curious how he 'proved' those hurdles are surmountable without a complete upheaval of how we've built our cities over the last hundred years.

[Amele]

'proved' is a strong statement. Cheap oil allows people to live where it's cheap to live and commute to a job they often don't get to keep for longer than five years, and start the cycle anew since job security and public transportation is a motherfucking joke in this country.

Really curious how he 'proved' those hurdles are surmountable without a complete upheaval of how we've built our cities over the last hundred years.

battery electric technology has matured to the point where you can run a commuter vehicle as a plug in hybrid.

trains haven't *needed* fossil fuels in 50 years (ever since they went to electric gen-sets in the 60's) and can be substituted for long range transport like they were prior to the existence of the Eisenhower Highway system and 30cent gasoline.

the projected energy grid needs for this country (hell, the planet) can be met by a mix of hydroelectric, Gen III Fission, Wind, Geo and Solar, using existing proven tech that in some cases has already been in use for the last 3 decades if not longer, combined with a new HVDC transmission infrastructure to remove transmission wastes from the system.

and none of that requires significantly changing how we live, just changing the regulations behind what we're building today and actually investing some money in improving US infrastructure rather than letting it get to almost 1.5T USD behind.

personally, I consider suburbs to be blight but I recognize that some people love their McMansions and would be loath to give them up; the alternatives exist to keep them.

edit: where I said 'plug in hybrid' I mean plug in electric. but give us three more years and we'll have commercially viable hydrogen/electric plug-in hybrids with ~600mile ranges

[Maguspk]

battery electric technology has matured to the point where you can run a commuter vehicle as a plug in hybrid.

trains haven't *needed* fossil fuels in 50 years (ever since they went to electric gen-sets in the 60's) and can be substituted for long range transport like they were prior to the existence of the Eisenhower Highway system and 30cent gasoline.

the projected energy grid needs for this country (hell, the planet) can be met by a mix of hydroelectric, Gen III Fission, Wind, Geo and Solar, using existing proven tech that in some cases has already been in use for the last 3 decades if not longer, combined with a new HVDC transmission infrastructure to remove transmission wastes from the system.

and none of that requires significantly changing how we live, just changing the regulations behind what we're building today and actually investing some money in improving US infrastructure rather than letting it get to almost 1.5T USD behind.

personally, I consider suburbs to be blight but I recognize that some people love their McMansions and would be loath to give them up; the alternatives exist to keep them.

edit: where I said 'plug in hybrid' I mean plug in electric. but give us three more years and we'll have commercially viable hydrogen/electric plug-in hybrids with ~600mile ranges

Last time I checked those current Hybrids used gasoline, that's not "oil-free". Converting to pure electric or electric/hydrogen(wtf?) would be too costly. Besides, even if you could manage full on electric cars, do you honestly think equipping everyone's cars to run on electricity is a feasible idea? If public transportation was a bit better it might be more feasible to convert them and force people to commute on public vehicles.

[Beckwin]

plug-ins wouldn't be too costly really. from my limited understanding, current hybrids use similar technology as far as storing electricity. the problem, like Amele said, is terribad urban planning over the last 70 years resulting in suburban "blight" and public transportation neglect. plug-ins are a lot more feasible when you don't have to drive so far so often and can just plug the car in one or two nights a week.

[Brien]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0489037/ watch it

[Beckwin]

oh is that about the electric car developed in CA that Detroit basically paid to get rid of?

[Athas]

oh is that about the electric car developed in CA that Detroit basically paid to get rid of?

You are some kind of sorcerer.

[Amele]

Last time I checked those current Hybrids used gasoline, that's not "oil-free". Converting to pure electric or electric/hydrogen(wtf?) would be too costly. Besides, even if you could manage full on electric cars, do you honestly think equipping everyone's cars to run on electricity is a feasible idea? If public transportation was a bit better it might be more feasible to convert them and force people to commute on public vehicles.

plug in electrics using the LiIon drive-train developed by T-zero get approx 200-250 miles per charge and charge in 8 hours to 100% (at 220V it's about 1hour to 80%) and these are cheaper battery systems than the current Lead-Acid in so much favor and are easy to dispose of.

the more advanced lithium-polymer designs can do a full charge (0-100%) in around an hour, and Toshiba is in the process of bringing a 5 minute charge design to market. LiPoly batteries are also cheaper to manufacture and more robust to impact than LiIon (and LiIon aren't exactly fragile either).

for the record, every on-grid house on the planet has a 200-240V line (specific voltage depending on region) and installing a regulator in your garage is a 1hour project.


oh, and an all electric car is cheaper to build than a hybrid. and has fewer moving parts (the engine can actually be 0 moving parts using magnetics to rotate the drive shaft, etc) so it requires less maintenance too.


and electric/hydrogen is an option for longer range vehicles, with hydrogen fuel-cell storage, these sorts of vehicles are actually *safer* in a crash than a standard gas ICE. and can be built with two different engine configurations (HICE and Hydrogen-electric) I prefer the latter because it doesn't require explosions. and I said give us 3 years because that's when the 30$/KW fuel-cells will hit the market, making the cost of a fuel-cell/HICE system comparable to a gas/ICE system.

so, to summarize: yes, electric cars have been viable for at least 5 years even with the terrible layout of modern America and have been workable technology since the days of Edison. There's precious little reason not to convert over to electric - they're cleaner, just as fast, similar single tank range and require less maintenance. and they're cheaper to operate.

AND if you do a production run at the scale that the 'major' lines do their primary budget cars would cost about the same.

[Churchill]

my only fear is some faggotry where gasoline vehicles are banned because of this stupid freakout regarding oil.

i <3 my R7X

[Amele]

my only fear is some faggotry where gasoline vehicles are banned because of this stupid freakout regarding oil.

i <3 my R7X

gasoline vehicles should be banned because they cause air-pollution and burning gasoline is a waste of an important industrial chemical.

and electric vehicles don't mean the end of sporty cars. the most successful electric plug in to date is a 3.8second 0-60.

[Kyreth]

Not to mention that there are more sources for electricity than there are for oil. Always have been, always will be, and many for the former are more renewable/larger reserves than fossil fuels.

Switch more of the world over to electrically powered engines and non-fossil fueled (at least oil, and hopefully more) electrical generation, and a lot of our angst over OPEC would fade away. Pickens has the right idea there.

[Maguspk]

plug in electrics using the LiIon drive-train developed by T-zero get approx 200-250 miles per charge and charge in 8 hours to 100% (at 220V it's about 1hour to 80%) and these are cheaper battery systems than the current Lead-Acid in so much favor and are easy to dispose of.

the more advanced lithium-polymer designs can do a full charge (0-100%) in around an hour, and Toshiba is in the process of bringing a 5 minute charge design to market. LiPoly batteries are also cheaper to manufacture and more robust to impact than LiIon (and LiIon aren't exactly fragile either).

for the record, every on-grid house on the planet has a 200-240V line (specific voltage depending on region) and installing a regulator in your garage is a 1hour project.


oh, and an all electric car is cheaper to build than a hybrid. and has fewer moving parts (the engine can actually be 0 moving parts using magnetics to rotate the drive shaft, etc) so it requires less maintenance too.


and electric/hydrogen is an option for longer range vehicles, with hydrogen fuel-cell storage, these sorts of vehicles are actually *safer* in a crash than a standard gas ICE. and can be built with two different engine configurations (HICE and Hydrogen-electric) I prefer the latter because it doesn't require explosions. and I said give us 3 years because that's when the 30$/KW fuel-cells will hit the market, making the cost of a fuel-cell/HICE system comparable to a gas/ICE system.

so, to summarize: yes, electric cars have been viable for at least 5 years even with the terrible layout of modern America and have been workable technology since the days of Edison. There's precious little reason not to convert over to electric - they're cleaner, just as fast, similar single tank range and require less maintenance. and they're cheaper to operate.

AND if you do a production run at the scale that the 'major' lines do their primary budget cars would cost about the same.

Proved me wrong, didn't even know shit like that existed. Links please? I'd like to buy one tbh.

[Beckwin]

wow, the coming battery developments are pretty exciting. To think, if we could convince Big Oil to build nuclear plants, or wind farms, or solar farms, instead of oil rigs...

[archibaldcrane]

I love the idea of electric vehicles.

But I park on the fucking street every night, and 3 stories down in a parking garage at work - where am I supposed to get my charge?

[Correction]

There's precious little reason not to convert over to electric - they're cleaner, just as fast, similar single tank range and require less maintenance. and they're cheaper to operate.

Fast as what, the typical commuter car? If 'It can go the speed limit.' was a convincing selling point of electric vehicles I can't help but think that alone would have sold it to the public 20 years ago. I'm skeptical of the performance numbers here...most reviews of both the prius and honda hybrids have marked mediocre performance at best. Passing other cars on the highway is a near impossibility.

[Beckwin]

Toshiba is in the process of bringing a 5 minute charge design to market.

there is hope for you yet :D

chargin' stations