georgia and russia at war

[Rigor]

Supposedly the Russians blew up a Georgian ammunition depot near Gori which, if true, is probably how that reporter got grazed.

That seems unlikely since if they were close enough to catch shrapnel from that kind of blast they would have realized the large shockwave and saw the smoke and fire. I guess its not impossible though.

[guartz]

Supposedly the Russians blew up a Georgian ammunition depot near Gori which, if true, is probably how that reporter got grazed.

that's funny

[Mugekuge]

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=lnnxgB...s/n118997.html

[Brill Weave]

Well Russia has been busy today.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080819/...44bCPn8h1NYhAF

POTI, Georgia - Russian soldiers took about 20 Georgians in military uniform prisoner at a key Black Sea port in western Georgia on Tuesday, blindfolding them and holding them at gunpoint, and commandeered American Humvees awaiting shipment back to the United States.

The move came as a small column of Russian tanks and armored vehicles left the strategic city of Gori in the first sign of a Russian pullback of troops from Georgia after a cease-fire intended to end fighting that reignited Cold War tensions.

The two countries on Tuesday also exchanged prisoners. However, Russian soldiers also seized Georgians in Poti — the country's key oil port city — and commandeered four U.S. Humvees that had been used in U.S.-Georgian military exercises.

It was the latest example of Russia still demonstrating its military prowess, leaving Georgians to wonder if Russia planned an extended military occupation or was still inflicting punishment before adhering to a promised troop withdrawal.

At an emergency meeting in Brussels, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and her 25 NATO counterparts demanded that Russia immediately withdraw its troops from Georgia, a U.S. ally that wants to join NATO.

"It is time for the Russian president to keep his word to withdraw Russian forces," Rice told a news conference.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov lashed back, telling a hastily gathered news conference that the alliance was supporting an aggressive Georgia.

NATO "is trying to make a victim of the aggressor, to absolve of guilt a criminal regime, to save a collapsed regime; and is taking a course to rearm the current leaders of Georgia," Lavrov said.

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev told French President Nicolas Sarkozy by phone Tuesday that Russian troops will withdraw from most of Georgia by Friday, the Kremlin said — some to Russia, others to South Ossetia and a surrounding "security zone" set in 1999.

In Poti, Russian forces blocked access to the city's naval and commercial ports on Tuesday morning and towed the missile boat Dioskuria, one of the navy's most sophisticated vessels, out of sight of observers. A loud explosion was heard minutes later. Georgian Interior Ministry spokesman Shote Utiashvili said the Russian military blew up the Dioskuria.

Several hours later, an Associated Press photographer saw Russian trucks and armored personnel carriers leaving the port with about 20 blindfolded and handcuffed men riding on them.

Poti Mayor Vano Taginadze said the Russians seized 22 military and police troops because the Georgians refused to let Russian armored vehicles enter the port. The Georgians were taken to the nearby Senaki military base, now controlled by Russia.

There were conflicting reports from Georgian officials late Tuesday on whether the men were freed, or some were still detained, or all were to be released Wednesday.

Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said officials were looking into the reported theft of the Humvees.

The deputy head of Russia's general staff, Col. Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn, said Russian forces plan to remain in Poti until a local administration is formed, but did not give further details. He also justified previous seizures of Georgian soldiers as necessary to crack down on soldiers who were "out of any kind of control ... acting without command."

An AP television crew has seen Russian troops in and around Poti all week, with local port officials saying the Russians had destroyed radar, boats and other Coast Guard equipment there.

A Georgian official also said Russians were slowing down food aid shipments to Poti.

"Right now there are Russian soldiers and tanks at Poti," Georgian Finance Minister Nika Gilavri said. "They want to open every single container" and inspect them.

Russian troops last week drove Georgian forces out of South Ossetia, where Georgia on Aug. 7 launched a heavy artillery barrage in the separatist Georgian province with close ties to Russia. Fighting also has flared in a second Russian-backed separatist region, Abkhazia.

The short war has driven tensions between Russia and the West to some of their highest levels since the 1991 breakup of the Soviet Union.

Tensions also have flared between Ukraine and Russia amid fears that Moscow might next set sights on Ukraine, another ex-Soviet republic whose government is seeking NATO membership.

The two countries sparred Tuesday over Russia's use of naval base in the port of Sevastopol, which it is renting from Ukraine. The Kremlin has made it clear it wants the Russian ships to remain in Sevastopol even when the current lease agreement expires in 2017.

Ukraine's pro-Western President, Victor Yushchenko, sided with Georgia in its conflict with Russia and moved to restrict the movement of Russian ships in the port, saying the vessels' movements were subject to Kiev's approval.

Ukraine's foreign minister, Volodymyr Ohryzko, later sought to cool tensions and said that Ukraine will not physically prevent Russian ships from entering and leaving the naval base.

Meanwhile in central Georgia, a small column of Russian tanks and armored vehicles left Gori, and a Russian officer said they were heading back to South Ossetia and then Russia. Col. Igor Konoshenkov, a Russian military officer at the scene, gave no timetable for when the unit would reach Russia.

But other Russian troops and military vehicles remained in and around Gori following the pullout. A cease-fire requires both Georgia and Russia to return to positions held before the fighting began.

"It didn't take them really three or four days to get into Georgia, and it really shouldn't take them three or four days to get out," Gordon Johndroe, a spokesman for the National Security Council, told reporters in Crawford, Texas, where President Bush is spending time at his ranch.

"It needs to happen faster; that's what they've agreed to," Johndroe said.

Russia's foreign minister called a snap news conference in Moscow to respond to Tuesday's remarks by NATO Secretary-General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer, who accused Russia of occupying Georgia and said "there can be no business as normal under the current circumstances."

Lavrov said Russian withdrawal depended "first of all, on the return of Georgian troops" to their permanent bases.

"This still hasn't happened. Every day several episodes still occur when our servicemen detain Georgian troops" who haven't returned to their bases as agreed, he said.

Also Tuesday, Russia and Georgia exchanged 20 prisoners of war in an effort to reduce tensions. Two Russian military helicopters landed in Igoeti, where Georgian Security Council head Alexander Lomaia told reporters that 15 Georgians and five Russians were exchanged. "It went smoothly," he said. The operation also witnessed by Russian Maj. Gen. Vyacheslav Borisov, who commands troops in the area.

But wait, we're not done just yet.

TBILISI (Reuters) - A roll of explosions at a Russian-occupied military base this week sent a clear Kremlin message to Georgia about the frailty of its infant military and its prospects for NATO membership.

The Russian army destroyed a hoard of Georgian arms and ammunition captured in a brief war that saw Georgian forces scattered, their bases seized and equipment carried off.

"Of course, there was a great symbolism to them doing this at the Senaki base," said Professor Tornike Sharashenidze of the Georgian Institute for Public Affairs.

"In their eyes Senaki was a bit of NATO that they just don't want to see in Georgia."

Senaki, in western Georgia, was a 'showpiece' base built to NATO specifications under a military buildup launched by President Mikheil Saakashvili after his 2003 "Rose Revolution".

Barracks were of a level of comfort unfamiliar to Russian soldiers, facilities and equipment were NATO-style, many of its soldiers trained in alliance countries.

"It's all wrecked now," Deputy Defence Minister Batu Kutelia told Reuters. "The buildings, the arms, all gone. If you consider that this is one of the few such modern bases we have, this was very important for us."

Witnesses saw Russian troops, who had earlier parried a Georgian attack on the pro-Russia rebel region of South Ossetia and thrust into Georgia's heartland, remove crates of equipment at other bases, airports and ports throughout the country.

Colonel-General Anatoly Nogovitsyn, deputy head of Russia's General Staff, employed a military directness.

"We will not leave a single barrel, a single cartridge for Georgia, which initiated this bloodshed and shot at our peacekeepers and...civilians in South Ossetia," he told Interfax agency. What was not destroyed would be taken as war trophies.

"We will take everything we need. It's our trophy," the Russian military source said. "We must also make sure that no military threat comes from bordering areas."

So apparently a ceasefire in Russian means taking of prisoners and the looting and destruction of opposition military bases.

[Kuya]

I can just imagine Putin smirking through all of this.

[Brill Weave]

I can just Putin smirking while doing a line of coke off a hot Russian stripper's ass through all of this. Yeaaaaaaaaah boooooooooiii.

Sorry, I'm bored.

[Kuya]

The hooker should be dead. Remember that he's ex-KBG.

[Beckwin]

XD at the Bush spokesman in Crawford complaining about Russia taking too long to withdraw.

Give 'em at least 5 years guys. At least.

[guartz]

http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/18497

good article, he manages to reiterate what I've been saying without any speculation that I'm prone to.



also from a dif. article
"Karl Marx once wrote, "Hegel remarks somewhere that all great, world-historical facts and personages occur, as it were, twice. He has forgotten to add: the first time as tragedy, the second as farce." He wrote these words in his opening paragraph of a study of the 1851 coup of Louis Bonaparte of France. The essence of the argument made by Marx is that although "Men make their own history, ... they do not make it as they please; they do not make it under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past." (Of course, men in this instance means humanity, not a specific gender.) From where I sit, this argument of Marx's has proven itself true over and over again."
-Ron Jacob's

[GRT]

XD at the Bush spokesman in Crawford complaining about Russia taking too long to withdraw.

Give 'em at least 5 years guys. At least.

i seriously lol'ed when i saw this on tv

[Rivieras]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080820/...nato_norway_dc


Remind me again why we call them grownups?

Everyone "You can't do that, it's wrong!"

Russia "Fine, we're not playing together anymore!"

Fat kid in the sandbox again.

[Kang]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd1AfNA3bQo

Something fishy here.