georgia and russia at war

[Churchill]

It's Americas fault.

[wintersquall]

as long as they destroy atlanta, i'm ok with this.

[Kuya]

So if what I'm reading is correct. What started out as the Russians "protecting" it's citizens is now turning into Russia branching out and attacking areas that are not disputed and are recognized as Georgian cities. The Russians response is that they are trying to "force" the Georgians to solve things diplomatically.

Then everything is going just as planned.

[guartz]

Ok read up on it. They are attempting to break away from Georgia. As a result the Russians issued roughly half the citizens of South Ossetia Russian Passports. So now the Russians can use the passports as a reason to intervene. Except now according to the Georgian media, the Russians have made attacks against cities that are firmly Georgian and have no citizens with Russian passports.

So if what I'm reading is correct. What started out as the Russians "protecting" it's citizens is now turning into Russia branching out and attacking areas that are not disputed and are recognized as Georgian cities. The Russians response is that they are trying to "force" the Georgians to solve things diplomatically.

Russians deny that is happening, but

branching out? You are making it seem like they want to conquer georgia. I think they are just picking targets so they can safely move into south ossetia. I'm sure more bombings of facilities will happen, something similar to Shock and Awe.

Like I said earlier, russians will route or destroy georgian army. This is what "forcing" diplomacy means. Unlike in america, russian government is very direct in its intentions.

edit: oh I forgot to mention that there is a U.N charter or something that allows nations to station troops in bordering countries if there is conflict there. So russian presence is legal, since georgia borders russia. Combine that with the fact georgian artillery killed russian peacekeeping troops, legal justification are there to occupy s. ossetsia

[Xavier]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2...fighting_N.htm

The Russians were allowed to send troops in as peacekeepers, not soldiers, and not to be stationed at military facilities supporting the South Ossetia separatists.

The comment about branching out was almost certainly a reference to the fact that Russia has attacked Georgian cities outside of the South Ossetia region, meaning this is no longer a localized conflict and that the Russian military is inside of Georgian territory attacking its cities.

The Russian warplanes appeared to have been targeting a military base in Gori's outskirts that also was bombed.

The Interior Ministry said Russian warplanes also bombed the Vaziani military base on the outskirts of the Georgian capital of Tbilisi and struck near the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline. The ministry said two other military bases were hit, and that Russian warplanes also bombed the Black Sea port city of Poti, which has a sizable oil shipment facility.

I'm sorry, but Georgia didn't attack another country, they attacked themselves. Russia in turn mobilized its military to the border and began attacking Georgian cities. I realize its an incredibly complicated situation because of the actions Russia took with the South Ossetia people, offering them what amounts to citizenship, but it doesn't make the territory Russian.

[HAcoreRD]

when i read the title i thought of the state of Georgia VS Russia.

I immediately laughed.

[Kuya]

offering them what amounts to citizenship, but it doesn't make the territory Russian.

HAHAHAHA- nevermind it's not the same.

[Atlasion]

I see a lot of people saying that Georgia is the aggressor. Its not really that simple.

South Ossetia has a large Russian population, there was also some news a long time ago about Georgians fleeing the area due to instability. There is a strong seperatist movement who are backed by Russia. South Ossetia held an unoffical referendum and claimed independance. Georgian army and South Ossetia rebels clash a lot, Russia sends in 'peace keepers'. Both Georgia and Russia begin preparing for war, flying planes at each other etc. What sparked this off was Georgia and South Ossetia rebels agreeing to a ceasefire, then Georgia launching a surprise attack. Russia moved in lots of tanks and they began fighting.

So it depends on how you look at it, mainly if you accept South Ossetia as being independant or not. I don't see South Ossetia as being independant, so Georgia are just reclaiming territory. Russia has been playing it smart, backing the rebels and waiting for an oppurtunity to move in.

They'll probably fight it out for a while then agree to a ceasefire that involves Georgia losing South Ossetia. NATO will be reluctant to get involved, same with most other countries. There isn't much strategical advantage to South Ossetia. Russia will obviously block any action with its VETO in the UNSC.

The BBC site has a nice comparison of armed forces:

GEORGIA
Total personnel: 26,900
Main battle tanks (T-72): 82
Armoured personnel carriers: 139
Combat aircraft (Su-25): Seven
Heavy artillery pieces (including Grad rocket launchers): 95

RUSSIA
Total personnel: 641,000
Main battle tanks (various): 6,717
Armoured personnel carriers: 6,388
Combat aircraft (various): 1,206
Heavy artillery pieces (various): 7,550

[Kuya]

Question, what's the difference between Georgia-South Ossetia situation and the Serbia-Kosovo situation? Is there a reason why the independence movement in Kosovo is more legitimate than the South Ossetia one?

[Atlasion]

Question, what's the difference between Georgia-South Ossetia situation and the Serbia-Kosovo situation? Is there a reason why the independence movement in Kosovo is more legitimate than the South Ossetia one?

I don't know an awful lot about it, but I think Yugoslavis broke up more along ethnicity lines, then it was just a case of further breaking along those same lines, make worse by the whole ethnic cleansing thing by the Serbians. The two groups really didn't get along (I don't think any of the ethnic groups in that area like each other).

With South Ossetia I think it was more like it was a part of Georgia that had Georgians and Russians as the main groups. Due to pro Russian feelings and Russian backed rebels a lot of the Georgians left. So Georgia was left with an area right next to Russia, made up of mainly Russians who wanted to join Russia.

Edit: As for legality. Due to the Kosovo war, and NATOs swift (and illegal) intervention, more states were willing to reconise Kosovo as an independant state. South Ossetia doesn't have that sympathy or support by the West.

[Xavier]

Point of view, mostly.

[Kuya]

With South Ossetia I think it was more like it was a part of Georgia that had Georgians and Russians as the main groups. Due to pro Russian feelings and Russian backed rebels a lot of the Georgians left. So Georgia was left with an area right next to Russia, made up of mainly Russians who wanted to join Russia.

The thing is, if i'm reading things properly, most Serbians were displaced from Kosovo after being taken over by the Ottoman Empire leading to the flourishing of the Albanian population in Kosovo, i just find this whole situation highly convulted and silly. The US backs Kosovo, while Russia opposes it, and Russia backs South Ossetia, while the US seems to be indifferent.

[pohibaba]

Interestingly enough President Bush and Senator Obama have pretty much agreed on this issue, with McCain offering a different opinion. Bush and Obama are calling on both sides to negotiate with each other and to come to some sort of peace. McCain, on the other hand, is putting all of the blame on Russia and is aggressively calling for them to remove their troops.

[Kuya]

Call me crazy, but lately i've noticed that Bush has sort of changed his "tune", i can only presume it's due to his term ending and him trying to leave on a less sour note, unless this situation where the president suddenly does more decent and praiseworthy things at the end of his term is a common practice for all presidents.

[Dalecia]

I've been watching this for awhile now, but haven't noticed the seriousness of the issue till today. It looks like this is turning slowly into a NATO vs. Russia issue.

[Shuvo]

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=1&gl=us

lol

[Churchill]

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=1&gl=us

lol

this is the funniest question i have ever heard
thank you bush for "No child left behind program"
but seriously please don't worry Russians are very compassionates towards mentally challenged.

* 18 hours ago

lol, classic.

[Kuya]

lol

[Ace-o-fire]

haha holy shit...

[pohibaba]

That's gotta be a troll, right?