georgia and russia at war

[Quicklet]

Who didn't see this coming, given all the power-grabs Putin has made? But really, Russia is a shell of its former self and it's only going to shoot itself in the foot if they try to re-absorb ex-Soviet countries. Ukraine has already stated that if Russia used ships deployed in Ukrainian ports to attack Georgian ships, they wouldn't be welcomed back in port.

I hope Putin gets put in his place finally, this shit is ridiculous.

...Not to mention if they had mistimed their airport bombing and god forbid killed a French foreign minister, imagine how much worse the situation would be. They are just going to alienate most of Europe and the U.S. by doing this.

[Brill Weave]

Conversation started out well Guartz. Now you're kind of tailing off a bit. It doesn't matter that North Ossetia is Russian territory. We're talking about South Ossetia, part of Georgian territory. Russia has absolutely no business invading Georgia. If the world worked how you're suggesting it, Mexico would be invading California any day now.

Russia will come out of this looking like the complete aggressor because in the end, they sent their armed forces into a foreign country. They now are completely rejecting what the Georgian government is saying(ie peace talks etc) and continuing their attacks.

You're not "peacekeepers" if you're actively attacking cities and soldiers within their own sovereign nation. You are an invading force. Period.

The only time the United States has sent any form of it's military into a foreign country to protect US citizens was in Grenada(at least to my knowledge.) And that brought about widespread criticism and condemnation from long time US allies, namely the UK and Canada, as well as the world in general. And for the record the invasion of Grenada was never about the US citizens there.

It was about the construction of an airport that the US deemed Soviet militarization because it had a longer runway and oil storage facilities which of course meant it was going to be a Soviet airbase(sarcasm here btw.)

[Brill Weave]

Doing what was necessary would be offering asylum to South Ossetians or actively transporting Russians out of the territory. Not sending tanks into another nation and escalating a war.

/thread.

[evilbau]

McCain coming out stronger than Obama or Bush on this, your call if hes playing politics.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540...38376#26138376

[Mugekuge]

Who didn't see this coming, given all the power-grabs Putin has made? But really, Russia is a shell of its former self and it's only going to shoot itself in the foot if they try to re-absorb ex-Soviet countries. Ukraine has already stated that if Russia used ships deployed in Ukrainian ports to attack Georgian ships, they wouldn't be welcomed back in port.

I hope Putin gets put in his place finally, this shit is ridiculous.

...Not to mention if they had mistimed their airport bombing and god forbid killed a French foreign minister, imagine how much worse the situation would be. They are just going to alienate most of Europe and the U.S. by doing this.

I think Putin and Bush needs to be put in their place already, i don't see a difference between invading Georgia and the Irak invasion.

UN is the most useless organization worlwide.

[Quicklet]

I think Putin and Bush needs to be put in their place already, i don't see a difference between invading Georgia and the Irak invasion.

If you can't see a difference between this and Iraq, go back to school. Two completely different sets of circumstances.

[Brill Weave]

UN is the most useless organization worlwide.

I will wholeheartedly agree with this statement.

[Mugekuge]

If you can't see a difference between this and Iraq, go back to school. Two completely different sets of circumstances.

Iraq or Irak both are good written, both countries (Russia and Usa) invaded 2 countries without reasons (yea yea, mass destruction weapons never found in Irak) and Russia imo should have only protect Osetia, not attack Georgia so far as they have atm (i think Georgia capital was attacked already).

[Brill Weave]

I'm not sure if the capital has been attacked yet. But it certainly sounds like it's about to happen. I wouldn't be surprised if the Georgians pulled an emergency recall on all of their soldiers in Iraq. I'm pretty shocked they haven't done so already. Peacekeeping on foreign soil vs. Defending your nation? Seems like a no brainer.

[aurik]

They already have removed a good portion of their troops from Iraq.

[Kuya]

McCain coming out stronger than Obama or Bush on this, your call if hes playing politics.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540...38376#26138376

Only in 1 minute so far, and i like what i presume to be a tougher stance towards this whole situation, but as soon as he mentioned the whole one of the first Christian nations of... i couldn't help but to want to shut it off right then and there.

[Brill Weave]

They already have removed a good portion of their troops from Iraq.

They already yanked out 1,000 of the 2,000 troops they have there. I'm just saying I wouldn't be shocked if they pulled out the remaining 1k troops.

[Mugekuge]

Putin was declaring that US planes were helping Georgian troops to return.

[evilbau]

America: international enemy and target of criticism until help is needed

http://www.newsweek.com/id/151970

[Kuya]

Well, at least the Georgians are actually asking for help, instead of some nation unilaterally deciding to invade another on a hunch then claiming it was to free people whom did not ask for it. Has Obama made any comments at all, or should i just jump on McCain's wagon now?

[evilbau]

Obama has stuck with his position on foreign policy matters: bring in the world community, apply pressure with allies, a coalition, etc.

Funny enough GWB is saying similar things. Maybe he learned his lesson, but I think its because Russia is a big dog he can't bully like he could with Iraq

[Atlasion]

Putin was declaring that US planes were helping Georgian troops to return.

This is true. The US transported the Georgian troops home.

A lot of Western countries actually rely on the US to transport troops and equipment. Mainly equipment as troops can be shoved onto commercial airliners.

The UK only has a few aircraft carriers. And those things are tiny compared to the big US ones. They can barely fit a runway on them. I think we got some new contract to build a few massive ones though. Theres been a lot of talk recently about ending our reliance on US to move stuff for us (for the EU in general).

[Brill Weave]

Putin was declaring that US planes were helping Georgian troops to return.

The US has agreements in place to transport any foreign troop back to his/her home country if they are an active participant in a US led war/battle/occupation. One of the lesser known things about the "war." Putin is kind of grasping at straws if he's pulling this out, because if I'm not mistaken the US were the ones who originally delivered the Georgian equipment to Iraq etc.

The better question to ask is why are the Russians splitting the country down the middle, well away from South Ossetia. I am starting to believe that the Russians are going to attempt to pretty much wipe out the Georgian government while the rest of the world sits and does nothing.

[Churchill]

The US moved the troops yes, which is our way of supporting Georgia through other means.

Personally, I can't say who is right, I don't live in South Ossetia, but from what I can gather the people there and to the northwest (Starts with a K, won't bother to look it up sorries) don't want to be part of Georgia. Russia is enabling those provinces to gain their sovereignty by pushing out Georgian troops. There has been a large rebel faction in these areas for a long time.

The government of Georgia is also being accused of war crimes in South Ossetia (genocide) and Putin is comparing this to taking out Saddam. I think in the end, even if they choose to not militarily remove the President, they will certainly discredit him and his bid for a slot in NATO. Russia is also being very smart in that, by moving a lot of troops into the region, they have more to concede once negotiations do start.

I don't see South Ossetia or the other province remaining in Georgian hands, I also see a lot of the Georgian military being incapacitated and a peacekeeping presence of Russian soldiers left in the two aforementioned provinces. If Russia stopped their advance, they'd have nothing to bargain with so this plays better for them.

Whether the claims of genocide are true or not, I don't know. I know that there have been a lot of civilian casualties thus far due to bombings but they've been more collateral damage so to speak since Russia has been extremely non-Russian in terms of only attacking military targets and infrastructure.

I want to side with Russia in this even if above everything else their ultimate intention was to power play the region and get rid of a pro-west government. I can see why they wouldn't want a NATO ally right next to them in the Caspian considering the US's foreign policy and tendency to build airbases and put troops places. The Caspian area is also pretty important since Russia supplies a good deal of oil to Europe.

[Enkidu]

So now what kind of chance does Georgia have of being integrated into NATO? Could Russia have been pushing buttons getting separatists groups ready to fight just to start all this shit so Georgia would lose a lot of the ground it made to getting in NATO?

I believe Russia threatened military force if Georgia got in NATO, so it's not all that unbelievable... Or maybe Georgia is playing Russia in an attempt to look in danger and get more sympathy from NATO... Personally I don't think Russia would fall for the dupe.