The Campaign Continues! (08/15/2008)

[LinktheDeme]

All I have to say is the people that will be complaining about the bard botters will be complaining next patch. HALP THERES TOO MANY PEOPLE ACTUALLY KILLING MOBS IN MY CAMPAIGN AND IT DOESNT LAST LONG ENOUGH. If you guys wanna QQ over botters who arent effecting you go to a bastok area they need help.

[Faithe]

I don't shower either. I mean shit, I'm just going to be dirty again tomorrow

What kind of retarded comparison is that?

You get a benefits from showering, people like you more when you go out. Hey, if you are 24/7ing in the basement on FFXI then whatever, don't take a shower. No one cares.

What the hell do you get from contributing in campaign?

Do I get more exp? NO.

Do I get more AN? NO.

What's the point then? At least besieged force us to contribute because of AC.

But who cares about campaign other than a couple of OPS?

[Cow_k]

The problem is that you can sit there, turn on your singbot and walk away and never lift a finger to get to level 75. No matter what anyone says, that's a problem and if you whining lazy /brd people want to blame anyone for the change you can blame them. REGARDLESS it was never an intention to have every job sing to 75 and you know it. Perhaps a decent fix for low level seeking? Maybe, but you knew from the start it was an exploit and that some day it would probably be dealt with. You should be grateful you had this much time to gain whatever levels you wanted by putting in so very little work.

[Kaslo]

What kind of retarded comparison is that?

You get a benefits from showering, people like you more when you go out. Hey, if you are 24/7ing in the basement on FFXI then whatever, don't take a shower. No one cares.

What the hell do you get from contributing in campaign?

Do I get more exp? NO.

Do I get more AN? NO.

What's the point then? At least besieged force us to contribute because of AC.

But who cares about campaign other than a couple of OPS?

I care about being able to tele to different zones to do various shit, I can't when my nation (Sandy for Iron Ram Gear) doesn't control a zone so Sandy is always under attack.

[arus2001]

Despite my zeal on defending the option, I'm cool with SE not liking it and planning to adjust. They've kinda given us a warning so those that may wanna 37 a job they didn't really have interest in it can try to get it out of the way before the patch. Past SE history unfortunately suggests that a job that requires a scalpel is often tended to with a machete. I'm for game progression, emphasizing inclusion as opposed to regression, centered on exclusion. Sometimes they seem like they get that idea, others it feels like we take three steps back.

To those vehemently against /brd now, however, what would be a reasonable amount of all jobs capable solo EXP in a 3-4 hour play session? 5k? 7k? 10k? Would you make it luck based and thrive on farming drops or even buying crap off the AH? Something more static where a ??? pops at 5 or so possible points? Just what is the happy medium between the mindless TP burn and sitting in your MH with your thumb up your ass because you were unfortunate enough to like or even prefer an "out" job? What if you're done with all missions, finished most pertinent quests, and don't really have anything left to buy from the AH that doesn't thrive on some other outside source like Abjurations or Salvage? Would you throw a fit if a 75 could manage 10k/hr in Campaign?

As evidenced in countless other aspects of the game, everyone has a level of "not worth it!" in terms of investment and rewards. This can suck if you don't think something like a Hagun is worth 3 mil in today's economy, but the time it would take to score one from an ENM could also take months. Nevermind hoping the people you run with wouldn't wanna sell and split the gil instead. Do you play the odds? Do you just chip away at the price tag? Doing both isn't always an option. Hell, that's my personal demon regarding the Kraken Club BC. I'd love it for my DRK, but fuck if nobody will help without the promise of splitting payment after it sells.

[Charismatic]

2-box and MPK yourself over and over, turn in tags, repeat.
Take a lesson from the haters.


And you get exp for 2 characters at once, how awesome is that?

[Tempyst]

Would you throw a fit if a 75 could manage 10k/hr in Campaign?

if he does something other than sit on his ass and sing worthless songs to do it that would be 100% cool

[Cutriss]

i think the entire expansion was a waste of my money. I have the lowest rank on Myrla and I haven't even bothered with starting the cutscenes on Elph. So yeah, I'm bitter than Campaign not only gives me 3-4 fps, but all these /brd people lag me out even more.

Turn off your bard effects or shut the fuck up already.

My PC was built in 2004 and it runs the game fine at 1280x1024, /BRD botters and all.

Old complaint is old.

[Max™]

Difference is that buff spamming is leeching off of SE's design, afking in a party is leeching off your party member's efforts. Again, as I mentioned before, someone leveling a subjob up only using exp scrolls from 20-37 certainly hasn't formed any parties, nor experienced the job they are leveling up.

Difference is, someone that levels a sub 20-37 with exp scrolls ACTUALLY DID IT THEMSELVES.

That's what this amounts too, lots of people took the time out to level jobs and reap the benefits that comes from having that versatility, and as childish as it may sound, it's unfair that suddenly people can get the same result without even having to be in the same room.

You can't nerobot scroll quests, you generally won't be allowed to stand around afk in parties from 1-75, yet I remember when Bastok was under siege 24/7 that there were a few people who I'd see standing around in lvl 40ish gear for one job, and near the end before we pushed the Quads back out of the city, they were wearing Walahra turbans and other gear for that job.

I doubt they ever really did anything with the character except check now and then to see if they had been MPKed (tee hee), so they went off, watched TV, played other games, slept, all sorts of stuff, and got a lvl 75 job out of it.

Sounds like a pretty sweet deal huh?

Except it was people that chose to just sit around and do that which made it such a pain to get anything done in Markets [S], and are now doing it in Sandy/Waters [S] probably as we speak.

[Jaffar]

Sounds right to me. Consider that most of the people who post here probably have something of the Protestant work ethic in them, which means if you want something, you're going to have to work for it. The risks involved in obtaining some scrolls is small, but it's a risk that means you have to invest a fair share of attention into the matter as well as a considerable amount of time and effort purchasing the equipment and spells that would make this trip possible; also, that seems to be the logic behind the design of SE's scroll quests, so players feel as though they're running the gauntlet and observing the spirit of the rules. So if I use my fully-geared out NIN 75 to get scrolls for my RDM subjob that's never seen any real action, then yes, that's legitimately-gained experience. It's like using the funds I've earned from my job to [help] pay my way through grad school: I've already worked for my reward, and how I choose to spend and use it is my own business.

And as Maxx has already said, /BRD gives you no practical experience (as far as 'practical experience' can go in a game) because not only is /BRD not considered to be a normal SJ, but by song-spamming, you're not performing any of the duties that your job requires: you're not tanking as a PLD/NIN/WAR, you're not fighting as a MNK/DRK/DRG/SAM...etc, you're not casting spells as a WHM/BLM/RDM, and you're not doing...whatever it is that BSTs are supposed to do when they're not soloing. You're just sitting there spamming songs on yourself (which is not practical for any job, even BRD), and while your character might be gaining experience, you the player are learning nothing about the job itself.

I narrowed your quote down, since it was very long & appeared to miss my point entirely- max said that people are not experiencing the jobs they are leveling up via /brd, and I pointed out that neither are the people who level them up via exp scroll quests. Your point about risking exp on your ninja to get that scroll still doesn't mean you experienced rdm, which he seems to think is the crime here.

I've also already said that its leeching off SE's game design, and while its something that probably should be fixed, I simply feel there a lot bigger issues in game right now that should be addressed before something like this. The fact that there's so many people cheering this action on is sad too, you'd of thought SE fixed something important.

[Jaffar]

Difference is, someone that levels a sub 20-37 with exp scrolls ACTUALLY DID IT THEMSELVES.

Some people /brd are actually DOING IT THEMSELVES... sorry, but just about everything in this game can be botted. Wether its fishing, crafting, farming, camping/claiming, or even gasp, exping on mobs outside of campaign.

[Max™]

Remember there are two Max's involved here, Max™ and Maxx.

My concern is simply that it's akin to buying a character with the jobs already leveled, not even because you quit once and wanted to come back into a leveled character or some shit... just because you didn't feel like leveling it.

Yeah, they are technically doing it, but they could also be doing something to contribute, I get even more irrationally angry at the people who move when I try to mpk the groups.

"You mean to tell me you're sitting there on Nin/Drg/Rdm/Blm/Pld/Whm/Etc 70~75 and just /Brding for exp instead of helping us get these fucking turtles out of our city?"

[Seraph]

I've also already said that its leeching off SE's game design, and while its something that probably should be fixed, I simply feel there a lot bigger issues in game right now that should be addressed before something like this.

It's not what they are doing, it's how they are doing it. If every /BRD bot made a party and ran around singing misc songs for the people fighting, you can damn well bet that almost every player would get pissed when they leave.

What the /BRDs do now is nothing. They sit around, lag people out, and do nothing. All I hear is pisspoor justification for it reflecting the "It's my $12.95" bullshit.

It like listening to worthless trash spout crap about why they should get welfare. The people who are worth a damn suffering so that others can get something for nothing. It's a disappointing attitude, and far too many people have it.

Contribute something. Be worth a damn. Be a team player in a damn teamwork based game. What's in it for you? A reputation of something else besides failure.

[Spider-Dan]

The people who are worth a damn suffering so that others can get something for nothing. It's a disappointing attitude, and far too many people have it.

Equally disappointing is the attitude that someone off minding their own business is somehow a personal affront to you.

Get rid of the /BRDing and these people will not be helping you instead. They will be off in some other zone, ostensibly participating in an activity that's worthwhile. YOU will be just as bad off as YOU were before; in all likeliness, you'll be worse off (as collateral damage from whatever nerf they implement).

In other words, you still won't be getting buffed or cured, but you can still crack a smile over the thought that even though you're just as bad off as you were before, at least someone else is now worse off than you are.

[Cow_k]

You're missing the point. We don't care if you won't be there anymore, it's the fact that you benefit from doing the same thing we are the legit way while you exploit it for slightly less/the same/greater rewards.

It's a little like earning medals in the military. You can work hard to earn them, or you can take them from your dead grandfather and claim that they were yours. It's not like you're taking anyone elses medals right? So who are you hurting by wearing them around claiming that their yours? Yay for real life exploits!

[Maxxthepenguin]

Equally disappointing is the attitude that someone off minding their own business is somehow a personal affront to you.

Get rid of the /BRDing and these people will not be helping you instead. They will be off in some other zone, ostensibly participating in an activity that's worthwhile. YOU will be just as bad off as YOU were before; in all likeliness, you'll be worse off (as collateral damage from whatever nerf they implement).

In other words, you still won't be getting buffed or cured, but you can still crack a smile over the thought that even though you're just as bad off as you were before, at least someone else is now worse off than you are.

...now we're supposed to feel sorry for /brds?

You can fucking play the game without exploits.

[Not Kuno]

This doesn't matter anymore because they're nerfing it. Stop being stupid everybody, I'm really dissapointed.

[Septimus]

I need to abuse my mod powers to make one more note to this.

For the people who think that their efforts to help in Campaign with their Bard sub jobs were not appreciated, there is a game developed for your idea of of involvement.

Please, go check it out.