Gravity resist build-up on Zipacna

[Amok]

Less than two weeks ago I duo'd Zip with a friend (rdm/nin + smn/whm). It was my first time fighting it low-man startegy wise. Two things really surprised me:
1) with 6/8 in enfeebling and 1/5 in ice accuracy only one bind got resisted out of god knows how many.
2) gravity was used about 6-8 times and not one got resisted nor did I notice a big drop in duration.

Obviously my questions are about #2.
How many times does it usually take before zip completely resists?
Does it matter that grav wasn't cast consecutively but with pauses and different elements cast in between?

[Tsuko_Asura]

Less than two weeks ago I duo'd Zip with a friend (rdm/nin + smn/whm). It was my first time fighting it low-man startegy wise. Two things really surprised me:
1) with 6/8 in enfeebling and 1/5 in ice accuracy only one bind got resisted out of god knows how many.
2) gravity was used about 6-8 times and not one got resisted nor did I notice a big drop in duration.

Obviously my questions are about #2.
How many times does it usually take before zip completely resists?
Does it matter that grav wasn't cast consecutively but with pauses and different elements cast in between?

One thing to keep in mind when it comes to Zipacna is level range. Your Binds were likely the result of a low-end Zipacna spawn.

As for Gravity, if you were spacing them out, you wouldn't notice a drastic decrease in duration, and from my experience, NMs like that have never gotten to the point where Gravity just flat out won't land. Its always been my understanding that the worst it gets is having Gravity wear off the second it lands.

[Wizerd]

One thing to keep in mind when it comes to Zipacna is level range. Your Binds were likely the result of a low-end Zipacna spawn.

As for Gravity, if you were spacing them out, you wouldn't notice a drastic decrease in duration, and from my experience, NMs like that have never gotten to the point where Gravity just flat out won't land. Its always been my understanding that the worst it gets is having Gravity wear off the second it lands.

They will most definitely resist after 4-6 consecutive casts depending on your enfeebling skill and magic accuracy.

[drwaffles]

I'd say it's more like 8+ on Zipacna, Gravity is easy as fuck to land on him. Faust would be a better example of something that will build resistance to Gravity very quickly.

[Wizerd]

I'd say it's more like 8+ on Zipacna, Gravity is easy as fuck to land on him. Faust would be a better example of something that will build resistance to Gravity very quickly.

Gravity isn't easy as fuck to land on Zipacna unless you're specifically comparing it to bitch-ass mobs like Faust. <_<

Easy as fuck to land on is Despot, that thing will take a good 15-20 gravities before it starts losing significant duration. Zipacna's just a whore without Duelist's Chapeau. :/

[Octavious]

Every experience I've had with Zipacna hasn't resulted in a complete gravity resist yet, but i've seen it on Faust rather quickly. I've done Zipacna 3-4x and it can get a little hairy if a bind doesn't last full duration when kiting, but Gravity shouldn't be completely resisted if you have 5/5 Wind too.

Being 5/5 ice/wind 8/8 enfeebling, i only experience the kind of Gravity screwage where it lasts 15sec. This is easily fixed with a quick bind and run but yea...Zipacna can be a bit of a whore sometimes, so anythings possible.

As to the last question, yes it does matter. Repeated casting of gravity should bring the resist rate up rather quickly, but I don't believe it would lead to a full resist with a good enfeebling setup. I'll try it this weekend and see what I can find out to verify. Usually it's a bind->bind->bind, and gravity if bind misses, so i've rarely had to do back to back gravity. I'll test it out though, it's worth a shot.

[Crisco]

Up until Octavious posted people were beating around the bush. You have to know merits and gear before you speculate much on gravity. Having 15+ kills under my belt, I've noticed a few things about Zipacna. Fulls resists happen to anyone at any time. However SE programmed it, randomness will force them eventually, no matter how good you are. And if you're unlucky, randomness might give you back-to-back bind+grav resists and you die...it happens.

Too many consecutive casts of either gravity or bind will build up Zipacna's (or any NM's) resistance exponentially - gravity MUCH more so than bind. And as Octavious also said, Zipacna has a level range which greatly affects its difficulty. It's likely you got the kill on the low end of the range and on a good day. (anything but firesday...)

IMO, you got really lucky. Just dont expect the same results if you continue to go after him w/o fixing those merits.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Too many consecutive casts of Bind? Impossible. I've had fights where I've gotten a few freak resists in the first five minutes, and gone without a single one through the end. If Zipacna were building resistance(in regards to duration and/or success) to Bind, it would be painfully apparent; Moreso in regards to duration. Honestly, it has firm logical basis that way. Gravity is perfectly reliable, and builds resistance quickly, while Bind is a lot less reliable, and does no such thing - Unless of course what you're fighting specifically builds resistant to it.

[Tubbers]

Actually I've noticed what Crisco has said as well. A JP RDM was trying to Solo Zip for about 3 hours. He kept dying and reraising and retrying (I left a mule there to watch him while I was killing Despot PH). Eventually his Bind wore off almost immediately -- EVERY CAST --, and when he gave up and I went to kill it, bind never lasted more than 5 seconds, even with ES Bind on a BLM. I ended up needing to straight tank it on RDM while zone nuking on BLM, Bind and Grav just didn't stick and weren't work casting at all. For the record I have D.Chapeau, Balrahn's, Omega ring, Morrigan's cuffs, etc., and I've killed it plenty of times.

I don't think it has anything to do with consecutive casts at all, more like a very slow building resist, you wouldn't notice it until about 50 bind casts.

[Crizto]

I'd say it's more like 8+ on Zipacna, Gravity is easy as fuck to land on him. Faust would be a better example of something that will build resistance to Gravity very quickly.

Faust doesn't build resistance to Gravity fast at all. If you've ever fought him then you'd know that you cast Gravity a lot because of 2 second Binds. I have never had trouble with Gravity on Faust even towards the end of the fight where I may have used it up to 15 times.

I've never had any experience with Zip resisting gravity, because I've only cast it a maximum of 5 times in one fight, but even then I saw no difference between the first and last gravity.

[Tsuko_Asura]

If he was wiping and retrying, any resistance would have worn off.

[fishstix]

If he was wiping and retrying, any resistance would have worn off.

Only if it regened to full? To me, the fastest duo will be a chainspell bind, manafont nuke while gravity is on. If you can't kill it in that volley, you'd at least knock a good portion of his HP off. I normally 2box a blm and nuke/zone taking about 15 minutes. With a smn + rdm duo, once you get your merits up, it should be rather easy. Solo it normally focusing on using bind, poison2, and bio2/3. Use the smn as extra bonus damage by bloodpacting without assaulting Zippy so bind won't break until the BP. Make sure the rdm is far away when this happens and try to anticipate TP moves. Trying to BP while gravity is on seems to rely too much on gravity, which is bad imo.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but do people here prefer m.acc or int? Or should I adjust my int (or m.acc) value based on Zippy's spawn level. My bind setup consists of 69+41 INT before food, including Aquilo's staff, 314 enfeebling skill, 11 m.acc, and 5/5 ice accuracy. Lately, I've traded my int5 Yigit's gloves for M.acc5 Morrigan cuffs and it's hard to tell what kind of difference it's made without knowing exactly Zippy's level, effect of the current day, freak resist, or if he's just moody that day. It seems~ though, that although I get less resists where it doesn't land, in general I seem~ to be getting shorter bind durations. Again, this is just eyeballing it, so idk.

Improvements I can possibly make include enfeebling earring to swap in for Loq, +1 Phantom Earring, Morrigan slops, Altruistic cape (reps Gleeman's cape), and Omega's ring (to rep either Balrahn or Tamas). Other maybe gear I'm iffy about include Avocat Pigaches (would rep Goliard clogs), Elite Beret (reps AF+1), Ice grip, and Master Caster's Brc (reps Morrigan cuffs). I know there's better gear, AF2 hat and ultima legs, but those are unobtainable for me atm D: I have a decent setup with good results, but just trying to tweak mine a little ^^ I'm not sure if I should whore out m.acc, int, or what a good balance is.

Complete setup:
Aquilo's Staff
Bugard strap +1
Phantom Tathlum
Warlock's chapeau +1
Enfeebling torque
Loquacious Earring
Phantom Earring
Warlock's Tabard +1
Morrigan's Cuffs
Balrahn's Ring
Tamas Ring
Gleeman's Cape
Penitent's Rope
Mahatma Slops
Goliard Clogs.

[Thorny]

If he was wiping and retrying, any resistance would have worn off.

Gravity resistance certainly doesn't wear off after a wipe, I've seen this on both other people wiping to zipacna and a failed lowman jailer of faith.. I don't see why bind would be any different.

[Crizto]

I want to say that INT will help with partial resist rates, but I don't have any tests to prove that. In terms of your gear swap ideas; Loq. and Enfeebling Earring would be the best setup because it is able to shave a second off your Bind recast which may save you more than 2 INT can from a Phantom Earring +1. Don't bother getting Elite Beret +1, with your gear as it stand you should have no trouble landing Bind on any Sky NM that can be soloed. You want to take advantage of the Fast Cast and INT to shave off seconds on Bind and possible help w/ partial resists. I'd even keep the Goliard instead of Avocat. Your gear that you have right now is pretty much what I had before I got Chapeau, but I used Altruistic Cape and Nashira Legs.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Gravity resistance certainly doesn't wear off after a wipe, I've seen this on both other people wiping to zipacna and a failed lowman jailer of faith.. I don't see why bind would be any different.

Well, all I have to go on is personal experience. I've killed plenty of Zipacna that had wiped other parties, most of which generally have a mage as the last survivor, spamming Bind and Gravity in a futile attempt to get their group back up and together. As long as I wait for him to go docile, get back to full HP, and start moving around the palace again, I notice no issues with Bind nor Gravity.

He also said that he was dying, reraising, and trying again, so I'm assuming Zipacna went roaming for at least five minutes between each kill. Obviously if you spam Gravity on him, die, and someone instantly grabs your half-dead NM, the resistance hasn't gone anywhere, but in this case, I believe it would have been completely erased.

[Thorny]

340s enfeeb + austers consistantly getting <10 sec gravs on jailer of faith is the product of resistance still being there, not bad luck.

[Tsuko_Asura]

What's the despawn time on JoF? I have to imagine there is a cooldown period that must be met before a NM is 'reset', as it were.

[Thorny]

It's 3 minutes, but it was sacced a couple times so it didn't depop until we realized the resistance wasn't going anywhere.

[Judai]

Zip does NOT build resistence to Bind.. Swear to god, you just got a high level Zip or the person you watched had shit gear/merits. I've solo'd Zip near 40x probably and never once have I had serious problems with Bind. Occassionally you get back to back Bind resists and people assume that means he built resistence because they die after it but it's just shitty luck. (and I don't have AF2 Hat)

He does build resistence to Gravity and I would say it's probably in the area of 8-10 casts or so. Save Gravity for those times he does resist your Bind and it helps alot. If he resists both then hopefully you had Slow2+Para on him and can t2t him for 20s or so until your next Bind cast.

Also, to OP, you got lucky on Bind AND a low level Zip.

[Thorny]

I wasn't saying zip builds resistance to bind, but if gravity resistance doesn't wear off then bind likely doesn't either(at least on the mobs it applies to).