Schools are making kids retarded

[Kaylia]

I think it is longer, because you do the exact same thing as traditional multiplication, except you also need to draw a graph. Maybe the 1/3 was an exaggeration, but I don't see how this would save any time, just make it slightly easier if big numbers scare you.

When I tried it earlier, I just wrote tiny / between my number, and checked the diagonal to be sure I didnt miss any number. Wasn't really much longer. Someone used to it wouldnt need any line to follow their diagonal. Just write a matrix twice the length of your right number, and follow the same pattern to add up your number.

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/1069/diagonalog4.jpg

Of course, kid should stick to "½"style to not get confused . I'm just pointing it can be done just as fast filling up a matrix, without filling the page with useless square/triangle.

You seem to keep ignoring the fact that they are going to teach kids this for 1 digit and 2 digit numbers too.

I don't care if it wasn't intended for that, but that's what they're doing.

Doesnt matter how they write 9*9 = 81, it's going to take 2 sec with any methods. On the side, on top, or around a square...it's the same thing they are doing.

Any kids should be able to do multiplication under 100x100 in their head by the time they reach high school. The method they used to do it on paper doesn't really matter, as long they can do it.

[Bingbong]

My eyes went crossied at the 247 x 38 lattice.

too much junk to get to the answer.

[Maxxthepenguin]

I would be a much better speller if Spell Check had never been invented.

No, Spellcheck has helped me a helluva lot. You have to write the word for it to work and then it tells you your mistakes. That has improved my spelling. Calculators just do the work.

I'm very anti-calculator. Even if you have access to a calculator, doing it in your head improves your general mental faculties and makes you not need to do a lot of BS "processing" math when doing something that requires complex math.

I mean, people are going to have more and more access to the internet, but does that mean we shouldn't teach history? You're not going to need very often, and you'll always have access to a computer.

[Norellicus]

People laughed when someone came up with the idea of doing math front to back (100s -> 1s, instead of the opposite) too, and then it caught on and kids started getting faster at basic equations for it.

The lattice isn't a crutch, it's there to show you what you're actually DOING. If anyone grows up drawing out lattice structures for all their math for the rest of their life, they're doinitrong, but the principle is still sound to get the process to click in the kids' heads.

And this is why calculators aren't used in school, because you need to understand what that calculator is going for you so you can error-correct where needed. You'd also be surprised how much faster you can do complicated equations when you work out the basic math parts in your head and then plug the results into the remainder of the complex equation.

[Tirrock]

This thread has made me feel even worse about my school system. I was never taught the traditional or lattice method of calculation. All we did was memorize multiplications to 12x12 in middle school. Then jumped straight to calculators in high school.

The lattice thing was kind of a neat trick. Took me 5 seconds to learn, and easy to memorize. Granted, I don't need to know it for work, and I usually take my MP3 player with me when I leave the house, which has a calculator and a notepad on it.

[Elcura]

If someone asks me a hard maths question I just say "I don't know" and move on. I encourage your kids to do the same.

[Blabj]

I actually liked the lattice way of learning multiplications because I could visualise it easier than doing simple multiplications and adding them all together. Then again I'm aparently a lot more spacially and visually minded, which might explain a lot.

[Darus Grey]

Seems like most the people "upset" by this might as well be shouting "I'M OLD AND I HATE CHANGE"...cause that's about the only point you can make about disliking this.

[Khamsin]

Why don't they just shift the lattice over one square each row you go down, so the 2nd row is shifted one to the left, and the 3rd row is shifted two to the left, etc.

Then instead of adding diagonally, add straight down each column, and carry each digit over to the next column.

[Eratosthenes]

Hooray for New Math! New-hoo-hoo Math! It won't do you a bit of good to review math! It's so simple, so very simple, that only a child can do it!

[Kaylia]

Why don't they just shift the lattice over one square each row you go down, so the 2nd row is shifted one to the left, and the 3rd row is shifted two to the left, etc.

Then instead of adding diagonally, add straight down each column, and carry each digit over to the next column.

To keep the single digit multiplication answer close most likely. It would be a huge mess to write the swapped matrix I think

Beside, doing this on a simple matrix wouldnt work either

0  1  2                  0  1  2
  6  2  1      ==>          6  2  1
1  3  5                        1  3  5
  6  2  6                         6  2  6

You would need a 6x4 matrix for a 3x2 digits operation, and leave a bunch of empty cell in between numbers.

Is it better like this? Would probably be easier to teach them the method we learned, instead of making them swap the latice around until it looks like the method we used.

[Nikko]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr1qe...eature=related

A video that is complaining about New hoo hoo math and how it is being implemented.

[Aksannyi]

WTF @ that graph thing.

How the hell am I going to help my kids with their math homework when I don't know what the fuck I am looking at? Good lord ...

Homeschooling is looking better and better ...

[Darus Grey]

Learning shouldn't stop just because you stop going to school. It's a life-long process. Being progressive means adapting to changes despite your age and never being "set in your ways".

I.e. start learning it now so you can teach it to your children =)

[Koga]

30x15
Was told to ignore the zero. Multiply 3x15 = 45 then add a 0 at the end.

59x41
Was told to multiply 1 times 9 and place under the 1 and then 1 times 5 and place that under the 4.
Create a new line and ignore the first digit under what would be the 9. Then multiply 4 times 9 for 36. Place the 6 under the 4 from the first line and then carry the 3 on top of the 5. Multiple the 4 times 5 and then add the carried 3. Place on the second line, then add the totals.

So:

  Step 1        Step 2
                
    59           59
   x41          x41
   ---          ---
    59           59
              +236
               ----
               2419

[Aksannyi]

Learning shouldn't stop just because you stop going to school. It's a life-long process. Being progressive means adapting to changes despite your age and never being "set in your ways".

I.e. start learning it now so you can teach it to your children =)

(EDIT: Fuck this turned out long. tl;dr, kids need to learn to deal with the fact that sometimes life is fucking hard.)

I never said I didn't want to stop learning, lol. But why the hell should they change a perfectly good method for multiplication, especially when it means that children are going to be shit out of luck when they ask mommy for help.

You can't deny that they are dumbing down schools these days. Things kids used to learn, they don't anymore, and the methods have all changed. I've even heard that some schools have stopped teaching cursive writing. >< Going too far these days. No child left behind is bullshit, they just make things easier so everyone passes, instead of just FLUNKING the kids who definietly need to stay back to catch up. When I was a kid, that's how it worked. Kids were held back, and everyone benefitted. None of this slowing down so that Billy gets it, or teaching new methods because Sally can't figure the traditional method out.

This is what tutors existed for, or don't we have those anymore? Can't let a kid feel like he's not as good as anyone else, oh no. So that when he gets into the real world thinking he's just as smart as everyone else and gets pwned by his first boss, he just doesn't understand it.

We dealt with disappointment, with losing games, not getting prizes if we weren't the winner, and we are FINE because of it. Everyone gets a prize, how stupid. Now prizes aren't fucking special anymore. Good job, you got first place, but that blue ribbon you got is just the fucking same as the guy who got last place. If your kid gets last place, let him cry, let him be disappointed, encourage him to work harder so he does better next year. Don't fucking give him a prize to make him feel less bad about not being the winnar. Christ. Everything is fucking STUPID these days. And I'm irritated by it.

Some of you younger people are already feeling the effects of this shit. I was just leaving school as this "ZOMG NO ONE CAN FEEL BAD ABOUT LOSING EVAR" kick started to take effect. I swear, it's not doing anyone any favors. People need to learn that they will NOT always be recognized for their efforts, they will NOT always get their way, and they will NOT always be treated like they're a winner even when they're the fucking loser. The world is not fucking cotton candy and rainbows. And no one is benefitting from this but the fucking PARENTS who are too lazy to teach their kids how to deal with disappointment.

FUCK.

This whole thing gets me so angry. Yes, I'm a parent. 4 year old and a 2.5 year old. And I do shudder to think what kind of bullshit they'll be fed in schools now. Yes, it does suck that you didn't win the prize. But you can either cry about it and be emo for a month or you can work harder to improve. Or, you can learn to be okay with the fact that you can't win everything and that you gave your best effort.

Went WAYYYYY off topic here, but seriously the way kids are being brought up now days, it's like we're terrified to let them get even the smallest bruise anymore, to their ego or otherwise. Let the kids grow up the way we did. We turned out fine.

Blah, if I go on anymore I'll go on forever, pretty sure this is all tl;dr anyway.

[Darus Grey]

(EDIT: Fuck this turned out long. tl;dr, kids need to learn to deal with the fact that sometimes life is fucking hard.)

I never said I didn't want to stop learning, lol. But why the hell should they change a perfectly good method for multiplication, especially when it means that children are going to be shit out of luck when they ask mommy for help.

You can't deny that they are dumbing down schools these days. Things kids used to learn, they don't anymore, and the methods have all changed. I've even heard that some schools have stopped teaching cursive writing. >< Going too far these days. No child left behind is bullshit, they just make things easier so everyone passes, instead of just FLUNKING the kids who definietly need to stay back to catch up. When I was a kid, that's how it worked. Kids were held back, and everyone benefitted. None of this slowing down so that Billy gets it, or teaching new methods because Sally can't figure the traditional method out.

This is what tutors existed for, or don't we have those anymore? Can't let a kid feel like he's not as good as anyone else, oh no. So that when he gets into the real world thinking he's just as smart as everyone else and gets pwned by his first boss, he just doesn't understand it.

We dealt with disappointment, with losing games, not getting prizes if we weren't the winner, and we are FINE because of it. Everyone gets a prize, how stupid. Now prizes aren't fucking special anymore. Good job, you got first place, but that blue ribbon you got is just the fucking same as the guy who got last place. If your kid gets last place, let him cry, let him be disappointed, encourage him to work harder so he does better next year. Don't fucking give him a prize to make him feel less bad about not being the winnar. Christ. Everything is fucking STUPID these days. And I'm irritated by it.

Some of you younger people are already feeling the effects of this shit. I was just leaving school as this "ZOMG NO ONE CAN FEEL BAD ABOUT LOSING EVAR" kick started to take effect. I swear, it's not doing anyone any favors. People need to learn that they will NOT always be recognized for their efforts, they will NOT always get their way, and they will NOT always be treated like they're a winner even when they're the fucking loser. The world is not fucking cotton candy and rainbows. And no one is benefitting from this but the fucking PARENTS who are too lazy to teach their kids how to deal with disappointment.

FUCK.

This whole thing gets me so angry. Yes, I'm a parent. 4 year old and a 2.5 year old. And I do shudder to think what kind of bullshit they'll be fed in schools now. Yes, it does suck that you didn't win the prize. But you can either cry about it and be emo for a month or you can work harder to improve. Or, you can learn to be okay with the fact that you can't win everything and that you gave your best effort.

Went WAYYYYY off topic here, but seriously the way kids are being brought up now days, it's like we're terrified to let them get even the smallest bruise anymore, to their ego or otherwise. Let the kids grow up the way we did. We turned out fine.

Blah, if I go on anymore I'll go on forever, pretty sure this is all tl;dr anyway.

I don't deny that they're dumbing down schools, but I don't think this is an example of dumbing down, this is a *better* system imho. Just because it's not what we learned doesn't mean we shouldn't advance. "It works" shouldn't be a justification for using an old system forever, and the reasoning behind this system seems clear to me. Currently and going forward anyone who goes far in math is going to be doing it in relation to computers, and this method prepares children to start thinking like that.

I don't disagree with much of your tl:dr but at same time it really has nothing to do with the subject, since most the people who don't like this system have no logical reason other than the fact that it's "different".

Personally I think you should homeschool your children anyways(assuming you have sufficient means to do so). Homeschooled children develop much faster and are much more knowledgeable on average, they also go to college 2yrs earlier(because there's no reason not to go to school at 15/16 soon as you get your GED). I was homeschooled and got my first degree by time most people were just starting college, it gave me a huge head start at life.

[Grandphoenix]

As a recent HS graduate, the only thing I've used cursive for since elementary was my signature and maybe trying to make a nice letter for a girl. However, besides those situations even print writing is out of date when we can just type to our heart's desires.

I do disagree with some of these methods such as the latices though. During your SAT you don't have time to be drawing box's and all that junk our testing isn't made for that..

[Darus Grey]

You're allowed to have graph paper at the SATs though(or least were when I did them...). Edit: Just looked and you're allowed to have a calculator for the SATs so the whole thing is moot.

I agree on cursive though, cursive is just very out-dated and has no practical applications. If you want to learn cursive learn general calligraphy along with it, which does have a use.

[aurik]

Calculators are useless, all real math is done with symbols.