Regarding Specific Notorious Monsters (AV + PW + JOL)

[Octavious]

I couldn't help but feel that...

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/4079/3124627st9.gif

[Olo401]

and you think this announcement isn't "just A PR" response to the media blitz?

Of course it's a PR response. They have to contain and address the negative publicity that this media shitstorm has created.

That doesn't mean that they're not going to make needed changes to make these fights more reasonable to the player base and its collective health. In fact, they have to because if they don't they're going to continue getting bad publicity and it will eventually affect their bottom line.

I couldn't help but feel that...

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/4079/3124627st9.gif

Fuckin' aces man..

[Maxxthepenguin]

Sundi is universally discounted for his record of incorrect information. Aht Urghan being solo based being the most glaring example.

That decently long before ToAU was released. I'm honestly guessing that they prototyped ideas out for that and it just didn't work as intended. From what I know, they do a lot of prototyping and part of prototyping is seeing what doesn't work.

I'm also guessing that Besieged was originally much more important and prevalent, which is something very soloable.

[Infini]

I couldn't help but feel that...

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/4079/3124627st9.gif

LOL!

This threads epic win atm! XD

[layoneil]

Being a pussy is like totally negative one hundred cool points.

but having one on the other hand...

---

Of course it's a PR response. They have to contain and address the negative publicity that this media shitstorm has created.

That doesn't mean that they're not going to make needed changes to make these fights more reasonable to the player base and its collective health. In fact, they have to because if they don't they're going to continue getting bad publicity and it will eventually affect their bottom line.

i can't tell if you're agreeing with me or not.

[kayn]

It was my understanding that a thread in Advanced is subject to several derails. I'm sorry I can't hold my tongue when someone is bitching about his drops on bullshit NMs in a thread about Absolute Virtue and Pandemonium Warden.

Reading the same shit in a different format is also kind of annoying, but once again, to be expected. Much like, someone's protesting of such, no? So, I filled the vacancy today- someone will take my place I'm sure in the next thread, and someone will fill your spot telling them to shut up too. It's a wonderful picture-perfect puzzle, don't get all flustered and back-pedal on calling me out.

Being a pussy is like totally negative one hundred cool points.

I was just trying to be civil. In light of your great knowledge, you should post something on the BGWiki about the standard layout of our threads then. Be creative and make it funny/interesting. Give us (me?) a decent reason to visit BGWiki after I get bored of the repetitious threads i haven't quite quantified yet.

[Seraph]

I couldn't help but feel that...

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/4079/3124627st9.gif

Why so defeatable?

[Ashira]

No, I would say that a good 50% actually believe that AV could not be defeated, and that PW was intended to be an 18 hour fight. Smart people knew this was wrong, but other people read into far too much crap. I have posted several times about the fact that there were ways to beat them but that we just did not know them, and I got shouted down by a ton of people.

I didn't know any secret at all, I was just noting what I believed to be rather obvious. Being able to note the obvious definitely is not something to be smug about, but seeing people that couldn't put 2 and 2 together finally get put in their place does make me feel a little better. Thats just human nature.

...no wonder people on this forum can't stand you. Your posts are so arrogant and self-righteous.

Everyone KNOWS we didn't know how to beat AV. Hence, since we did not know, it was impossible. Technically, yes, that is not using the correct definition of the word, but to all intents and purposes, it worked. Most anything people could think of to try and did try wasn't successful, and after a while people didn't want to waste the time. That's not very unreasonable.

When PW spawns 20 different forms that take lengths of time to defeat, and then we get the newsflash from Sundi saying AV was intended to be an 18 hour fight, and whatever else saying PW should be fought with shifts of people (which frankly, is rather stupid considering the way enmity and such is coded), it's not people jumping to conclusions of it being an 18 hr fight, but instead thinking 'gdi another freakin' long and very probably fruitless fight.' Then things just get smooshed together and people start talking in these terms of 18hrs etc, and then BtL fights it for 18hrs...

Just because people use things like 'impossible' when talking about AV etc doesn't mean we actually think it is COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE, but that something is just so obscure that it's pointless at this point, which may as well be impossible, because no one's going to try anything.

I wasn't implying that you actually knew any secret, because I know you don't do any of this HNM stuff at all and so would have no opportunity to test any of it. I was making a point, that the way you were posting was very self-righteous, very cat who killed a canary: like posting you knew there was a trick involved somehow, which most everyone else with serious designs on AV and PW, knew and would agree with anyway, was somehow some massive revelation and you are now completely vindicated by SE themselves. You're really not.

I don't think there's anyone I would talk to in these LSes that actually do this/attempt these fights that wouldn't agree there isn't a trick involved. Even Kaeko says (in regards to AV) "at this point, it's impossible.' "At this point," as in, we don't KNOW what the obscure little trick is, and people have analyzed it to death. Not that it's believed it's not intended to be killed at all, not that it's impossible to kill, just that at this point in time for us, with the knowledge we have (from random theories and testing, down to some successful testing with some tactics that still don't make huge differences, to analyzing the video and analyzing what the bugs that USED to make AV killable and how that might possibly transfer to what we need to do otherwise), it just cannot be done.

[Ashira]

If you are going to debate semantics then at least follow the semantics. The first sentence indicated Mocchi and Sundi said that the key to defeating AV was in the video. Then only Sundi is mentioned for the rest of the statements about the length of the fight.

Sundi is universally discounted for his record of incorrect information. Aht Urghan being solo based being the most glaring example. He is just a PR guy that is looking to tell people what he thinks they want to hear. Thats all, and he should be treated as such.

If Sundi was pulling shit out of his ass, wouldn't the other guy have interjected and corrected the statement? Or clarified it at least?

EDIT: Also, as the guy who got the quote was saying, maybe their big hint in the video was that it IS a long fight, and that precisely is why you see the 2hrs being used so often.

[Izzy]

FFXI: Advanced Player Discussion

Where people argue with you just to argue!

[Norellicus]

My money is on rage timers personally~

[Rocl]

FFXI: Advanced Player Discussion

Where people argue with you just to argue!

Hasn't it always been that way?

Being a pussy is like totally negative one hundred cool points.

but having one on the other hand...

Matter of opinion!

[layoneil]

Matter of opinion!

that's why i didn't finish the sentence.

FFXI: Advanced Player Discussion

Where people argue with you just to argue!

i thought that was the internet in general.

[LakshmiToralyn]

prolly adjusting JoL to drop a pop item for AV if anything to break up the length of the fight

[Octavious]

Well when they fix AV and we come to find out that Mjollnir's are the key to defeating him, I want to be the first to send Izzy cake.

[Acturus]

Thinking on semantics... anyone checked to see if the other language versions of PoL site have different wordings?

[Olo401]

FFXI: Advanced Player Discussion

Where people argue with you just to argue!

Hey.. they do put the server drama threads here for a reason.

Anyways here's a thought I just had about the whole JOL thing - what if it's so intertwined with AV in the game's code that changes must be made proportionally? Otherwise it'd mean rewriting both JOL and AV from scratch and that'd be a hassle for those poor SE code monkeys..

[Trigun]

the ONLY way SE can prove to us that we were doing it wrong is if they told us how to do it right

QFT

/hibernatetillseptember

[Rocl]

If you were gay and not asian Sendoh, if only.

[Hiryo]

My money is on rage timers personally~

Eh, i know people can probably do it a lot faster now but, even if they put in rage timers they better be pretty long....

Afaik AV is pretty BS enough to dmg in maybe a 4 hour window and from the recent attempts i cant imagine anything less than an 8 hour rage timer on PW >.>

This is assuming we figure out a trick for a shorter AV. If theres a trick to PW to skip forms then a 4 hour rage timer is probably 100% duable(unless you get khimara and hydra lol).


I'm banking on reduced regen potency on JOL, removal of (maybe just 1 or 2) AV gimmicks, and a method of skipping PW forms that we can actually figure out.