Completed Relic/Mythic weapons list

[Legend]

Hrmph, yesterday in Einherjar we got Ghosts then Flayers, and you best believe every WHM in the ls was wishing they had Yagrush. You just can't keep up with it otherwise. At least shit doesn't get more potent if you get hit with it multiple times.

If you stop suck and let my SCH do your work. I did fine! Hell I wasnt even in the same alliance and I did fine. That's too bad. It's prolly cause you have no Cleric's Belt. <3

[Kenji]

- Dynamis with BST pet spell spam: Blindga, Breakga, Paralyga, Silencega.

Perhaps you aren't reading. If it's spammed, it's not much use in removing, as it's reapplied. Furthermore, you aren't removing silencega, because you're silenced, or the melee can remove it faster with an echo drop, which all good melee should be carrying around. Unless you run with just cheap and crappy players?

If it's not spammed, a SCH can deal with it just fine. And as of this patch, a WHM can deal with it just fine. But let's go through your list, shall we?

- Cerberus: Ululation or unstunned Gates of Hades. SCH or Esuna can handle.
- Hydra: Nerve Gas, Barofield. SCH or Esuna can handle.
- Khimaira: Unstunned Fulmination. SCH and Esuna can handle.
- Tiamat: Tebbad Wing. SCH and Esuna can handle.
- Ouryu: Bai Wing. SCH and Esuna can handle.
- Soulflayers: Tribulation, Immortal Anathema. A joke, right?
- Wyverns: Dread Shriek. SCH can handle easily.

Look, I'm gonna stop there, because you missed the part where I talked about spam. Most of those abilities aren't spammed, and don't happen frequently enough that a SCH can't handle, and in most cases, Esuna. I've already admitted that attack down spam from multiple leeches in einherjar and Dyanmis-Tav, could be benefitted by this. But that's such a small fraction of the game... you'd get use out of it, what, twice a month?

Do *I* need to go on?

In fact, Since Esuna can remove multiple status ailments, it actually proves to be far superior to spending 90 mil, when we can do better for free. I suppose a lazy WHM might want yagrush, if they don't want to think. But you'd be faster removing *multiple* status ailments at a time with Esuna. And *if* you really need to have that status on you to remove, that's what Sacrifice is for.

It could actually make for some nice precision removal. Party has attack down, and various people have other statuses like evasion down, dia, magic attack down, etc. In short, you just want to get the attack down off your melee, and under yagrush, you'll spend several erasgas trying to get to it. Instead, Sacrifice someone who just has attack down, then you can Esuna the party. Much less time and MP spent.

Bottom Line: You're wasting MP if you're spamming status removal, on something that spams (ie, every 15 seconds or less). If it happens less frequently than that (and 95% of aoe statuses happen no more than a minute apart), then a SCH can already handle it. And as of this patch, Esuna will be more efficient at it.

So, why don't we see more Ragnaroks in this thread? It's a great weapon, ya?

[Damane]

Perhaps you aren't reading. If it's spammed, it's not much use in removing, as it's reapplied. Furthermore, you aren't removing silencega, because you're silenced, or the melee can remove it faster with an echo drop, which all good melee should be carrying around. Unless you run with just cheap and crappy players?

If it's not spammed, a SCH can deal with it just fine. And as of this patch, a WHM can deal with it just fine. But let's go through your list, shall we?

- Cerberus: Ululation or unstunned Gates of Hades. SCH or Esuna can handle.
- Hydra: Nerve Gas, Barofield. SCH or Esuna can handle.
- Khimaira: Unstunned Fulmination. SCH and Esuna can handle.
- Tiamat: Tebbad Wing. SCH and Esuna can handle.
- Ouryu: Bai Wing. SCH and Esuna can handle.
- Soulflayers: Tribulation, Immortal Anathema. A joke, right?
- Wyverns: Dread Shriek. SCH can handle easily.

Look, I'm gonna stop there, because you missed the part where I talked about spam. Most of those abilities aren't spammed, and don't happen frequently enough that a SCH can't handle, and in most cases, Esuna. I've already admitted that attack down spam from multiple leeches in einherjar and Dyanmis-Tav, could be benefitted by this. But that's such a small fraction of the game... you'd get use out of it, what, twice a month?

Do *I* need to go on?

In fact, Since Esuna can remove multiple status ailments, it actually proves to be far superior to spending 90 mil, when we can do better for free. I suppose a lazy WHM might want yagrush, if they don't want to think. But you'd be faster removing *multiple* status ailments at a time with Esuna. And *if* you really need to have that status on you to remove, that's what Sacrifice is for.

It could actually make for some nice precision removal. Party has attack down, and various people have other statuses like evasion down, dia, magic attack down, etc. In short, you just want to get the attack down off your melee, and under yagrush, you'll spend several erasgas trying to get to it. Instead, Sacrifice someone who just has attack down, then you can Esuna the party. Much less time and MP spent.

Bottom Line: You're wasting MP if you're spamming status removal, on something that spams (ie, every 15 seconds or less). If it happens less frequently than that (and 95% of aoe statuses happen no more than a minute apart), then a SCH can already handle it. And as of this patch, Esuna will be more efficient at it.

So, why don't we see more Ragnaroks in this thread? It's a great weapon, ya?

you dont even know how Esuna will work. and not removeing status effects, even if they are being spammed, is realy not efficient... I play SCH as main, and man I wish I could have a yagrush, because even with 1 stratagems every min, i could need more... because status removeing is not the only thing I do with stratagems, its also tossing out AoEd Cure IVs etc.

[Izzy]

If it's spammed, it's not much use in removing, as it's reapplied.

This normally holds true if you have to erase 5 other people, but if the move goes off once, and you only have to remove it once, then there's no reason you should not be removing it.

If everyone followed your point of view, we should never remove paralyze from Jorm's wings or remove virus from Tiamat's wings etc. because they're constantly being reapplied.

[Ultimagi]

Lots of assumptions and speculation.

You don't know exactly how Esuna will work, don't pretend you do.

[Kenji]

This normally holds true if you have to erase 5 other people, but if the move goes off once, and you only have to remove it once, then there's no reason you should not be removing it.

If everyone followed your point of view, we should never remove paralyze from Jorm's wings or remove virus from Tiamat's wings etc. because they're constantly being reapplied.

It all depends on the rate it's applied. If it's re-applied every 5-10 seconds (as that's my definition of spam), then yes, it's almost pointless to remove. Your targets are still gonna spend the majority of the time with the status on them, so all you are doing is wasting mp. I suppose, if you bring an army to everything, you could dedicate a WHM to it.

Most things in the game don't spam statuses that quickly, though. In fact, most aoe status affects happen roughly a minute apart. At least, if you're lowing manning stuff like salvage and kings. Thus, you aren't feeding things a ton of TP anyway.

Unless your LS is one that has to bring an army to everything and causes kings to TP spam?

And *if* Esuna requires you to have the status, most status effects aren't inherenly that dangerous to a WHM, and thus you can stand in and get hit by them, then instantly remove them. Tribulation from a Flayer? Get hit, then remove Blind and Bio at the same time. The WHM with Yagrush takes *more* time to remove both statuses.

I'm not saying it's a craptastic weapon. It is a nice weapon. If it could be had for 10 mil, then great! But given the cost and what you have to go through with, it's not worth it. You give up too much else, unless you're super rich and/or a gilbuyer.

You don't know exactly how Esuna will work, don't pretend you do.

Neither do you. And if you read my posts carefully, you'll note I preface a lot of my assumptions with an *if* as I consider multiple possibilities. I suppose I should make that *IF* so you have an easier time seeing it. Anyway, all we know for certain at this time, is that Esuna is AoE status removal, and if you have Misery active, it removes multiple statuses.

[Marcicus]

- Dynamis with BST pet spell spam: Blindga, Breakga, Paralyga, Silencega.
- Cerberus: Ululation or unstunned Gates of Hades.
- Hydra: Nerve Gas, Barofield.
- Khimaira: Unstunned Fulmination.
- Tiamat: Tebbad Wing
- Ouryu: Bai Wing
- Soulflayers: Tribulation, Immortal Anathema
- Wyverns: Dread Shriek
- Tigers: Roar
- Puks: Obfsuscate (Erase can remove Flash)
- Ghrah: Actinic Burst
- Wivre: Demoralizing Roar
- Gurfurlur the Menacing: Pleiades Ray
- Gulool Ja Ja: Miasma
- Medusa: Gorgon Dance
- Trolls: Enervation
- Dvergr (admittedly small sample): Cackle, Necrobane, Necropurge, Bilgestorm
- Proto-Omega: Hyper Pulse, Target Analysis, Flood Light, Guided Missile (II)
- Spellcasters: Diaga, Poisonga

Do I need to go on?

Really? You'd think since I have SCH at 75 I'd know this, but I never really bothered with it since it wears off pretty quickly.

[Darkslitter]

You prefaced none of your assumptions about esuna with if. Rather you stated them as if they were fact. The only assumption you prefaced with if is the amount of tp moves/spells casted by a mob.

But back to the subject at hand, flayer's bio is something like 25 a tick. In einherjar that will get your melees spammed by it faster than a sch will be able to take it off (assuming you have a sch in the first place). With a yagrush, you would need 1 erase and maybe a curaga, but without you'd need to be spamming cures on people and it would take around 1min to 1 min and a half to get everyone's bio off. Someone will take 20 ticks of a 25a tick bio in that time amounting to a cure4. Just curing that one guy (not everyone in the party) and erasing everyone is way more mp than the amount of mp you'd spend with a yagrush.

Also consider ouryu, normally you need two people dedicated to erasing and stonaing the tanks quickly. Yagrush makes it 1 person needed instead of 2, (this also applies to paralyze for salvage bosses or anything that needs to be off of a person pretty much instantly)

If you can't understand that improving yourself two to six fold is fucking amazing on pretty much anything then I'm going to say you're a troll. Also the arguement of waaaaah it's expensive is pretty retarded because that's like saying well it's just 2 acc, it's not worth the money. or it's just 2 str it's not worth the money. Over time those little improvements make you a whole shit load better, and if you have the money you should go for it.

[Day]

Yet this is?

I thought it was pretty relevant to the current discussion.

[Ultimagi]

And if you read my posts carefully, you'll note I preface a lot of my assumptions with an *if* as I consider multiple possibilities. I suppose I should make that *IF* so you have an easier time seeing it.

Do you read your posts carefully?

[Xanthe]

Really? You'd think since I have SCH at 75 I'd know this, but I never really bothered with it since it wears off pretty quickly.

Yeah, was was surprised when I first found this out. Stun is erasable as well if I recall correctly, but it's been a while since I've tried that.

[Kenji]

But back to the subject at hand, flayer's bio is something like 25 a tick. In einherjar that will get your melees spammed by it faster than a sch will be able to take it off (assuming you have a sch in the first place). With a yagrush, you would need 1 erase and maybe a curaga, but without you'd need to be spamming cures on people and it would take around 1min to 1 min and a half to get everyone's bio off. Someone will take 20 ticks of a 25a tick bio in that time amounting to a cure4. Just curing that one guy (not everyone in the party) and erasing everyone is way more mp than the amount of mp you'd spend with a yagrush.

Forget all about the blind effect, too? I can understand, if you've never fought soulflayers before, so you might not realize that tribulation is actually two statuses. Wouldn't it be great, if SE gave WHMs a spell, that allowed you to remove both at the same time? Sure would save a lot of time, wouldn't it?

Also the arguement of waaaaah it's expensive is pretty retarded because that's like saying well it's just 2 acc, it's not worth the money. or it's just 2 str it's not worth the money. Over time those little improvements make you a whole shit load better, and if you have the money you should go for it.

So, why don't we see any Ragnaroks in this thread?

[Ultimagi]

Wouldn't it be great, if SE gave WHMs a spell, that allowed you to remove both at the same time? Sure would save a lot of time, wouldn't it?

Square-Enix never specified which status ailments Esuna will remove, and how the Misery stance will increase the number and variety.

So, why don't we see any Ragnaroks in this thread?

Because Apocalypse is better. Stop posting.

[Kenji]

Because Apocalypse is better.

Bingo. Why spend money on one thing, when your money is better spent elsewhere? Thank you.

[Ultimagi]

Bingo. Why spend money on one thing, when your money is better spent elsewhere? Thank you.

Except there's nothing better than Yagrush in the same slot for the same purpose, so you still fail.

[Antithesis]

but what are the odds you'll encounter that stuff on a regular basis unless you're an elitist asshole who does endgame for more than 26 hours a day, AND THATS NOT HOW I WANT TO SPEND MY 13.99 I'm much happier going rdm/drk to exp parties and spamming SE vorpal blade.

PS: Gratz Kirschy took you long enough! time to head to gusta and start testing =o Spoilered for size

Spoiler: show

sorry tekki couldn't resist =x

Pics, naow!

(This is some fucked up trolling.)

[Kenji]

Except there's nothing better than Yagrush in the same slot for the same purpose, so you still fail.

Except there are a couple of other options that are far cheaper. Like SCH and the new spells WHM are getting. And you're spending 90 mil for what is essentially a macro piece that really isn't needed except for perhaps 2% of your time ingame.

I said it before, and I'll say it again. What makes more sense? Spend 90 mil and a year? Or spend less than 1 mil and 2 months to do the same thing? And note that the latter option, also gives you the ability to do so much more than just aoe status removal. As a 75 SCH, I've never had problems getting aoe statuses removed in a timely fashion.

I can understand you really needing this, if you don't have SCH's, or your LS is just that bad at dealing with aoe statuses.

[Fredjan]

Hrmph, yesterday in Einherjar we got Ghosts then Flayers, and you best believe every WHM in the ls was wishing they had Yagrush. You just can't keep up with it otherwise. At least shit doesn't get more potent if you get hit with it multiple times.

This.

Einherjar is done more often than twice a month. For me, it's like 8~ times a month. (I do it twice a week)

Every time I do it, I sure do wish I had Yagrush, not SCH at 75. Why? Because I can do it better on WHM. On Odin for example, I'd rather have curagas than Accession Cures by a longshot, giving WHM the preference, AND, and the ability to remove statuses easier from people with Yagrush, again, making being WHM instead of SCH my preference. I rest my case. I am also usually the solo healer in my party and I never have any problems - and yagrush'd only help me more, not going SCH instead of WHM.

[Chen]

I said it before, and I'll say it again. What makes more sense? Spend 90 mil and a year? Or spend less than 1 mil and 2 months to do the same thing?

because.... if you come sch to erase the aoe debuffs.. then you can't come whm at the same time? pretty obvious.

[Ultimagi]

I'm 75 Scholar and White Mage. I'd rather spend my Strategems on something other than spamming status removals, not to mention you can't always keep up, sometimes they're more than once per minute. As White Mage, from what we know right now, there's already plenty of times when this would help remove status effects quicker. From what we don't know right now, we do know that you don't want to get hit with Silence, Paralyze, or Petrification in order to be able to remove those effects from other players, making Esuna worthless in those situations, if it would even be worth anything to begin with. And if something is being used too often for it to be worthwhile removing, guess what, its now worthwhile removing because you can do it as often as you fucking want.
I don't know who said it, but they need credit for it:
Fuck, shut it the up.