Brd question, skill vs chr etc.

[Silenka]

Bardlet outlined the skill needed in an earlier post.

Thanks, somehow I missed that post (overlooked it) orz

Does just wind skill or combined wind and singing skill make that +12 that reaches soft cap?
Cause wind + singing is easy to reach +12...

[Stromgarde]

k question

I have full wind merits pillowhat and other similar gear, putting me generally around 100 chr and... something or other skill. Assuming that I hit the 'reasonable' tier on things, for DEBUFFS ONLY, Minstrel's Coat or Errant Hop / Kirin's Osode?

[Skjie]

For debuffs, I'd believe Osode to be better.

[Bardlet]

Agreed, Osode prolly better than the other 2 options.

I'll test if you let me your join your znm ls!

I wish I had a ZNM ls. ;-; Not enough hours in the day/days in the week. I need those ugly feets too. x_x

My max skill right now is Singing 248/Wind 253, for a combined total of... 501. Only have 3 Singing merits and 1 Wind though, and missing Oracle's Pigaches and Astute Cape. And that crazy horn.

[FailureMidgard]

Agreed, Osode prolly better than the other 2 options.

You're kidding right? Or are you seriously calling Osode "better than" Errant?

But yea, a charisma piece is likely better. Sell the Osode and get a Mahatma! (Osode is crazy overrated and used by all sorts of people that shouldn't be using it anyway!)

[Thorny]

(Osode is crazy overrated and used by all sorts of people that shouldn't be using it anyway!)

qft

[Eldelphia]

I've just given my osode to a RNG who joined our shell a few months back, until the next one drops. I use AF+1 body right now and whilst I loved having an osode, honestly, it can wait. I prefer AF+1 over errant because it doesn't have the negatives.

[Bardlet]

You're kidding right? Or are you seriously calling Osode "better than" Errant?

But yea, a charisma piece is likely better. Sell the Osode and get a Mahatma! (Osode is crazy overrated and used by all sorts of people that shouldn't be using it anyway!)

Personally, I never owned, wanted to own, or ever will own an Osode. The reason I said Osode was because amongst the 3 pieces there and knowing nothing else about gear or anything else, I'd pick Osode over Errant, as I really do not care for the minus stats- but that's my opinion and how I've always felt.

I didn't use Errant either- up until I got my Jubbah, my CHR piece of choice was AF+1 Body. 10 CHR, 10 VIT, +HP and -enmity. Honestly, in my opinion, its superior to Osode in every way- but it wasn't one of the choices that were asked about. Hence, what I posted.

That aside- I found the post I had referenced on an earlier page on lolAlla. However, the tests were done back in February of 2006, so who knows how accurate they are compared to what we know today.

[Allakhazam.com: Singing Skill Test Results]

A brief summary:

Here's the short of it. Using nothing except for +singing skill, I was able to significantly reduce Lullaby resist rates against a target mob. I realize this goes against the vast majority of common thinking on the subject, please read on for details.

Through my own observations in both leveling and in HNM fights, I've always been pleased with the results I've gotten when adding a few pieces of +singing skill equipment into my build. It's taken me almost a year to finally do some unbiased testing, and even I was shocked at the results.

Question answered: Singing skill *DOES* improve the chances of landing a debuff, such as lullaby.

Questions unanswered: If +singing skill is equal, more effective, or less effective than +wind skill. If +singing skill has a direct relation to CHR and its effectiveness. If there is a breakpoint at a set skill level where this effectiveness kicks in, or if it is roughly linear. More tests will need to be done, but It was coming up on lights & darksday, so I called it a night.

Target Mob: Aura Butler, Shine of Ru'Avutar. Test was done over the course of 4 non-light, non-dark days. 100 casts of Lullaby and the resist rate was observed.

Jamison: Level 75 Bard, +7 wind merits, +1 singing merit that could not be removed for this test. My base stats for both tests were CHR 77 (70base, +7 used in both tests. This let me use AF1+1 hands for the 2nd part of the test without skewing the results). Wind skill for both tests was 239 (no +wind equipment, only merits). Singing skill was 227 for the first test, 250 for the 2nd.

I did not use any staves, nor the chanters staff. All my stats were kept as low as was possible, and again I used +7 CHR in both tests. +skill equipment used was Demon Helm, Astute Cape, AF1+1 hands and Singing earring. Mary's Horn was the instrument of choice. I was naked in all other slots.

I think I managed to make sure that THE ONLY VARIABLE tested was singing skill. I avoided Chanter's Staff in the unlikelyhood it had a hidden effect. Likewise an elemental staff was not used to keep it from skewing the results in any way.

I'm sorry for keeping you waiting, here are the details.

TEST #1: Singing skill 227 (Wind 239, CHR 77)
- Full Resist: 19
- Partial Resist: 27
- No Resist: 54

TEST #2: Singing skill 250 (Wind 239, CHR 77)
- Full Resist: 2
- Partial Resist: 10
- No Resist: 88

[Crizto]

Osode looks better than both Errant and AF+1, so that's why I want it. No I will not .DAT swap my gear , but I'm stuck using Errant atm anyways.

[Bardlet]

Osode looks better than both Errant and AF+1, so that's why I want it. No I will not .DAT swap my gear , but I'm stuck using Errant atm anyways.

D: I've always felt that Osode is one of the ugliest looking body pieces out there. D:

[Crizto]

D: I've always felt that Osode is one of the ugliest looking body pieces out there. D:

I think it looks better than Errant, though things like Manteel/Marduk/Yigit look better. Shame I can't full time Yigit on my BRD

[Bakthi]

Does just wind skill or combined wind and singing skill make that +12 that reaches soft cap? Cause wind + singing is easy to reach +12...

It's wind and singing combined, and yes, if you're not hitting the cap for Minuet IV something is very wrong.

Osode is better than AF+1 for Stoneskin, and I guess if you want...a light resist build? but that's about it. Some or all of the MP on the Osode basically doesn't count, since hopefully you're starting buffs in either Yigit or Sha'ir body.

I signed up for Osode years ago, and I got one at some point last year. A short time later, I finished raising the gil for Marduk body, and returned the Osode to the shell. Now I find myself vaguely wanting it again to macro in on WAR/DNC for Curing Waltz...it seems such a trivial reason, but not much more so than most non-RNG Osode uses these days. For a BRD, Errant is certainly sufficient and in many cases better.

I like the look of the sky god set (4/5 on it now that I returned the Osode), certainly better than BRD AF. Osode does look pretty dumb with AF+1 hands though.

[Stromgarde]

Osode for multiple job people, my errant stays on a mule, heh. plus i like the extra mp. )

My situation. I'm not going to drop a ton of money on a job I rarely use for marginal improvement (i.e. AF+1 body, hands would be worth the investment), but I do want to be using the most effective combination of what I have.

[FailureMidgard]

The whole point is most of these "multi-job" people are using it when it is inferior. It's good for ranger and sam/rng, and perhaps as some sort of defensive piece for a couple jobs. It isn't a good item, and if you can get some good gil for it, you probably should. Then you can go buy a Mahatma body and use it as the best resting piece (well, tied with Oracle now) for all of your mage jobs. It's a good nuking piece for rdm and sch. It's a good stoneskin piece for bard and blm. Even without that, the -enmity on Errant beats out anything Osode has to offer. And +mp shouldn't matter, cause I hope to god you aren't full-timing Osode.

[Tamashii]

i'm not sure if anyone's mentioned this yet but...

if you absolutely need to land a debuff on a monster, get 2--3 bards

subjob black mage, and elemental seal-troubador a debuff which lasts around four minutes.

like elegy

[Kaiyoko]

Got the sha'ir feet and Oracle's Pigaches dropped last night. Would it be a good idea to keep them both?

[Stromgarde]

I'd get rid of the Pigaches, personally.

[FailureMidgard]

I'd get rid of the Pigaches, personally.

Fully disagree.

I'd keep the Pigaches for sure, they are good for marches and such at the very least. As for their use offensively, I don't think anyone knows for sure which is going to be better, but the Pigaches is a better cha to skill tradeoff than the sea cape. Furthermore, you get gil back for the Sha'ir, which are a very minor upgrade, if they are an upgrade at all. Finally, Pigaches are alone for +skill boots, whereas eventually you'll want Goliard clogs over Sha'ir, if you indeed think 4 charisma is worth using.

[Stromgarde]

Got wires crossed, I knew I should have typed out the full name. Keep Oracle's Pigaches, get rid of Sha'ir Crackows.

This foot tastes terrible, btw.

[Dawin]

[Allakhazam.com: Singing Skill Test Results]

A brief summary:

Well we already knew this. This doesn't disprove that wind is better than singing skill at all.

I'm pretty lazy, but maybe I'll get around to testing this myself. It shouldn't take too long to test it out starting w/ a naked 75 bard against Hpemdes. Hopefully my stats are low enough taht I can still get a ton of resists naked. Do they build resist to lullaby/elegy/threnody at all?