SAM tanking (Damage taken)

[rithridan]

What are reasonable values for damage taken per hit on SAM? I've been taking SAM to Salvage on occasion (when other tanks aren't there) and it feels like I'm taking much more damage then I should be. For example last Bhaflau Remnants we were fighting a 9/10 nerfed LBC and every time I got hit it was for around as 'low' as 180 and as high as 280 non crit averaging around 230 and TP moves did around 300-400 each.

From the few times I've had the chance to play SAM tank in Salvage I noticed 3rd eye being a bitch more often then not right on the times you can't use it. So 3x 1-hit 3rd eye in a row w/ Seigan up was happening more often then not. Hence I put a lot of importance on getting hit for the least amount as possible (for me).

My physical defense gear is as follows:

Hagun               / Pole Strap     / -                / Smart Grenade
Arhat's Jinpichi +1 / Justice Torque / Brutal Earring   / Ethereal Earring
Arhat's Gi +1       / Seiryu's Kote  / Rajas Ring       / Jelly Ring
Boxer's Mantle      / Swift Belt     / Byakko's Haidate / Usukane Sune-ate

My DEF unbuffed is 291 and it was ~418 using a Taco (since I didn't have Rabbit Pie on me) and getting Protect4/Shell4 (no Phalanx2/Defender). I was expecting to take around 150-200 non crit averaging 180, that would've been a lot more managable with the unreliability we know as Seigan+ThirdEye.

For completeness sake here is my magical defense gear (- denotes unchanged, so I don't blink after every TP move):

-               / -              / -              / -
-               / Justice Torque / Brutal Earring / Ethereal Earring
-               / -              / Merman's Ring  / Merman's Ring
Lamia Mantle +1 / Swift Belt     / -              / -

Can definately make more improvements there (2x Merman's Earring, Lieutenants Sash) but I wasn't too surprised about my damage taken from TP moves.

[FailureMidgard]

Reasonable is going to vary from group to group, honestly. In the end, you make offensive sacrifices to improve your defensive capabilities. I wouldn't go based on what others tell you, but rather what you and your mages think is manageable and what isn't. Clearly using defender full time would lower the damage you take, as would equipping more pieces with defense/vitality/damage down (Askar Boots, Warwolf Belt, Myochin Haidate+1 isn't bad either with both vit and parrying). The question becomes if your group is more worried about a more extended battle (and how much time you had when you arrived at the chariot) or more worried about the rate of damage intake. Anyway, some groups go with 1 mage and a bard. Some go with 2, and some take 3.

In my opinion, you should just mess around with it a bit yourself, talk to your mages, and watch their mp. If you get to the chariot with more time left than you anticipated, then stack on more defense shit and try it out. If you get there and you're short on time, you may need to put more pressure on your mages so that you kill the chariot in time. See what you like and what works for your group.

[Diametric]

My Salvage group uses a tanking setup of a SAM/WAR and a MNK/NIN for everything, including chariots. The SAM has a damage reduction set very similar to yours that he pops on when his third eye goes down (the rest of the time he uses his standard DD set). I asked him about it and he said your gear looked fine, although you might want to look into Gavial legs/feet or askar feet. Regarding damage taken, 180-280 seems about right to me for the chariots - one thing you might consider if you only have one mage and MP is an issue is using Bio2 rather than Dia.

[Callisto]

Just curious what you guys thought, if IR Lance would be viable in this situation? I'm sure it'd gimp a fair amount of damage but still could be some decent output on top of the damage reduction.

[FailureMidgard]

Just curious what you guys thought, if IR Lance would be viable in this situation? I'm sure it'd gimp a fair amount of damage but still could be some decent output on top of the damage reduction.

You'd need to be using sushi, and would likely still be missing chariots far too much. Would be a pretty large damage loss, imo.

I think you'd do more damage switching every other piece of gear to a def/vit/parry/eva/agi piece and just switching to WS.

[Oulanbator]

My DEF unbuffed is 291 and it was ~418 using a Taco (since I didn't have Rabbit Pie on me) and getting Protect4/Shell4 (no Phalanx2/Defender). I was expecting to take around 150-200 non crit averaging 180, that would've been a lot more managable with the unreliability we know as Seigan+ThirdEye.

Well basically your food isn't that useful.
291-350 base defense isn't enough to really benefit from tacos, since you need a defense of 600 to get +150 def.
With a base defense of 350, the tacos will only give you +87 def, so you might want to move to fishkabobs because you will get exactly the same result for cheaper.

Pescatora would give you a bit less def bout you would reach the +65 def cap and get a bonus of 150 Hp ( giving you and your mages a larger margin for mistakes) and 6 Store Tp ( that never hurts).

You could also consider using rice balls. With the appropriate gear ( AF+1 hands and Nobushi Kyahan), you would be able to get +100 def or +80 def and atk. More def than your tacos, and also interesting bonus effects.
The roshi Jinpachi might not be that great since it would take the slot of the arhat's jinpachi, though you might want to consider it.

I don't know if caps and requirements to reach said cap on Rabbit pies have been found yet.
If these caps are like the taco ones, chances are you won't get such a huge defense bonus. If the caps are more like the Kabobs or Pescatora ones, you might really benefit from it. You need to test to figure it out.


Also, some of your gear choices aren't really logical.
In a real defense setup, you don't want to equip items with low def or without defense like the torque, the earrings, the rings, the boxer's mantle, the swift belt etc etc... You can swap all these for Def/Vit/Hp gear when you are taking a beating, and the good thing is you can even swap these at will without blinking because these aren't visible gear. I think with a few different gear choices, you can easily gain + 50/60 def.

Another way to consider defense might be parrying if you have it capped and/or merited. A full parrying setup might give some interesting results. The boxer's mantle in itself is useless if you don't add other + parrying gear.

[Wolfknight]

Well basically your food isn't that useful.
291-350 base defense isn't enough to really benefit from tacos, since you need a defense of 600 to get +150 def.
With a base defense of 350, the tacos will only give you +87 def, so you might want to move to fishkabobs because you will get exactly the same result for cheaper.

Pescatora would give you a bit less def bout you would reach the +65 def cap and get a bonus of 150 Hp ( giving you and your mages a larger margin for mistakes) and 6 Store Tp ( that never hurts).

You could also consider using rice balls. With the appropriate gear ( AF+1 hands and Nobushi Kyahan), you would be able to get +100 def or +80 def and atk. More def than your tacos, and also interesting bonus effects.
The roshi Jinpachi might not be that great since it would take the slot of the arhat's jinpachi, though you might want to consider it.

I don't know if caps and requirements to reach said cap on Rabbit pies have been found yet.
If these caps are like the taco ones, chances are you won't get such a huge defense bonus. If the caps are more like the Kabobs or Pescatora ones, you might really benefit from it. You need to test to figure it out.


Also, some of your gear choices aren't really logical.
In a real defense setup, you don't want to equip items with low def or without defense like the torque, the earrings, the rings, the boxer's mantle, the swift belt etc etc... You can swap all these for Def/Vit/Hp gear when you are taking a beating, and the good thing is you can even swap these at will without blinking because these aren't visible gear. I think with a few different gear choices, you can easily gain + 50/60 def.

Another way to consider defense might be parrying if you have it capped and/or merited. A full parrying setup might give some interesting results. The boxer's mantle in itself is useless if you don't add other + parrying gear.

rabbit pies take 400 to reach cap for attack and defense it's +25% to both of them, I am pretty was what ruke had in his LJ when he tested them while back.