Sarah Palin, Republican Vice Presidential Candidate

[Olo401]

Now that you bring her up I remember someone talking about her as a choice. So I guess there was someone at least as qualified. Maybe it just came down to looks I dunno.

I thought Rell might have been considered. She's a lot more moderate than Palin and McCain combined tho, and given the ideological reasoning behind McCain's pick (to rally the base) it would've been a bad choice.

[Elvis]

Buckley was a bit of an nationalist/imperialist, but at least he was cordial/personable.

Yea. I really liked how Buckley and Chomsky could sit next to each other and debate without a moderator. It was a great conversation. All of which is relevant today.

Not only that but even though he interrupts Chomsky sometimes (everyone does), he was very sophisticated in his approach to the exchange. You don't see stuff like that today.

[Beckwin]

sophistication is too elitist for modern conservatives.

[Elvis]

needs more folksy

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

I never understood this whole "the government doesn't have a right to tell me what to do with my money" but "the government has a right to tell you what to do with your body".

Is there a reason why some Americans are so insistent on applying a wide range of definitions to conservatism, even when it sounds like liberalism? Or does this go back to conservatism not having a very solid definition and some Americans just having an apprehension of saying the word liberal?

I want to take a stab at this, but I can't decide if I want to.

[Churchill]

sophistication is too elitist for modern conservatives.

That's why people like Paul, who wouldn't be an asshole during debates didn't fair well...even though while watching you knew he won, his soundbites were too long or logical to make it to msnbc, fox, or cnn lol.

[Quicklet]

Someone who doesn't appoint Alaskan politicians to "study" global warming, because, hello! It has been studied.

Ehh late in noticing this but I'm somewhat annoyed nowadays when people think that just because correlations relating to global warming are generally accepted means that there is no further studying or research of the problem required. Also keep in mind that any changes due to global warming are going to affect different regions in different ways, so it's certainly appropriate for a state official to study the issue in the context of how it might affect the local region, industry, etc.

[Churchill]

I never understood this whole "the government doesn't have a right to tell me what to do with my money" but "the government has a right to tell you what to do with your body".

Is there a reason why some Americans are so insistent on applying a wide range of definitions to conservatism, even when it sounds like liberalism? Or does this go back to conservatism not having a very solid definition and some Americans just having an apprehension of saying the word liberal?

Americans only place such a wide range of definitions on conservatism because they associate it with the Republican party only. If you do that, then Conservatism means Imperialism, Government Spending, Pro-Life, Pro-Guns, etc.

It was already said, but I better model is someone like Paul, Goldwater, etc who may have been in favor of Pro-Life but wasn't going to crusade against Pro-Choice laws. Restrictive government spending, more power to states to determine their social values, a non-entangling foreign policy etc.

It falls on the voter to determine what they're integrity means, and for the most part it's a letter next to a name. People think Obama is a Muslim and that Paul (the ones who know of him, lol) wants to get rid of the income tax and change to gold on day one. Neither of these statements are true.

[Beckwin]

That's why people like Paul, who wouldn't be an asshole during debates didn't fair well...even though while watching you knew he won, his soundbites were too long or logical to make it to msnbc, fox, or cnn lol.

True. I disagree strongly with a lot of Paul's stances and agree with a few, but I will say that without a doubt the conservative movement needs him, or others like him, if this country is ever going to improve politically and intellectually.

GOP hacks like Giuliani would drag Paul through the mud for daring to be critical of American policy, labeling him unpatriotic or disrespectful- that's right, the guy who literally can't shut the fuck up about "upholding the constitution" is called unpatriotic/america hating. And people buy it. A similar treatment for Obama for having a similar stance. And people buy it. Obama is probably one of the most intelligent, educated, and brilliant politicians we've seen in a long time, yet somehow those qualities can be negatively spun, and... people buy it.

[Muffins]

True. I disagree strongly with a lot of Paul's stances and agree with a few, but I will say that without a doubt the conservative movement needs him, or others like him, if this country is ever going to improve politically and intellectually.

GOP hacks like Giuliani would drag Paul through the mud for daring to be critical of American policy, labeling him unpatriotic or disrespectful- that's right, the guy who literally can't shut the fuck up about "upholding the constitution" is called unpatriotic/america hating. And people buy it. A similar treatment for Obama for having a similar stance. And people buy it. Obama is probably one of the most intelligent, educated, and brilliant politicians we've seen in a long time, yet somehow those qualities can be negatively spun, and... people buy it.

Blame the culture of anti-intellectualism in America's political discourse. I think it's been said already, but it's how being college educated makes you an elitist, and that's a dirty word.

[geno]

This talk of an anti-intellectual movement reminded me of this quote I remember seeing thrown around a lot in 2004.

"The larger the mob, the harder the test. In small areas, before small electorates, a first-rate man occasionally fights his way through, carrying even the mob with him by force of his personality. But when the field is nationwide, and the fight must be waged chiefly at second and third hand, and the force of personality cannot so readily make itself felt, then all the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most easily adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum.

"The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." (Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920)

edit: Forgot to mention, I think this quote would be so much more applicable if we could combine this and the last election. Bush/Cheney seemed like such a perfect example of "the most devious and medicore" and Obama's devoted following exemplifies the power of a "force of personality." Of course this isn't a small electorate race, so that power has become substantially weaker and weaker, especially when compared to the power of the "devious and mediocre" ads we've seem coming out of the McCain campaign as of late. But hey, there has actually been a couple stories on FactCheck.org about recent Obama ads being misleading in the midst of the flood of McCain/Palin stories, so maybe theres still hope for this entire campaign to fall into mediocrity and deviousness and become one of the closest contests in history!

[Beckwin]

US Federal Oil officials: more than oil is being drilled.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26660825/

Anyone got an idea how to get a job with MMS? Sounds like they know how to party.

[Zosi]

US Federal Oil officials: more than oil is being drilled.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26660825/

Anyone got an idea how to get a job with MMS? Sounds like they know how to party.

The really disgusting thing about that is that they'll be fired and barred from government jobs, and that'll be it. Where's the fucking jail time that they deserve?

[Elvis]

This talk of an anti-intellectual movement reminded me of this quote I remember seeing thrown around a lot in 2004.

"The larger the mob, the harder the test. In small areas, before small electorates, a first-rate man occasionally fights his way through, carrying even the mob with him by force of his personality. But when the field is nationwide, and the fight must be waged chiefly at second and third hand, and the force of personality cannot so readily make itself felt, then all the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most easily adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum.

"The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." (Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920)

edit: Forgot to mention, I think this quote would be so much more applicable if we could combine this and the last election. Bush/Cheney seemed like such a perfect example of "the most devious and medicore" and Obama's devoted following exemplifies the power of a "force of personality." Of course this isn't a small electorate race, so that power has become substantially weaker and weaker, especially when compared to the power of the "devious and mediocre" ads we've seem coming out of the McCain campaign as of late. But hey, there has actually been a couple stories on FactCheck.org about recent Obama ads being misleading in the midst of the flood of McCain/Palin stories, so maybe theres still hope for this entire campaign to fall into mediocrity and deviousness and become one of the closest contests in history!

Great quote. What you wrote (in bold) is very true and insightful into the psychology of the process.

Mencken was great. He's definitely someone who'd truly fit the definition of "elitist" though. People today would call him a racist (and they'd be wrong) but he gave everyone shit equally.

[ZarakiKujata]

So I guess there was someone at least as qualified. Maybe it just came down to looks I dunno.

Rell is a lot more qualified, she clearly has more/longer executive experience then Palin, and also more experience as a legislator. It came down to the fact that Palin is pro-life b/c none of the other clearly more experienced/vetted women mentioned here are and b/c her scandals will distract voters from the issues until November in ways that any skeletons on those other women have couldn't.

I think it speaks volumes about how McCain intends to govern when he jumps over 2 legitimate GOP female governors(Whitman and Rell) who have stood up to their own party, to special interests and are more experienced and instead goes for such a purely political and cynical pick.

[Muffins]

US Federal Oil officials: more than oil is being drilled.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26660825/

Anyone got an idea how to get a job with MMS? Sounds like they know how to party.

It really points into perspective the chants of "Drill, Baby, Drill!"

[Demosthenes11]

why does it surprise you guys that McCain would choose somebody who has the same values he and the republican party have? You all asking he choose these other people...who don't think the same. It's not like they are supposed to bipartisanly choose here...

[Rhinox]

why does it surprise you guys that McCain would choose somebody who has the same values he and the republican party have? You all asking he choose these other people...who don't think the same. It's not like they are supposed to bipartisanly choose here...

What the fuck? They don't have the same values. She believes in outlawing Abortion even in cases of rape and incest and he does not. He believes in eliminating Earmarks and she asked for them as governor of Alaska. 200mil this year alone to be exact. shes against Stem cell research and he is for it. how exactly do they have the same values? they believe in the same god...?

[Demosthenes11]

What the fuck? They don't have the same values. She believes in outlawing Abortion even in cases of rape and incest and he does not. He believes in eliminating Earmarks and she asked for them as governor of Alaska. 200mil this year alone to be exact. shes against Stem cell research and he is for it. how exactly do they have the same values? they believe in the same god...?

mcCain is pro-life
Nobody is FOR earmarks. She is against them and because of that, she is a hypocrite. They both have flip flopped so many times on shit doesn't really matter at this point. She was picked to appeal to a certain crowd. Asking McCain to pick a more liberal VP is dumb

[Rhinox]

mcCain is pro-life
Nobody is FOR earmarks. She is against them and because of that, she is a hypocrite. They both have flip flopped so many times on shit doesn't really matter at this point. She was picked to appeal to a certain crowd. Asking McCain to pick a more liberal VP is dumb

I agree that she was picked not to appeal but to appease. which makes McCain's candidacy an even bigger joke then what it already was. He doesn't stand on principle (at least not anymore) he stands on what gets him in the white house. He is so full of shit and that fact that people are either to stupid or too fucking ignorant to realize whats going on really pisses me off. Its really scary at the direction this country has gone the last 8 years and even scarier how far this fraud of a person has gotten.