Sarah Palin, Republican Vice Presidential Candidate

[Elvis]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTmXHvGZiSY

[zoobernut]

I think it was a good move if that's what you mean by "fell" for it. I'll give you that.
I also think choosing Palin was a brilliant move. It took both McCain and Obama out from under the microscope for two weeks. Whether it works or not has yet to be seen.
Republicans are smarter than the Democrats and it's fun to watch the chess moves they make.

This is a matter of opinion. Another opinion is that the Republicans are just catering to a stupider audience which makes them appear smarter by contrast.

[aurik]

I think it was a good move if that's what you mean by "fell" for it. I'll give you that.
I also think choosing Palin was a brilliant move. It took both McCain and Obama out from under the microscope for two weeks. Whether it works or not has yet to be seen.
Republicans are smarter than the Democrats and it's fun to watch the chess moves they make.

Choosing Palin was a brilliant political choice. Much like today's political ploy, which is clever but, much like most of McCain's campaign tactics, is transparent and lacks substance.

It's too bad that the Republicans want to play games with the country's future. But games are for children, and that's exactly who we should be thinking of in turbulent times like these: what kind of nation are we building for our children and our children's children?

[Soa]

I also think choosing Palin was a brilliant move. It took both McCain and Obama out from under the microscope for two weeks. Whether it works or not has yet to be seen.

It hasn't worked since the temporary boost they got from it, and from the RNC, has already vanished. This is the time of year Bush started pulling ahead the last two elections, and this election McCain is starting to fall behind. Obama is ahead now in almost every battleground state, and short of another last second boost like the first one (highly unlikely) this election is all but over.

[geno]

that's odd. All of this information I'm saying comes straight out of a book authored by a liberal progressive that started a think tank.

It is NOBODY'S fault that our brains do the things you do. It's a PHYSICAL CHANGE which happens and it's IMPOSSIBLE to stop it - liberal, conservative, whatever

Few pages late but it needs to be said, because it is scientific FACT

I responded to you a couple pages back when you first brought the book up, but I think the conventional wisdom about campaign effectiveness is entirely different in this election. I agree with you 100% about republicans better use of words, euphamisms, and all kinds of mind tricks all the way up until this election. Kerry in particular was beaten by this tactic in such amazing fashion. But this election has been a bit different. McCain just isn't as good at following his advisers advice as Bush was (and I imagine still is). Although he has spun Maverick into such a strong word for his campaign, I would bet money the people behind his campaign wish he were a run of the mill republican more than anything in the world, because they know they can make one of those guys win.

Although Obama has had all his plans laid out on his website forever now, his election strategy and speeches have been rhetoric and pretty words, and they worked fantastically. Kerry couldn't give speeches like that, and he couldn't spin things the way Obama can. I'm not saying any of this in a derogatory way either, because I think its a neccessity in today's election environment. Don't get me wrong, McCain hasn't been horribly worse than Obama the entire time. In fact, from his announcement of Palin up to the current financial crisis, McCain was doing it better. But you have to realize that wasn't actually that long of a period in the election cycle and that period has been over since last week. He was only able to be as successful as he was during this period because he was able to keep media attention off of him.

But then the pig/lipstick event got such negative press reaction, that it turned media attention on just in time to see his reaction to the financial situation, which resulted in the biggest breakdown in his campaign strategy to date. The highlight of course was his recent overuse of the phrase, "the fundamentals of our economy are strong." I have no doubt in my mind, the phrase was poll tested as an effective phrase but not in the current financial climate. And then his campaign advisers and spokespeople started slipping up all over the place and the message fell apart.

This is the first election in a long time where the DEMOCRAT has been better at keeping his message free of bogged-down specifics and kept the election on unspecific and blurry ideas like judgment and change. If McCain doesn't have a rally by way of some big political stunt its likely to stay that way too. McCain is trying to fix his image with his announcement today, but it was incredibly risky as its success is reliant on either Obama or the people who run the debates accepting or agreeing. Otherwise, hes forced into another "this would be a different election if he just accepted my invitation to town hall meetings" situation on a bigger scale that just hasn't and won't work.

[Elvis]

Republicans just have a better ad campaign. It's not about the issues. It's about how you sell yourself. How the hell did people buy that George Bush was an everday 'fella'? His family is American aristocracy. It's the same with this 'Obama is an elitist' crap.

[Kwijiboe]

Republicans just have a better ad campaign. It's not about the issues. It's about how you sell yourself. How the hell did people buy that George Bush was an everday 'fella'? His family is American aristocracy. It's the same with this 'Obama is an elitist' crap.

It was the debates. In the case with Bush v. Gore in '00: Bush looked like a 'fun guy' cracking jokes, while Gore looked like a stiff.

[Alleya]

I feel bad quoting comedy central in a political thread but...

"Who the hell really wants a president they can have a beer with. Are you watching this in a bar right now? Look around. See any presidents there?"

[archibaldcrane]

There's was a 5 year period of my life in vietnam, where i didn't have access to permanent marker.

I almost spit out a bite of my subway sandwich.

Fucking lol.

[Elvis]

i imagine that was a great pickup line

There's was a 5 year period of my life in vietnam, where i couldn't stop lovin you.

smooch smooch

[Muffins]

Republicans just have a better ad campaign. It's not about the issues. It's about how you sell yourself. How the hell did people buy that George Bush was an everday 'fella'? His family is American aristocracy. It's the same with this 'Obama is an elitist' crap.

I'm reminded of Rick Davis saying that this campaign and this election will be personality-based and will ignore the issues. A referendum on one's character, if you will. It's that type of politics where Republicans have succeeded since Reagan.

It's also tied into the book referenced by Demos' link. Yeah, Democrats decry the use of such strategies, but in a face-off between high-minded ideals and an emotional gut check, emotions tend to win out. Many Democrats just haven't grasped that yet, or that they grasp it but don't want to "go the low road" by employing such strategies often, sadly, to their detriment.

[Senoska]

There's was a 5 year period of my life in vietnam, where i didn't have access to permanent marker.

Oh damn, wins this thread by a long shot.

[Correction]

I feel bad quoting comedy central in a political thread but...

"Who the hell really wants a president they can have a beer with. Are you watching this in a bar right now? Look around. See any presidents there?"

I don't like linking drudge, either, but I thought this was a funny joke.

http://drudgereport.com/flash3cbm.htm

Remember, drudge. Grain of salt time.

[Demosthenes11]

I'm reminded of Rick Davis saying that this campaign and this election will be personality-based and will ignore the issues. A referendum on one's character, if you will. It's that type of politics where Republicans have succeeded since Reagan.

It's also tied into the book referenced by Demos' link. Yeah, Democrats decry the use of such strategies, but in a face-off between high-minded ideals and an emotional gut check, emotions tend to win out. Many Democrats just haven't grasped that yet, or that they grasp it but don't want to "go the low road" by employing such strategies often, sadly, to their detriment.

it all stems from the past view of logic. People used to believe (descartes in particular) that logic was completely independent of all emotion, which is now proven to be the complete opposite. It is IMPOSSIBLE to use reason and logic if you do not know what you desire (you always desire a feeling). That's only the tip of the iceberg, but everything descartes laid out has now been proven false. This is ironic, because democratic strategists still view the world in that fashion, while republicans strategists have taken the more modern approach (can't think of 21st century politics with a 17th century brain).

The fact is, there are no election based on issues - it's ALWAYS a battle about character. There's a reason why people win debates while losing on the issues in the debate.

geno: I agree with you to some extent. Obama is a much better speaker and user of words than past candidates. However, democratic strategists have not employed the right words, frames, and metaphors like the republicans. Change and hope are neutral words - they have no direct party affiliation through neurons.

[Senoska]

I don't like linking drudge, either, but I thought this was a funny joke.

http://drudgereport.com/flash3cbm.htm

Remember, drudge. Grain of salt time.

See, this is what obama needed to do. Call him on his shit.
Stuff like:

"What are you going to do if you're elected and things get tough? Suspend being president? We've got a guy like that now!"

Wins the race.

[Demosthenes11]

because campaigning is like being president?
I'd consider going to washington and trying to fix things is more of a presidential duty than campaigning - regardless if that was the reason or not.

Your metaphor fails

[geno]

because campaigning is like being president?
I'd consider going to washington and trying to fix things is more of a presidential duty than campaigning - regardless if that was the reason or not.

Your metaphor fails

Doesn't really matter how accurate it is. I think if Obama used it, it would probably stick. If Obama stole that line to respond to McCain playing his 'country first, campaign second' card during a debate or something, it would work. It reminds me very much of the Daily Show's formula. Say something that affects public opinion, but is clearly a joke immune to fact checking. Its actually normally a quintessential republican strategy (edit: when used in a campaign at least. Obviously the Daily Show is king of its use in popular culture.)

[Demosthenes11]

Doesn't really matter how accurate it is. I think if Obama used it, it would probably stick. If Obama stole that line to respond to McCain playing his 'country first, campaign second' card during a debate or something, it would work. It reminds me very much of the Daily Show's formula. Say something that affects public opinion, but is clearly a joke immune to fact checking. Its actually normally a quintessential republican strategy (edit: when used in a campaign at least. Obviously the Daily Show is king of its use in popular culture.)

it's true, but I was just making sure others know it isn't the best uh...metaphor in the world lol

[Senoska]

because campaigning is like being president?
I'd consider going to washington and trying to fix things is more of a presidential duty than campaigning - regardless if that was the reason or not.

Your metaphor fails

Normally, no, campaigning is not like being president, however, specifically John McCain is trying to paint it like he is already president. Meeting with foreign dignitaries, dispatching ambassadors to countries in conflict, etc.

This is when his strategy comes back and bites him in the ass, hard. I think if obama pulled out his guns with things like the given line, he will absolutely win.

[geno]

it's true, but I was just making sure others know it isn't the best uh...metaphor in the world lol

On that point, its still not as bad as you make it out to be. People do often think it seems more presidential when a president can actually explain the problems the U.S. is facing in the most simple way and present solutions than to actually go and do the legwork. They want Congress to do that so they can bitch at them for the terrible solutions they do finally pass.

edit: This of course all hinges on the idea that 'suspending the campaign' includes suspending the debate (which is the candidates best medium for presenting a message to the largest U.S. audience they can gather). Just doing campaign speeches and rallies is in fact, not presidential by any means.