Sarah Palin, Republican Vice Presidential Candidate

[Dimmauk]

It will be interesting to see Palin defend McCain from Biden. So far McCain has been protecting her, and the "Gotcha Media" interview was the best example of that.

McCain has been all over the place these past weeks, and look very unstable. I really dont think he can stand the pressure and stress of being President. Just look at the Before and After pictures of the previous Presidents. Look at Bush now, he physically looks like absolute crap right now.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Can we stop linking Thinkprogress.org and dailykos.com and websites like that? It just makes me groan, not as much as the ones swampdonkey links to, but it's still pretty bad. Try to find a more reputable source to link to. Usually, they link to sources in those articles anyways. Just use that source.

[Elvis]

Whats the big deal with those sites? You said it yourself that they have sources right? If they inject their agenda, so be it. Everyone does it. It's not like the MSM is any better. They're just more experienced.

Anyways, sup Martial Law!

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=jYxTzD...eature=related

[Aerin]

While we're on the subject of dictators...

McCain Aspires to be a Dictator

I believe that as much as I believe Obama is a Muslim in disguise.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Whats the big deal with those sites? You said it yourself that they have sources right? If they inject their agenda, so be it. Everyone does it. It's not like the MSM is any better. They're just more experienced.

Anyways, sup Martial Law!

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=jYxTzD...eature=related

They don't always have sources and constantly using them REALLY makes you sound like a liberal windbag instead of a well reasoned person supporting a liberal. Following those blogs and using them as your sources just digs yourself into a hardcore partisan hole.

I mean, that McCain being a dictator shit is ludicrous and posted as actual news. One time Obama accidentally said he followed the Muslim faith. Stop reporting that stupid shit.

[Deftscythe]

They don't always have sources and constantly using them REALLY makes you sound like a liberal windbag instead of a well reasoned person supporting a liberal. Following those blogs and using them as your sources just digs yourself into a hardcore partisan hole.

I mean, that McCain being a dictator shit is ludicrous and posted as actual news. One time Obama accidentally said he followed the Muslim faith. Stop reporting that stupid shit.

The site may have a very strong slant, but you can just watch the video without reading the article then draw your own conclusion.

[Elvis]

It's just a universal problem of people using articles that have no sources OR are simply not credible. The DailyKos may or may not be credible. It has an agenda. So does our MSM.

A blog is just an editorial. It might simply be the first notification of a particular event that the poster observed.

The ideal thing to do would be to find multiple sources covering the same occurrence. No one does that here though. In fact, I don't think most people go that far to get 'context.'

I say just post whatever and let people tear it apart if it's called for.

[Elvis]

Ok, so 'beginning Oct. 1 for 12 months, the [1st Brigade Combat Team of the 3rd Infantry Division] will be under the day-to-day control of U.S. Army North" -- "the first time an active unit has been given a dedicated assignment to NorthCom, a joint command established in 2002 to provide command and control for federal homeland defense efforts and coordinate defense support of civil authorities.'

The DemocracyNow broadcast I posted earlier covers that.

Main source:
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/0...eland_090708w/

3rd Infantry’s 1st BCT trains for a new dwell-time mission. Helping ‘people at home’ may become a permanent part of the active Army


Excerpt:

hey'll learn new skills, use some of the ones they acquired in the war zone and more than likely will not be shot at while doing any of it.

They may be called upon to help with civil unrest and crowd control or to deal with potentially horrific scenarios such as massive poisoning and chaos in response to a chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear or high-yield explosive, or CBRNE, attack. . . .

The 1st BCT's soldiers also will learn how to use "the first ever nonlethal package that the Army has fielded," 1st BCT commander Col. Roger Cloutier said, referring to crowd and traffic control equipment and nonlethal weapons designed to subdue unruly or dangerous individuals without killing them.

"It's a new modular package of nonlethal capabilities that they're fielding. They've been using pieces of it in Iraq, but this is the first time that these modules were consolidated and this package fielded, and because of this mission we’re undertaking we were the first to get it."

The package includes equipment to stand up a hasty road block; spike strips for slowing, stopping or controlling traffic; shields and batons; and, beanbag bullets.

"I was the first guy in the brigade to get Tasered," said Cloutier, describing the experience as "your worst muscle cramp ever -- times 10 throughout your whole body". . . .

The brigade will not change its name, but the force will be known for the next year as a CBRNE Consequence Management Response Force, or CCMRF (pronounced "sea-smurf").

Baby steps.

[Demosthenes11]

you say that but tear apart anyone that even mentions fox news

i r confuzed

[Beckwin]

To bring things a little more back on topic:

National Rasmussen Tracking Obama 51, McCain 45 Obama +6
National Hotline/FD Tracking Obama 47, McCain 42 Obama +5
National Pew Research Obama 49, McCain 43 Obama +6
Pennsylvania Quinnipiac Obama 54, McCain 39 Obama +15
Ohio Quinnipiac Obama 50, McCain 42 Obama +8
Florida Quinnipiac Obama 51, McCain 43 Obama +8
National GW/Battleground Tracking Obama 48, McCain 46 Obama +2
Pennsylvania Franklin & Marshall Obama 45, McCain 38 Obama +7

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...lls/index.html

holy shit. I don't post polls or even take too much stock into them, but I've been monitoring them for awhile and this is a really significant swing, in my mind. Being ahead by that much in FL and MI is really huge, not to mention that for now it seems pennsylvania is completely off the table.

can we have the election tomorrow please?

[Dantrag]

I live in Florida, don't get your hopes up. It'll be red no matter how the votes go 11/4

[Maxxthepenguin]

It's just a universal problem of people using articles that have no sources OR are simply not credible. The DailyKos may or may not be credible. It has an agenda. So does our MSM.

Our mass media has a lot more scruples (by necessity) and has a lot more credibility on the line with everything they say. They get called on shit and are forced to respond (even if you think it's not enough, it actually happens.) Their articles are written by people who usually have a broader knowledge and discuss things with friends who have opposing viewpoints.

A blog is just an editorial. It might simply be the first notification of a particular event that the poster observed.

The ideal thing to do would be to find multiple sources covering the same occurrence. No one does that here though. In fact, I don't think most people go that far to get 'context.'

I say just post whatever and let people tear it apart if it's called for.

I don't see people tearing people apart for posting that stuff, not nearly as much as Swampdonkey et al for his bullshit sources, that's why I'm posting this. Let's try to elevate ourselves above this shit. Just because you aren't called on it doesn't mean you should be doing it wrong.

[Elvis]

you say that but tear apart anyone that even mentions fox news

i r confuzed

Me? I think we should be critical of all of the MSM.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Me? I think we should be critical of all of the MSM.

Be critical of everything, but recognize who has more to lose. I mean the New York Times gets slammed when it has an inaccuracy. That makes it more credible.

The only thing that I completely trust is factcheck.org

[Elvis]

Our mass media has a lot more scruples (by necessity) and has a lot more credibility on the line with everything they say. They get called on shit and are forced to respond (even if you think it's not enough, it actually happens.) Their articles are written by people who usually have a broader knowledge and discuss things with friends who have opposing viewpoints.

I don't see people tearing people apart for posting that stuff, not nearly as much as Swampdonkey et al for his bullshit sources, that's why I'm posting this. Let's try to elevate ourselves above this shit. Just because you aren't called on it doesn't mean you should be doing it wrong.

It's going to be difficult to debate this point when neither of us is linking a source to a study of MSM reporting accuracy/bias/etc.

I respect your opinion and believe you have your sources. I have mine (the Chomsky 'propaganda model' and analysis in Manufacturing Consent). But people instinctively roll their eyes at academic studies - and Chomsky. Regurgitating that analysis and letting the ideas stand up on their own merit is what we should do though to have a real discussion about this.

Since that will take another thread/lots of blah blah blahing, I'll let it go.

[Olo401]

So the VP debate moderator has a financial stake in Obama winning the election. Wonder if she'll state that before the debate starts.

Considering how she was in the tank for Bush/Cheney during the 04 debates, I think now we can consider Gwen Ifill a fairly objective moderator. Don't you agree?

Coke is republican right? You know the can is red, not blue.

Anyway, Coke owns pepsi

edit: Actually, RC owns both, so now I'm really confused.

COKE ÜBER ALLES!

[Dimmauk]

I think its funny how Repubs are already setting up the excuse for Palin not doing well in the debates. The fake outrage about the Moderator is laughable.

[Muffins]

Ok, so 'beginning Oct. 1 for 12 months, the [1st Brigade Combat Team of the 3rd Infantry Division] will be under the day-to-day control of U.S. Army North" -- "the first time an active unit has been given a dedicated assignment to NorthCom, a joint command established in 2002 to provide command and control for federal homeland defense efforts and coordinate defense support of civil authorities.'

The DemocracyNow broadcast I posted earlier covers that.

Main source:
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/0...eland_090708w/

3rd Infantry’s 1st BCT trains for a new dwell-time mission. Helping ‘people at home’ may become a permanent part of the active Army


Excerpt:



Baby steps.

The thing that confuses me most about this mission is that its stated roles are already covered by a number of trained specialists. Everything outlined in their mission is something states can already make use of through their own law enforcement, first responders, medical teams, FEMA, etc. Why does the Army suddenly have to get involved and relinquish these roles from state authorities?

Armies are trained to kill people and blow things up, not "help people at home". Christ, with the militarization of the police force witnessed during the conventions, is the Army even necessary for crowd control and suppressing civil unrest?

[Elvis]

The thing that confuses me most about this mission is that its stated roles are already covered by a number of trained specialists. Everything outlined in their mission is something states can already make use of through their own law enforcement, first responders, medical teams, FEMA, etc. Why does the Army suddenly have to get involved and relinquish these roles from state authorities?

Armies are trained to kill people and blow things up, not "help people at home". Christ, with the militarization of the police force witnessed during the conventions, is the Army even necessary for crowd control and suppressing civil unrest?

You're absolutely right IMO, in your assertions. The MSM didn't cover this much at all either.

This comes back to my views on the MSM on a whole. In the propaganda model, proposed by Chomsky and Hermann, the MSM functions within a rigid framework of ideas. How ideas are shaped by corporate interest/etc.

They have set parameters for themselves. These are self-perpetuating as long as corporate interest affects government policy and it's not some big conspiracy where one shadow group pulls the strings.

Here is an article from Globalresearch.ca about the deployment:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...t=va&aid=10366

Excerpt:

As is typical, very few members of the media even mentioned any of this, let alone discussed it (and I failed to give this the attention it deserved at the time), but Congressional Quarterly's Jeff Stein wrote an excellent article at the time detailing the process and noted that "despite such a radical turn, the new law garnered little dissent, or even attention, on the Hill." Stein also noted that while "the blogosphere, of course, was all over it . . . a search of The Washington Post and New York Times archives, using the terms 'Insurrection Act,' 'martial law' and 'Congress,' came up empty.

The blogger/entry in question who did a search on possible coverage of said bill:
http://public.cq.com/public/20061201_homeland.html

Excerpts from The American Conservative article by James Bovard, referenced in the Globalresearch.ca article:

The Defense Authorization Act of 2006, passed on Sept. 30, empowers President George W. Bush to impose martial law in the event of a terrorist "incident," if he or other federal officials perceive a shortfall of "public order," or even in response to antiwar protests that get unruly as a result of government provocations. . . .

It only took a few paragraphs in a $500 billion, 591-page bill to raze one of the most important limits on federal power. Congress passed the Insurrection Act in 1807 to severely restrict the president's ability to deploy the military within the United States. The Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 tightened these restrictions, imposing a two-year prison sentence on anyone who used the military within the U.S. without the express permission of Congress. But there is a loophole: Posse Comitatus is waived if the president invokes the Insurrection Act.

Section 1076 of the John Warner National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2007 changed the name of the key provision in the statute book from "Insurrection Act" to "Enforcement of the Laws to Restore Public Order Act." The Insurrection Act of 1807 stated that the president could deploy troops within the United States only "to suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy." The new law expands the list to include “natural disaster, epidemic, or other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack or incident, or other condition" -- and such "condition" is not defined or limited. . .

The story of how Section 1076 became law vivifies how expanding government power is almost always the correct answer in Washington. Some people have claimed the provision was slipped into the bill in the middle of the night. In reality, the administration clearly signaled its intent and almost no one in the media or Congress tried to stop it . . . .

Section 1076 was supported by both conservatives and liberals. Sen. Carl Levin (D-Mich.), the ranking Democratic member on the Senate Armed Services Committee, co-wrote the provision along with committee chairman Sen. John Warner (R-Va.). Sen. Ted Kennedy openly endorsed it, and Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-Calif.), then-chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, was an avid proponent. . . .

Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.), the ranking Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee, warned on Sept. 19 that "we certainly do not need to make it easier for Presidents to declare martial law," but his alarm got no response. Ten days later, he commented in the Congressional Record: "Using the military for law enforcement goes against one of the founding tenets of our democracy." Leahy further condemned the process, declaring that it "was just slipped in the defense bill as a rider with little study. Other congressional committees with jurisdiction over these matters had no chance to comment, let alone hold hearings on, these proposals."

[Tyche]

Ifill will make a ton of money if Obama wins the election, I don't think that can be debated or argued. Still, she'll moderate fine, and may actually manufacture a bias toward Palin in fear of repercussions since this story "broke" to the mass media. I still think Palin could hold her own in the debate. It's going to be fantastically entertaining none-the-less. We should make a Sarah Palin debate drinking game.