Sarah Palin, Republican Vice Presidential Candidate

[Avinor]

I'm out now, thanks. I was under fire back in '90-91.

It is odd that most of the military is conservative, considering that most of them are pretty poor. Odd how values and principal can outweigh demagogery.

Oh, and I quoted this because someone said I was unraveling earlier and this made me lol.

Conservatives are the party of 'values and principal' as much as they are the party of small government and fiscal responsibility. Stop ascribing to the team mentality of political parties and see what the fuck is really going on in the world and in our country. Bush and the people he's surrounded himself with are directly responsible for a massive amount of horrible decisions that has cost our country untold amounts of money, lives, and clout on the world stage. McCain may have been a maverick on some issues, but by and large he'd be continuing the same policies of Bush, with the same people, and our country can't afford (maybe literally) another 4 years of this BS.

[Silenus]

You are aware that we gave arms to Iran too? The goal was to weaken both of them equally since we disliked both.

Also, I take umbrage that you are denigrating our fighting men and women by saying that Al-Qaeda is more clever and resourceful then they are.

It's a fact of life we have to live with. We kill three of them with a million dollar Hellfire, they kill four of us with machetes.

Did we think to fly jumbo jets into their towers?

Keep underestimating your enemy. I won't.

So many of you, so little work I'm getting done today ; ;

[Elvis]

People hate us because of many things. Principal among the reasons in Islamofascist land is our love of Israel. Chief, though, would be our refusal to bend our knee to sharia law.

And dude, either banninate me or not. Your pitiful attempts at curbing my meaningful and insightful rhetoric have failed. I'm not trolling. I just don't agree with you. Get over it. Most people don't agree with you. Just here, on this particular website, most do, and some pretend to.

See how that works?

Who said you need a consensus to be right? Aren't you an example?

One 'you' amongst a sea of 'us'. That's your mentality after all.

Look, if you want to ignore the first Gulf War. If you want to ignore the Iraq sanctions. If you want to ignore all the OTHER imperialist endeavors of the American Empire, then so be it.

We'll always be in a perpetual state of conflict because people lack a proper knowledge of history. It's not like being a Muslim or Jew or Christian is unique.

It's about the economic policies we impose in these areas of interest. It's about how we intervene and incite the destruction of popular movements in these areas of interest.

Does our support of Israel specifically play a role in the problems we have in the ME? Of course. It's not the entire reason though and certainly NOT in the context that YOU have stated.

[Beckwin]

On a serious note:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonath..._Michigan.html

Things not looking good for McCain; MI was a legitimate battleground not long ago. I'm guessing he's gonna redistribute those efforts to maybe Ohio, Florida, and New Mexico? he's kinda running out of options to try and win battleground states, because all of the sudden Virginia, North Carolina, and Florida are concerns to defend.

[Silenus]

Conservatives are the party of 'values and principal' as much as they are the party of small government and fiscal responsibility. Stop ascribing to the team mentality of political parties and see what the fuck is really going on in the world and in our country. Bush and the people he's surrounded himself with are directly responsible for a massive amount of horrible decisions that has cost our country untold amounts of money, lives, and clout on the world stage. McCain may have been a maverick on some issues, but by and large he'd be continuing the same policies of Bush, with the same people, and our country can't afford (maybe literally) another 4 years of this BS.

You know much, but failed to name one conservative in that paragraph.

Bush has bankrupted or ruined every company he ran. And now we're broke. The man spent more money than we could print, literally.

McCain was one phone call away from being a Democrat presidential candidate.

Quit looking to the government to solve problems. It's not what they do.

[Silenus]

Who said you need a consensus to be right? Aren't you an example?

One 'you' amongst a sea of 'us'. That's your mentality after all.

Look, if you want to ignore the first Gulf War. If you want to ignore the Iraq sanctions. If you want to ignore all the OTHER imperialist endeavors of the American Empire, then so be it.

We'll always be in a perpetual state of conflict because people lack a proper knowledge of history. It's not like being a Muslim or Jew or Christian is unique.

It's about the economic policies we impose in these areas of interest. It's about how we intervene and incite the destruction of popular movements in these areas of interest.

Does our support of Israel specifically play a role in the problems we have in the ME? Of course. It's not the entire reason though and certainly NOT in the context that YOU have stated.

Er, ignore the first Gulf war? Um, okay.

Iraq sanctions? When they were selling oil to the French and Russians in violation of those sanctions? Um, okay.

America is and has been in a perpetual state of conflict? That would be correct only if you substituted "Moslems" for "America."

It's all about Israel. And if it wasn't, it would still be enough to be somewhat about Israel.

[Olo401]

It is odd that most of the military is conservative, considering that most of them are pretty poor. Odd how values and principal can outweigh demagogery.

Yes, how odd it is.

[aurik]

It is odd that most of the military is conservative, considering that most of them are pretty poor. Odd how values and principal can outweigh demagogery.

Time to make some enemies! I don't think that the military is conservative is because of values and principal.

Three reasons why:

1) Military people are generally not smart. I appreciate their sacrifice, but there's no getting around the fact that privileged, overeducated kids get scholarships and go to college, while the army is largely composed of underprivileged, undereducated kids who see military service as their best opportunity to make a good life: a few years in the military and they can get a college education, and then get a good job so that they can provide for their children. Combine this with the statistic that higher educated people are generally progressive, and you've got a recipe for a conservative population in the military.

2) Then there's the whole army indoctrination thing. I remember when Jerseyprophet was absolutely bulletproof sure that the 9/11 hijackers had come from Iraq. And when we broke it to him that they were mostly from Saudi Arabia, he nearly had a breakdown on the board. It's known as coginitive dissonance: we all want to feel like we're doing the "right thing", so naturally our brain makes adjustments so that our beliefs are in line with out actions. Well, if you're a member of a military force that executes mainly conservative agendas, naturally, you're going to want to believe in the conservative agenda.

3) The military is seen as a conservative bastion, and this is a self-fulfilling prophecy. How many libertarians, that fundamentally disagree with 99% of military folk, are going to want to join that operation? Damn few. How many people who object to the Iraq war are lining up to be recruited? Damn few.

So, summary, I think that military folk have no more principals and values than non-military folk. The reason they're conservative is due to a disproportionate population which draws on a typically conservative base, indoctrination, and the fact that "the military is conservative" is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[Beckwin]

you can't claim to be talking about "real conservatives" but be in support of the Iraq war.

doesn't work that way.

[Olo401]

So many of you, so little work I'm getting done today ; ;

What's wrong? Your handlers at the Club for Growth expected you to convert more than zero gamers votes today?

[Elvis]

We've violated UN law and have been denounced by the World Court countless times.

Where is the 'punishment'?

You're a fucking hypocrite.

[Dimmauk]

Anyone else think that McCain and Palin aren't really serious about this election? It seems like they picked Palin so they wouldnt taint a Republican member with a loss as VP. It like when the starters get pulled from a losing game so they dont get hurt.

[Silenus]

"Obama got 44 contributions worth about $27,000 and Paul 23 for about $19,300. Republican John McCain, an Iraq war supporter and Vietnam prisoner of war, was third with about $18,500 from 32 donors.

In 2004, military personnel contributed $1.2 million to presidential and congressional candidates, the center said. This year, those donations are about $200,000."

Wow, looks like the military guys may be a little strapped for cash these days. I left out the part where the entire contributions were described as "miniscule" for fear of offending some of you.

[Avinor]

You know much, but failed to name one conservative in that paragraph.

Bush has bankrupted or ruined every company he ran. And now we're broke. The man spent more money than we could print, literally.

McCain was one phone call away from being a Democrat presidential candidate.

Quit looking to the government to solve problems. It's not what they do.

McCain has been running hot and heavy as a right winger. His VP choice speaks volumes to that. I have no doubt that he is a good man, and a patriot. I think he got worn down enough and wanted to win, so let the GOP campaign team take over - play to the base.

And now he's advocating the same things that Bush has done - his tax cuts, the war, and his foreign policy / attitude. I hope and pray that the old McCain will surface if he does happen to win, but based on the evidence so far, he's not the same man. And god forbid something happen to him and Palin became President.

Look, we've had record deficits, a war in Iraq that has cost 13 figures (reasons for going/staying aside, we've spent a fuckton of money - remember that literal plane full of cash we sent over?), our clout on the world stage has plummeted, our goodwill after 9/11 evaporated long ago, and the war in Afghanistan - the war that was justified and was doing some good - has been ignored as we sent troops and money to Iraq.

Maybe I shouldn't punish McCain for Bush's fuckups, but there are enough ties between the two that I can not, as a concerned American citizen, vote to essentially continue this administration. We need a fresh break, we need a new group of minds in command. We also need a Democrat to appoint new Justices to maintain a balance on the Supreme Court, because despite what Mitt Romney said at the RNC, the Court leans conservative 5 to 4, and I'm not about to let that ratio lean more to the right.

[Beckwin]

you're not a real conservative if you support the iraq war.

[Silenus]

lol the World Court? The one we wisely didn't put our head through the noose for?

Do you guys really thing the rest of the world has some magical answer to how to get along with islamofascists, and we're just not getting the memos?

Paris burned. London burned. Madrid blew up.

And yes, conservatives fight wars. Difference is, when we pick 'em, we fight 'em to win.

To the dude saying the McCain should have died in Viet Nam and that the Viet Nam war was a loss, I am curious: Do you really think the lives of 58,671 Americans are the same as 3.5 million Vietnamese? That always seemed racist to me. Oh, that's right, we lost because we left.

And we should leave Iraq, amirite?

[Elvis]

My point exactly. Your views work fine if we accept that America defines what is right and wrong and everyone who disagrees is an enemy or simply not worth listening to.

Keep trolling.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Silenus uses the term "Islamofascists".

There's really not much else to be said aside from gdi, why did I have to have class when this guy went nuts.

[Correction]

You just asserted that the Vietnam war was winnable.

Nice!

[Neosutra]

Time to make some enemies! I don't think that the military is conservative is because of values and principal.

Three reasons why:

1) Military people are generally not smart. I appreciate their sacrifice, but there's no getting around the fact that privileged, overeducated kids get scholarships and go to college, while the army is largely composed of underprivileged, undereducated kids who see military service as their best opportunity to make a good life: a few years in the military and they can get a college education, and then get a good job so that they can provide for their children. Combine this with the statistic that higher educated people are generally progressive, and you've got a recipe for a conservative population in the military.

2) Then there's the whole army indoctrination thing. I remember when Jerseyprophet was absolutely bulletproof sure that the 9/11 hijackers had come from Iraq. And when we broke it to him that they were mostly from Saudi Arabia, he nearly had a breakdown on the board. It's known as coginitive dissonance: we all want to feel like we're doing the "right thing", so naturally our brain makes adjustments so that our beliefs are in line with out actions. Well, if you're a member of a military force that executes mainly conservative agendas, naturally, you're going to want to believe in the conservative agenda.

3) The military is seen as a conservative bastion, and this is a self-fulfilling prophecy. How many libertarians, that fundamentally disagree with 99% of military folk, are going to want to join that operation? Damn few. How many people who object to the Iraq war are lining up to be recruited? Damn few.

So, summary, I think that military folk have no more principals and values than non-military folk. The reason they're conservative is due to a disproportionate population which draws on a typically conservative base, indoctrination, and the fact that "the military is conservative" is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Being a liberal atheist soldier, I agree with most of what you said here. However change the word "not smart" to generally "less educated".

Also, I oppose the Iraq war, bush, 90% of conservative values, am an atheist, and still not only re-upped but also went on to get commissioned in an era that the motivations of the politicians that lead me dont really represent me.

The reason why? The guy/girl standing next to me in formation. War will always be about politics and greed, noble causes are excuses people use to get them through the utter hell of war. It is very challenging to die for something you dont beleive in. It is less difficult to put your life on the line for your brothers in arms.

You can choose not to be a pawn, but the game will still be played. I became an officer to help change that, even if just a little bit.