Sarah Palin, Republican Vice Presidential Candidate

[Silenus]

If you think all the UN does is act as the world's police you're even more retarded than you appear.

World police and pizza delivery guy. Better?

[Aerin]

World police and pizza delivery guy. Better?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations

Just go read it, then try to come back with an actual rebuttal.

[Silenus]

See how the UN actually works, how corrupt it is, how absolutely vile it is, and then kid yourself into thinking they're in a better position to handle our enemies than we are.

[Elvis]

Back to stuff that matters:

McCain abandons efforts to win Michigan

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i...zmuvQD93IICRO0

[Dimmauk]

Palin’s new plan: Go after Biden

Mike Allen 1 hour, 38 minutes ago

ST. LOUIS — Sarah Palin plans to go on the attack in tonight’s debate, hitting Joe Biden for what she will call his foreign policy blunders and penchant for adopting liberal positions on taxes and other issues, according to campaign officials involved in prepping her for tonight’s showdown.


The Palin camp is projecting surprising self-confidence in the pre-debate hours, despite the vice presidential nominee’s uneven — and, at some points, peculiar — performances in recent television interviews, the officials say. Top advisers to John McCain privately say Palin’s recent CBS interview was a borderline disaster, especially since it played out in several segments over several days. Tonight will be different, they say.

“This is going to finally put her back into a position where we see her like we saw her the first couple weeks,” a McCain official said. “She was herself. She was authentic, and people related to that. ... Tonight, she’ll get into a rhythm. You’re going to see her in a way that you haven’t seen her yet.”

By contrast, Biden plans what an aide calls "a just-the-facts, prosecutorial approach laying out the case against McCain and defending Obama." The aide said Biden will be "keeping the eye on the target, which is McCain."

It is hard to imagine higher stakes for a vice presidential nominee on the national stage. Palin wowed even her biggest skeptics with her spirited introduction to the American people at the Republican National Convention last month. It’s been downhill since then, however. She has been largely sheltered from unscripted moments on the campaign trail. And, when she has exposed herself to improvisation or tough questioning, Palin has been criticized for offering vague and at times unusual responses.

Palin advisers say that she remains just as popular with much of the Republican base as she was a month ago when her convention speech was hailed as a home run. But her ratings have eroded in polls since then, and the advisers see the 90-minute debate at 9 p.m. Eastern as a chance for a swift turnaround from what they call “negativity” in her news coverage.

From her debate playbook, as described by McCain officials:

— Throw Biden’s own words back at him.

“There’s going to be a lot of opportunities to use Joe Biden’s words against him — and not his gaffes,” an official said. “When he says raising taxes is patriotic, that’s a policy position. That’s what he believes. She’s going to use those against him.”

(On ABC’s “Good Morning America” last month, in explaining the need for the wealthiest Americans to pay more taxes, Biden said: “It's time to be patriotic ... time to jump in, time to be part of the deal, time to help get America out of the rut.”)

— Highlight past Biden foreign-policy positions as a way to undermine his core strength.

“He’s a celebrated foreign policy expert, but he has been wrong … dating back to the Reagan administration,” the official said. “There are opportunities there for her to jump in.”

One example that was provided was Biden’s reference to North Korea as “a paper tiger” on CBS’s “The Early Show” in 2006. (“I would rather have seen it do exactly what it did, demonstrate to the whole world that it is in fact a paper tiger.”)

Another example noted by the campaign was voting for defense cuts during the Reagan administration, and voting against the first Gulf war in 1991. (PolitiFact.com points out that he voted with the majority of Senate Democrats on the resolution.)

— Highlight places where Biden and Barack Obama have differed, including primary-season statements about Obama’s readiness to lead and his positions on Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan.

“He voted for the Iraq war, and Obama said that was poor judgment,” the official. “There are a lot of wedge positions between Obama and Biden.”

McCain officials say they are optimistic despite her falling credibility and likability in polls.

“Nobody who’s in the middle of a campaign takes a minute to panic,” an aide said. “Every single day, there’s an ebb and flow — that’s what makes these things exciting. She’s been there before. She’s done this before. She’s been successful. And we as a campaign expect she will rise to the occasion and be strong.”



I can't wait for tonight!!

[Silenus]

This has been really fun. Spirited debate and what not. Enjoyed many of your comments. Oh, except for the guy that wants me shot. Him I didn't enjoy that much.

ttfn

[Maxxthepenguin]

I'm not making my point here. Let me say it thusly:

You stated what you believe is the oldest form of government.

That form of government no longer exists.

Our form of government, uniquely American, has existed from 1776 and continues on through today.

Very few current governments can say that.

We are one of the oldest forms of government currently in existence.

Did I explain it better that time?

And lol @ my wiki skills aside, you missed the point. entirely.

Well, our government has changed, but that's largely because there were included provisions for change. It's a mercurial construct that changes based largely on the will of the people. It was in recognizing the need to have a government that changes and providing the means to dull radical change (particularly in our checks and balances systems) that the founders made something that was stable.

[Aerin]

See how the UN actually works, how corrupt it is, how absolutely vile it is, and then kid yourself into thinking they're in a better position to handle our enemies than we are.

You're either really young and just have no fucking clue, or your Alzheimer's has really set in.

And before you go.

we don't even pay our rent there

The Assembly has established the principle that the UN should not be overly dependent on any one member to finance its operations. Thus, there is a 'ceiling' rate, setting the maximum amount any member is assessed for the regular budget. In December 2000, the Assembly revised the scale of assessments to reflect current global circumstances. As part of that revision, the regular budget ceiling was reduced from 25% to 22%. The U.S. is the only member that has met the ceiling.

http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/dpko/co...A/61/11&Lang=E

[Beckwin]

i hope you get beheaded and they put it on youtube. because the islamofascists are COMING FOR YOU for telling the truth. they need the liberal conspiracy to take hold of the country so they can catch us off-guard.

[Elvis]

Oh and I'm surprised Swamp didn't jump on this yet:

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10...bama-blue-day/

Remember the kid who wore a t-shirt that said Obama: A terrorist's best friend?

How do we compare the 2 scenarios? Right off the bat, I think we can agree that the t-shirt was morally unacceptable. It's not conducive to a debate of any kind for obvious reasons.

I'd say no political indoctrination (anymore than there already exists inherently) in either case. It's alright to discuss this stuff w/ your teacher IMO but they shouldn't be campaigning in the school environment.

There needs to be a distinction between campaigning and a open discussion on all candidates.

[Stiker]

This makes no sense. Did you read that from a Rush Limbaugh Fortune Cookie?

Actually IIRC, that is a quote from Winston Churchill (correct me if I'm wrong). I always remembered it being "If you are young and you cannot be liberal, you have no heart; however, if you are old and cannot be conservative you have no brain."

(EDIT: The word for word quote: "Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has not heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains." - Winston Churchill, soruce: http://www.wisdomquotes.com/000973.html)

Either way, I think we can all agree on one thing: Silenus is dumb as a brick.

[Rhinox]

I listen to sean hannity and mark levin everyday sorta like a morbid curiousity and I swear to god you can't differentiate their talking points with Silenus. I mean seriously dude you're not even original.


grade A trolling though I did have a few hearty laughs.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

I don't believe there is any child exemption under fairtax; I think it would make things a lot more difficult for families like yours.

That said, I was listening to McCain talk about his tax policies the other night on c-span, and some of them are downright good ideas. I hope Obama steals the ideas when he is elected

There is a child exemption!

Edit: So we don't get lost in semantics again, The pre-bate (tax refund at the beginning of every month) goes up for every person in your household.

[Stiker]

Oh and I'm surprised Swamp didn't jump on this yet:

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10...bama-blue-day/

Remember the kid who wore a t-shirt that said Obama: A terrorist's best friend?

How do we compare the 2 scenarios? Right off the bat, I think we can agree that the t-shirt was morally unacceptable. It's not conducive to a debate of any kind for obvious reasons.

I'd say no political indoctrination (anymore than there already exists inherently) in either case. It's alright to discuss this stuff w/ your teacher IMO but they shouldn't be campaigning in the school environment.

There needs to be a distinction between campaigning and a open discussion on all candidates.

I find it really funny that conservatives will openly bash this when many churches all across the nation very openly support and push McCain.

In fact, I saw something posted on Facebook today that a letter by Bishop Martino (from Scranton, PA) has been sent out to all parishes to be read in place of the homily this Sunday at all Masses. The letter states, very plainly, that the most important topic one can vote on this election is the right to life, specifically anti-abortion and anti-euthanasia, and that this trumps any other topic that comes up as electoral concerns. (source: http://www.dioceseofscranton.org/Bis...er30th2008.asp)

He has also stated that he will refuse to give Joseph Biden communion. (source: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/sep/08090212.html)

Around my church, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that supports Obama (I'm Methodist and from Texas). I can't site any sources, but I'm sure you can figure out what I'm talking about.

But, man, those teachers wearing blue shirts are really going to warp young voters minds right?

[Zosi]

Oh and I'm surprised Swamp didn't jump on this yet:

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10...bama-blue-day/

Remember the kid who wore a t-shirt that said Obama: A terrorist's best friend?

How do we compare the 2 scenarios? Right off the bat, I think we can agree that the t-shirt was morally unacceptable. It's not conducive to a debate of any kind for obvious reasons.

I'd say no political indoctrination (anymore than there already exists inherently) in either case. It's alright to discuss this stuff w/ your teacher IMO but they shouldn't be campaigning in the school environment.

There needs to be a distinction between campaigning and a open discussion on all candidates.

Political campaigning is getting more and more like being a member of a gang every day. Now it's "politicking" if you wear your party's COLOR? I can understand not wanting teachers to wear Obama shirts, or spend their class time discussing politics, but whining about wearing the color blue is just pure bullshit.

Maybe they're just sore because of the fact that if teachers banded together and all wore the Republican color, they'd be accused of trying to start a Communist uprising.

[aurik]

There is a child exemption!

Is there? I googled "fairtax child exemption" and didn't get any relevant hits that asserted there was definitely one.

One thing I really like about McCain's tax policy ideas is the $5k healthcare credit. However, I think that it is critically important that if this is implemented, that the current tax exemption for work-obtained health care is rescinded. In fact, rescinding tax breaks on health care is just a fundamentally good idea. Right now, there's a huge incentive for my place of employment to pay me in the form of health insurance that quite frankly as a single, young, healthy, non-smoking, relatively wealthy male I simply don't need. Similarly, people without health benefits from their jobs are faced with insurance that is artificially expensive due to the fact that it's generally paid for with pre-tax dollars.

Ideally, I'd like to see a health care system that is a blend between Canada's system and the private system here in the states. Basic medical care should be provided for everyone to a degree. Extended coverage purchased privately. Instead of giving every person a $5k for medical expenses, use that money to subsidize medical education (which is prohibitively expensive in the USA) and then require doctors to help provide the basic care.

[Zosi]

Well, our government has changed, but that's largely because there were included provisions for change. It's a mercurial construct that changes based largely on the will of the people. It was in recognizing the need to have a government that changes and providing the means to dull radical change (particularly in our checks and balances systems) that the founders made something that was stable.

He's just avoiding the question anyways. His original statement was about "form of government", which is completely and utterly wrong. Our "form of government is still quite new, immature and malleable by most standards. We basically created the idea of a representative democracy, and it's only 230 years old, whereas various forms of monarchy, republic and even hereditary dictatorships can boast of longer stretches of existence than that and a history going back thousands of years. To pick a specific example, the United Kingdom's current system of constitutional monarchy has at least 70 years on us, although as with most long-lived government systems (including ours), it has changed dramatically in those 300ish years.

His revised argument (that our government is one of the most mature of the currently existing governments of the world, my rephrasing), while possibly correct, is meaningless. As you say, our Constitution was designed to accommodate change without violent revolution, and it has mostly succeeded in that. That doesn't mean that we haven't changed, just that we've mostly avoided shooting and stabbing each other over it.

On the other hand, it's hard to judge, because in a sense, our government (not the form, the actual effective entity) changes more rapidly than any other. Our elected officials rotate regularly, and while there's been a common thread of "American values", it's hard to argue that our government hasn't majorly changed course several times in the past 230 years.

[aurik]

There's a difference between showing support for your candidate in your everyday life and organizing a pro-<candidate> day in school. Teachers have a special authority relationship with their students. With authority comes responsibility, and in this case it is the responsibility to allow the student to reach his own conclusions, whether it be about religion, politics, or other "opinion" issues.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Is there? I googled "fairtax child exemption" and didn't get any relevant hits that asserted there was definitely one.

I edited by response but just in case you didn't see it, it's not an "exemption" per se, but the prebate does go up if you have a kid. I consider that the equivalent of an exemption under the current system.

[Muffins]

War. It's like football, with corpses instead of field goals.

It's a few pages old, but I always saw the comparison of war and football to be the most appropriate. I remember hearing someone doing a monologue on that comparison, too. IIRC, it was set with the theme of America's need to start new wars - whether it be against nations or ideas (drugs, poverty, etc) - met with the kind of game day excitement you get each Sunday.

I wish I could find it, Google isn't being kind to me.

Football does have a number of interesting similarities to theatrics and drama of war, though. Not just the game, but the organization, the spectacle, and the attitudes. ;o