Sarah Palin, Republican Vice Presidential Candidate

[GRT]

Seemed pretty boring and rehashed to me, which I feel benefits McCain. Any time Obama isn't exciting people I think he loses overall, so I guess from that POV McCain "wins"?

LOL

You know, if I was a McCain supporter I'd be greatly offended by that.

[archibaldcrane]

You've got it backwards. Obama is sitting on a huge lead, McCain is the one who needs to excite people in order to get more votes.

I don't think McCain is capable of being particularly exciting, so I guess I felt he may have "won" just relative to the potential of the two candidates.

I can't imagine that debate number 3 is going to turn up much new information either, which sucks.

[Olo401]

Catching up here.. bear with me.

so all mccain said about social security was "social security isnt that hard to fix. people know the problem and people know the solutions." then stopped there and moved on. apparently he doesn't need to elaborate or go into specifics on many of his points, neat.

That whole q&a section had me rolling - because if you're a educated voter or you're someone who is/will be receiving your SSI savings in the next five years you know how McCain would "fix" Social Security - by putting it into the stock market that's in the fuckin' tank right now.

It's Pat Buchanan what do you expect lol, I find it so funny how he and Rachel Maddow are so congenial to one another when they are at polar opposites politically.

Not to mention Buchanan's anti-gay rant at the 92 RNC convention.. That kind of thing is hard to forgive. But Rachel I guess turned him a bit around because from what I've heard they're quite good friends. She has a knack for doing that kinda thing.

If health care is a right, then someone should be responsible for providing me with a megaphone when I exercise my right to free speech.

Sure thing I'll do it for ya Swampy - but when someone exercises their right to shove the megaphone up yer ass I hope you take advantage of your right to health care.

I want to answer this since I don't think anyone really hit upon the real reason why public infrastructure jobs keep everyone employed.

The real reason is that employing the lower / lower-middle class puts money into their pockets, and that money is money they're likely to spend. When they spend money, goods and services are needed, which in turn employ people to produce those goods and services. Et cetera et cetera up the chain.

It's sort of the opposite of trickle-down economics.

I was trying to figure out what the big deal was in that whole conversation. It seemed to me that, as usual, Swampy was trying to equate having a job (at IBM, using his example) to a job rebuilding the infrastructure of the country (like the WPA did during the years of the Great Depression). What he needs to understand is that it'd be for people who lose their jobs at IBM and elsewhere - to keep people working and keep the country moving.

I don't think any of us here are old enough to have known what it was like to live through the worst economic times in the country's history. But we're about to go through times that will potentially be as bad or worse. In those kind of conditions, any job that puts food on the table for you and your family is good. You can't be picky about what you've got when the alternative is nothing.

[Amele]

I was trying to figure out what the big deal was in that whole conversation. It seemed to me that, as usual, Swampy was trying to equate having a job (at IBM, using his example) to a job rebuilding the infrastructure of the country (like the WPA did during the years of the Great Depression). What he needs to understand is that it'd be for people who lose their jobs at IBM and elsewhere - to keep people working and keep the country moving.

I don't think any of us here are old enough to have known what it was like to live through the worst economic times in the country's history. But we're about to go through times that will potentially be as bad or worse. In those kind of conditions, any job that put food on the table for you and your family is good. You can't be picky about what you've got when the alternative is nothing.

it's really alot simpler. aurik hit it on the head perfectly. paying guy A a good living wage to repair that road, is going to keep guys B C and D (who run a restaurant, a bar and a housing construction company respectively) in business employing their people who in turn all keep the local bank in business (via loans and savings etc.) and also helps keep the guy at IBM employed because now there's a demand for their brand of consumer product.

obviously this is simplified, but this is basically the idea behind it. There are people in this country who would be perfectly happy to work a good blue collar labor job (manufacturing, construction, etc) if they were available. (hell, even I wouldn't mind one if it paid a real living wage like manufacturing used to)

[ZarakiKujata]

Catching up here.. bear with me.



Not to mention Buchanan's anti-gay rant at the 92 RNC convention.. That kind of thing is hard to forgive. But Rachel I guess turned him a bit around because from what I've heard they're quite good friends. She has a knack for doing that kinda thing.

She actually has said that was her first real exposure to him lol and how much it emotionally effected her cause at the time she didn't realize gaybashing is a political move by the GOP. Now he's her old Uncle Pat.

[Vandalhart]

I don't know anyone from Canada who goes to the hospital or to the doctor and is ecstatic with their care.

Just a note, noone is ecstatic with care at a hospital.. but at least when I leave I don't have to worry about a crazy insane bill that I'll have to sell my house to pay off.

From what I've heard/read about the American Healthcare system it's not the Hospitals that set the prices for anything. It's the HMOs, Insurance Company, and the Prescription Med companies that do... and they're going the way of the Oil Companies gouging everyone they can. That could be my misconception though.

I have no problem with helping other people out if they need it. In fact, I feel it's my responsibility as someone in a position to help out people who are having a harder time than myself. It's exactly what the Obama campaign is saying about their proposed tax increases on the wealthier individuals. If you're okay with that, then you should be okay with this as well.

[Acturus]

I call BS. I work in Healthcare... The government turns down approx. 90% of the insurance claims, and the hospitals are left eating the bill. This is why medications and supplies are at a 400% or more mark up.

This is partially true. The "markup" is also explained by the disparity between medical "cost" and medical "charges". Contracts between insurance companies and hospitals often charge some line items at a severely marked up rate in order to compensate for other areas where other line item costs are ignored. Unfortunately, Joe Public never sees this due to the sensitive nature of contracted agreements, and spin doctoring always has us looking at "charged amounts," instead of what actual hospital stays "cost."

Universal Healthcare, if run like medicare/medicaide, will not cost the American People any more then it already does. Bottom line is all claims are reviewed and if not needed, denied. It will ease complaints, make it easier for the people who actually need it get it, and it will create a little more work force.

This is not true.

I happen to work for the contracting department of a major not-for-profit hospital system in the Southeast US, and I can tell you know, if we get any form of "Universal Healthcare" while still under the rule of the current Medicare system, the entire thing will be like adding vomit to a shit-filled toilet.

Medicare is broken beyond belief, because bottom-line fixators establish the rules, not Healthcare professionals. Anyone familiar with the recent switch from DRGs to MSDRGs (or Hospice and ASC rate methodology changes this past year) knows what I'm talking about.

Obama's plan covers two main categories, children and workforce employees.

For child coverage, this means is that Medicaid will be expanded to cover more kids, but Obama also wants to see that Medicaid supplements (private programs like Healthy Kids and Healthease) will receive government funding and subsidiaries in order to expand their business. However, hospitals will be expected to continue contracting at very low rates in order to accomodate the government's wishes, but trust me when I say that Medicaid contracts are not profitable for any hospital, and hospitals are not required by any law to contract with Medicaid supplements. It's not hard to predict the backlash when parents sign their children up left and right for coverage through a supplement plan (because traditional Medicaid is slow, bulky, and clumsy, hi2u government) only to find that their local hospital won't take their insurance because the hospital recognizes that a there is a breakpoint where a low contracted rate compounded by high volume is no longer able to make the hospital any money to cover costs, much less turn a profit.

For workforce coverage, this means refundable tax credits for businesses who (and I quote) pay a "meaningful share" of the cost of a "quality health plan." Obama wants business to contract with private insurance companies and give them money back on their coverage. That's at least a better option in all this, except that it gives private insurance more power over the healthcare system, and the government is too far removed to do anything about issues between employers, payers, and healthcare providers. It's a classic noninvolvement strategy.

The third category, which is more minor, is this National Health Insuranc Exchange, which is supposed to be able to offer individual plans either through "public" insurance, or "qualified private insurance." Basically, Obama wants the governement to pay to augment the ability for individuals to get healthcare. Anyone in Florida following this Cover Florida nonsense can get an idea of how awful this will be if it's anything like what Crist is trying to do.

Now, don't get me wrong, I like a lot of what Obama has claimed that he wants to do, including help break up monopolizing power of insurance payers in regions with little competition, and invest something like 50 billion dollars towards moving healthcare administrative work into the electronic age, but this "universal healthcare" is a load of horseshit, plain and simple.

It's going to cost us more money to help expand and supplement Medicaid.

It's going to cost us more money to help give tax breaks to small businesses (via regulation and oversight).

And it's going to cost us more money to help insure individuals through either the public plan, or via supplements to private insurance for coverage.

Any way you look at it, the American people will pay higher taxes in order for this to work, and even then (based on the government's track record), it's not going to work so well.

(and no, I'm not in favor of McCain's plan either. I think both candidates are ignorant to the actual issues with American healthcare issues, and neither is tackling them in appropriate ways)

[Dantrag]

Honestly there just needs to be a lot of healthcare reform. Most of the insurance companies at the moment suck ass(private). And then government programs like medicare/cade suck too. This is all coming from a retail pharmacy perspective. Vista is the god damn worst insurance company on the face of the planet. There needs to be a lot of reform, but to be honest i don't have the slightest clue what would be the best way to do it.

[Dimmauk]

So back on the debate: Does anyone here honestly think McCain did better in the debate?

I, at least, will respect anyone who comes out and says he did.

I think McCain started out kinda slow, like he was nervous. He was better later. I think the format helped him more than it helped Obama.
I do think it was funny how McCain has this idea for spending 300 billion on buying bad mortgages, but there is no way he can pay for it. That was his "Game Changer" and he didnt even explain it.

[ZarakiKujata]

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/2329/equal2tv0.jpg

man conservatives sure are funny.

[Not Kuno]

Wow that's so funny. A+++++

[Charismatic]

Worst use of the meme I have ever seen.

How hard is it to understand IMAGE = IMAGE, it's not IMAGE = TEXT

[0ni0n]

Worst use of the meme I have ever seen.

How hard is it to understand IMAGE = IMAGE, it's not IMAGE = TEXT

It's from the conservatives, I honestly don't expect much. But if they don't even get the meme, let alone complex issues like healthcare or social security. By the way, it was excruciating to listen to McCain talk about technology and alternative energy. I wish once Brakaw would ask McCain, "So John, are you a pc user or mac user?" to which McCain would probably respond, "Wut? oh yea, I shot one the other day in the backwoods of Nam."

[ZarakiKujata]

It's from the conservatives, I honestly don't expect much. But if they don't even get the meme, let alone complex issues like healthcare or social security. By the way, it was excruciating to listen to McCain talk about technology and alternative energy. I wish once Brakaw would ask McCain, "So John, are you a pc user or mac user?" to which McCain would probably respond, "Wut? oh yea, I shot one the other day in the backwoods of Nam."

Brokaw would never do that since its already been used against McCain in the primary and by Obama post convention, and McCain mentioned this august that he has started to learn to use the computer, he can visit 'the google' and read his daughter's blog. Also, Brokaw tends to lean to the right in terms of the questions he asks so in interviews so I doubt he wouldve brought something that can be construed as an attack against McCain in a town hall.

[Charismatic]

You should be able to tell from my posts in this thread I'm no fan of McCain/Palin, but I've seen some of those images that were obviously done by conservatives that didn't fucking tank.

A couple of them were actually funny.
I wouldn't go as far as to say I don't expect much from them just because they have different political views. I understand that you're trying to rile them up and all and I don't have anything against that, but I just don't think you can use the conservative thing against the guy in this case.

It's probably just some butthurt moron posting in response to another one he saw.

[0ni0n]

You should be able to tell from my posts in this thread I'm no fan of McCain/Palin, but I've seen some of those images that were obviously done by conservatives that didn't fucking tank.

A couple of them were actually funny.
I wouldn't go as far as to say I don't expect much from them just because they have different political views. I understand that you're trying to rile them up and all and I don't have anything against that, but I just don't think you can use the conservative thing against the guy in this case.

It's probably just some butthurt moron posting in response to another one he saw.

I am not using the meme against McCain because that would be baseless and too far fetch. What I have a problem with is that McCain neither uses a computer nor checks his email. That's as close as to illiterate as you can get in this day and age. If I were in that townhall last night, I would ask him, "Senator McCain, so how do you expect to govern a world that you don't live in?"

[Dimmauk]

The excuse for McCain not using a computer is that he is unable to type or use a mouse due to his war injuries. I think that is bullshit since Stephen Hawking can use a computer.

[Maxxthepenguin]

McCain use a computer comfortably for short periods of time.

[Tristam]

good stuff

Thanks for that, for a long time I've been wondering and staying out of the discussion cuz' I had no idea how Obama's health plan would be any different from expanding Medicare/Medicaid. Or even if it was remotely feasible or just politician talk.

[Dimmauk]

I thought its was funny how McCain kept saying "we need a steady hand at the till".
When has McCain been steady this past month?