Sarah Palin, Republican Vice Presidential Candidate

[Acturus]

Found this while referencing links on Factcheck.org...

http://www.hsinetwork.com/

This company is a third-party organization that did ~15 page write ups on both candidates' health plans.

Link to the write up on Obama's

Link to the write up on McCain's

Interesting reads, both.

[archibaldcrane]

My brother feels very left out of this campaign. He thinks McCain is a nutjob but hates that Obama is pro-capital punishment (with reforms) and anti-concealed carry.

I'm trying to get him to vote Obama anyway, but it's hard since, well, I disagree with Obama on those two things also.

[aurik]

why are you anti concealed carry?

[Day]

Think he meant he was pro-CC?

[Maxxthepenguin]

My brother feels very left out of this campaign. He thinks McCain is a nutjob but hates that Obama is pro-capital punishment (with reforms) and anti-concealed carry.

I'm trying to get him to vote Obama anyway, but it's hard since, well, I disagree with Obama on those two things also.

Wait, pro-gun but anti-capital punishment?

Interesting.

Anyways, remind him that though Obama has an opinion on gun laws that differs from his, it is not on his agenda to mess with gun laws. He will not be the reason guns get taken away. His main point of contention is that some of these loopholes (gun show, etc) can let too many guns pour into bad hands. Capital punishment is a state level thing; the president has no real say in the matter and he isn't going to change that.

[Dimmauk]

I still dont understand how people dont know about these candidates. They both have websites. Its almost like people are too lazy to fucking do their homework.

[Suited Aces]

Anyways, remind him that though Obama has an opinion on gun laws that differs from his, it is not on his agenda to mess with gun laws.

He wants to permanently reinstate Clinton's AWB, which Biden had a large part of writing, and he supports a national ban on concealed carry. How is that not messing with gun laws?

[Charismatic]

I still dont understand how people dont know about these candidates. They both have websites. Its almost like people are too lazy to fucking do their homework.

Almost?

[Maxxthepenguin]

He wants to permanently reinstate Clinton's AWB, which Biden had a large part of writing, and he supports a national ban on concealed carry. How is that not messing with gun laws?

Links? Because that mostly seems like the usual bullshit that politicians say to get elected but don't particularly care about.

[quannum]

Links? Because that mostly seems like the usual bullshit that politicians say to get elected but don't particularly care about.

http://www.democrats.org/a/party/platform.html

page 50 (by the scribd count, page 48 by the actual page numbers in document)

[0ni0n]

I still dont understand how people dont know about these candidates. They both have websites. Its almost like people are too lazy to fucking do their homework.

That's why i hate those who are still "independents" after the third presidential debate. If they are still undecided, chances are they will never be freaking ready. It's a shame that the country's future rests on those who can't make an informed decision.

[Plow]

I don't trust either of them to fulfill 100% of their economic plans for the first year of their presidency; in fact I'm rather counting on it should either fill the office of President.

But I trust McCain's long-term ability to manage the economy of our nation far, far less.

It's not always about campaign promises.

Honestly that's what's best about this election.

With a fully democratic congress, if Obama wins he'll be able to get shit done quick, and make probably the quickest economic turnaround in the history of the U.S.

If McCain wins it'll be harder for him to get shit to happen, meaning he won't be able to fuck it up too much worse before 2012, at which point even Joe the Plumber will know his life sucks ass incredibly hard compared to when the economic policies were moving much more liberal.

[Suited Aces]

Links?

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...ets_obama.html

Spoiler: show

NRA Claim: "Pass Federal Laws Eliminating Your Right-to-Carry"

True: In 2004, while running for the Democratic nomination for the Senate seat he now holds, Obama indeed called for "national legislation" to prevent anyone but law enforcers from carrying concealed firearms. The Chicago Tribune, which queried the candidates on several issues, reported:

Chicago Tribune (Feb. 20 2004): Obama ... backed federal legislation that would ban citizens from carrying weapons, except for law enforcement. He cited Texas as an example of a place where a law allowing people to carry weapons has "malfunctioned" because hundreds of people granted licenses had prior convictions.

"National legislation will prevent other states' flawed concealed-weapons laws from threatening the safety of Illinois residents," Obama said.

More recently, Obama was quoted by the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review in an article on April 2, 2008, saying "I am not in favor of concealed weapons. ... I think that creates a potential atmosphere where more innocent people could (get shot during) altercations."

NRA Claim: "Expand the Clinton Semi-Auto Weapons Ban to Include Millions More Firearms"

Partly true: The NRA refers here to the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, which was put in place during former President Bill Clinton's administration. Title XI of the legislation spoke directly to regulations on assault weapons. The law outlawed the semi-automatic versions of 19 kinds of military-style assault weapons, but it expired in 2004. The "assault weapon ban" was always a misnomer, however. Fully automatic weapons – like the military assault rifle carried on battlefields – had always been illegal to own without a very hard-to-obtain federal license, under legislation going back to the days of Al Capone. They remain so today.

Nevertheless, Obama called the ban a "common sense gun law" and favors bringing it back on a permanent basis. Obama's "Urban Policy" fact sheet says he "supports making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent, as such weapons belong on foreign battlefields and not on our streets."

As recently as Aug. 28, when accepting his party's nomination at the Democratic National Convention, Obama said, "The reality of gun ownership may be different for hunters in rural Ohio than for those plagued by gang-violence in Cleveland, but don't tell me we can't uphold the Second Amendment while keeping AK-47s out of the hands of criminals."

Obama's policy statement doesn't mention any expansion of the expired ban, however. We're not sure where the NRA gets its claim that "millions" of additional weapons would be covered.

Anyone that knows anything about firearms knows the "assault weapon" ban is ridiculous. The definitions are too generic.

And taking firearms away from citizens in places like Chicago and Washington D.C has worked wonders for the crime rate.

[0ni0n]

Sidetrack, the financial crisis just got more real for the taxpayers,

AIG's Liddy Says $122.8 Billion U.S. Loan `May Not Be Enough'
By Hugh Son
Oct. 23 (Bloomberg) -- American International Group Inc., the insurer bailed out by the U.S., may need to borrow more than the $122.8 billion already offered by the government if capital markets don't improve, said Chief Executive Officer Edward Liddy.


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...Kyw&refer=home

[Plow]

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...ets_obama.html

Spoiler: show

NRA Claim: "Pass Federal Laws Eliminating Your Right-to-Carry"

True: In 2004, while running for the Democratic nomination for the Senate seat he now holds, Obama indeed called for "national legislation" to prevent anyone but law enforcers from carrying concealed firearms. The Chicago Tribune, which queried the candidates on several issues, reported:

Chicago Tribune (Feb. 20 2004): Obama ... backed federal legislation that would ban citizens from carrying weapons, except for law enforcement. He cited Texas as an example of a place where a law allowing people to carry weapons has "malfunctioned" because hundreds of people granted licenses had prior convictions.

"National legislation will prevent other states' flawed concealed-weapons laws from threatening the safety of Illinois residents," Obama said.

More recently, Obama was quoted by the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review in an article on April 2, 2008, saying "I am not in favor of concealed weapons. ... I think that creates a potential atmosphere where more innocent people could (get shot during) altercations."

NRA Claim: "Expand the Clinton Semi-Auto Weapons Ban to Include Millions More Firearms"

Partly true: The NRA refers here to the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, which was put in place during former President Bill Clinton's administration. Title XI of the legislation spoke directly to regulations on assault weapons. The law outlawed the semi-automatic versions of 19 kinds of military-style assault weapons, but it expired in 2004. The "assault weapon ban" was always a misnomer, however. Fully automatic weapons – like the military assault rifle carried on battlefields – had always been illegal to own without a very hard-to-obtain federal license, under legislation going back to the days of Al Capone. They remain so today.

Anyone that knows anything about firearms knows the "assault weapon" ban is ridiculous. The definitions are too generic.

And taking firearms away from citizens in places like Chicago and Washington D.C has worked wonders for the crime rate.

Because ak-47's are AWESOME hunting weapons.

[Saphirea]

Now I don't know if he'll try and do this nationally but.

Concealed carry OK for retired police officers

Obama voted for a bill in the Illinois senate that allowed retired law enforcement officers to carry concealed weapons. If there was any issue on which Obama rarely deviated, it was gun control. He was the most strident candidate when it came to enforcin and expanding gun control laws. So this vote jumped out as inconsistent.
When I queried him about the vote, he said, "I didn't find that [vote] surprising. I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry. This was a narrow exception in an exceptional circumstance where a retired police officer might find himself vulnerable as a consequence of the work he has previously done--and had been trained extensively in the proper use of firearms."
It wasn't until a few weeks later that another theory came forward about the uncharacteristic vote. Obama was battling with his GOP opponent to win the endorsement of the Fraternal Order of Police.

http://www.ontheissues.org/domestic/...un_Control.htm

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_Ba...on_gun_control

From the NRA
http://www.nraila.org/OBAMA/

[Saphirea]

No but 7.62mm ammo is used in hunting.

[Rhinox]

Because ak-47's are AWESOME hunting weapons.

Don't fuck with our guns, bill of rights, law abiding citizens etc. etc. etc.

[Maxxthepenguin]

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...ets_obama.html

Spoiler: show

NRA Claim: "Pass Federal Laws Eliminating Your Right-to-Carry"

True: In 2004, while running for the Democratic nomination for the Senate seat he now holds, Obama indeed called for "national legislation" to prevent anyone but law enforcers from carrying concealed firearms. The Chicago Tribune, which queried the candidates on several issues, reported:

Chicago Tribune (Feb. 20 2004): Obama ... backed federal legislation that would ban citizens from carrying weapons, except for law enforcement. He cited Texas as an example of a place where a law allowing people to carry weapons has "malfunctioned" because hundreds of people granted licenses had prior convictions.

"National legislation will prevent other states' flawed concealed-weapons laws from threatening the safety of Illinois residents," Obama said.

More recently, Obama was quoted by the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review in an article on April 2, 2008, saying "I am not in favor of concealed weapons. ... I think that creates a potential atmosphere where more innocent people could (get shot during) altercations."

NRA Claim: "Expand the Clinton Semi-Auto Weapons Ban to Include Millions More Firearms"

Partly true: The NRA refers here to the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, which was put in place during former President Bill Clinton's administration. Title XI of the legislation spoke directly to regulations on assault weapons. The law outlawed the semi-automatic versions of 19 kinds of military-style assault weapons, but it expired in 2004. The "assault weapon ban" was always a misnomer, however. Fully automatic weapons – like the military assault rifle carried on battlefields – had always been illegal to own without a very hard-to-obtain federal license, under legislation going back to the days of Al Capone. They remain so today.

Nevertheless, Obama called the ban a "common sense gun law" and favors bringing it back on a permanent basis. Obama's "Urban Policy" fact sheet says he "supports making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent, as such weapons belong on foreign battlefields and not on our streets."

As recently as Aug. 28, when accepting his party's nomination at the Democratic National Convention, Obama said, "The reality of gun ownership may be different for hunters in rural Ohio than for those plagued by gang-violence in Cleveland, but don't tell me we can't uphold the Second Amendment while keeping AK-47s out of the hands of criminals."

Obama's policy statement doesn't mention any expansion of the expired ban, however. We're not sure where the NRA gets its claim that "millions" of additional weapons would be covered.

Anyone that knows anything about firearms knows the "assault weapon" ban is ridiculous. The definitions are too generic.

And taking firearms away from citizens in places like Chicago and Washington D.C has worked wonders for the crime rate.

Well, first of all, I'm assuming your "anyone that knows anything about firearms" means pro-gun people. I personally think assault weapons (as in large automatic and semiautomatic weaponry, IE assault rifles) are ridiculous to have in civil society, but I also don't know how much of a problem they are. I'm relatively uninformed about this issue though.

Also, iirc, with DC the gun violence levels went significantly down but other crime went up. I didn't study it closely, and I may be remembering it wrong, but whatever.

Anyways, I don't think he would be able to do any significant changes to gun law. He can suggest laws, but he can't get them rolling and can't make them happen. Very few republicans are anti-gun but southern and rural state democrats are somewhat often pro-gun, so very few restrictions can pass on a federal level and those that do are minor.

[Suited Aces]

Well, first of all, I'm assuming your "anyone that knows anything about firearms" means pro-gun people. I personally think assault weapons (as in large automatic and semiautomatic weaponry, IE assault rifles) are ridiculous to have in civil society, but I also don't know how much of a problem they are. I'm relatively uninformed about this issue though.

I didn't mean the "anyone-anything" comment as an insult or demeaning in anyway. Just alot of people that argue about this stuff are ignorant about the terminology.

Automatic weapons are ridiculously expensive and already heavily regulated by the BATF. It's an extremely hard and lengthy process to obtain one.

Semiautomatic firearms encompass probably about 80-90% of all hunting rifles and handguns used today. So adding more regulation to them would affect most gun-owners.


And AKs may not be the best hunting rifle, but they are real fun to shoot. Why should I be completely denied one of my hobbys because of a few bad eggs who obtain them illegally?
I'm ok with making the restrictions more stringent, just don't say I can't have one at all.