Sarah Palin, Republican Vice Presidential Candidate

[Elvis]

From http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/159...902/id_0.jhtml :

A small amount of information on Johnston could be found at his MySpace page, which has since been removed. The Wasilla, Alaska, hockey player's page listed him as being in a relationship, but under his "children" status, Johnston opted for "I don't want kids."

Johnston's page also revealed his likes and dislikes: He's a self-professed "redneck" who likes to snowboard, ride dirt bikes, go camping and "hang out with the boys." He also enjoys fishing, and warned that, if you mess with him, "I'll kick [your] a--."

Sounds like a winner.

[Sera]

i hadn't read that yet, i read 24 yesterday. thank you for the link

[Tyche]

One must assume that someone who truly believes that abstinence only sex education not only works, but is the form of education that should be taught exclusively to children, would in fact not have told her daughter to use contraceptives, simply because staunch advocates of a policy are unusually unwilling to accept the alternative that their policy is ineffective.

So she either advocated a policy that did absolutely nothing to prevent her child from getting pregnant, because the assumption that simply telling kids not to have sex will actually work is ludicrous, or, as you're suggesting, she actually did tell her daughter to use contraceptives and her daughter ignored her advice, in which case Palin is a hypocrite for pushing a public policy that she secretly doesn't feel is effective.

I'm going to push for my kid not to drink, but I'm realistic. I'll tell her to call daddy if she ever ends up drunk. I don't know if my preaching will work, but i'll provide a means to help her if my pushing fails. If it makes me a hypocrite, fine, but I'll be a good parent.

[Elvis]

That wouldn't make you a hypocrite Tyche. You're not advocating a policy.

Since Palin pushes her POV onto others (as any politician would) she is not only encouraging others to follow her belief but she is also trying to make that belief a reality in the 'system.' If she were JUST a parent, then you could say she couldn't reach her kids or that she didn't succeed in getting her message across to them. It's different because she is a politican AND a parent.

[Sera]

I'm going to push for my kid not to drink, but I'm realistic. I'll tell her to call daddy if she ever ends up drunk. I don't know if my preaching will work, but i'll provide a means to help her if my pushing fails. If it makes me a hypocrite, fine, but I'll be a good parent.

same concept. every parent hopes their child will stay abstinent, as you hope your child will abstain from drinking. but as a good parent you also realize that kids will be kids, and offer her the security of knowing you are there for her and she doesnt HAVE to drive home drunk. Just like a parent should realize that their child, for all their hoping, MAY not remain abstinent, and has the education and information to make the responsible choice (not unlike calling daddy instead of driving drunk) if they find themselves in that situation. health and safety trumps morality.

[Xavier]

I'm going to push for my kid not to drink, but I'm realistic. I'll tell her to call daddy if she ever ends up drunk. I don't know if my preaching will work, but i'll provide a means to help her if my pushing fails. If it makes me a hypocrite, fine, but I'll be a good parent.

Okay, except in that instance you aren't advocating an abstinence only alcohol program to be taught to children. You'd advocating a policy in which abstinence is combined with an education in alternative solutions to minimize the problem if it does occur.

Just like teaching Abstinence sex education is fine so long as you combine it with education on contraceptives and ways to prevent the transmission of STDs, acknowledging that you would greatly prefer if children didn't engage in sex, but if they must, ways to be smart about it.

Your position and example are -not- the position of people pushing abstinence only sex education in schools. I don't know if you just don't see it or if you're defending the base.

[Tyche]

I would advocate, as president, that you should tell your children that underage drinking is bad and should be reinforced in the household. BUT IF YOU DO DRINK, then i'll drive your drunk ass home. Being a parent, and ask any parents, you will live hypocrisy. I don't want my kids drinking, and I drank at 16. I don't want my kids smoking, and, well, I don't smoke, but if i did!!! Hypocrisy is part of parenting.

[Kuya]

Just to be sure, because this argument is getting stupid, nobody denies that abstinence only is far more inefficient than a mixed safe sex system, right?

[Tyche]

Sorry if I have a hard time believing that any parent doesn't prepare their child in case they don't follow their own rules and beliefs. Maybe I just have too much faith in someone that has 5 kids.

[Tyche]

Yes kuya, you're right.

[Xavier]

Are you agreeing with everyone?

What you've just said is perfectly fine and makes plenty of sense. It is not, however, the same policy that people like Palin are advocating be taught to children, which is strictly abstinence only education, that completely ignores the practice of teaching safe ways to engage in the activity, if abstinence simply fails to work for you.

[Kuya]

Then what is the point of further argument? Palin's belief in abstinence only is wrong, absolutely, this instance only made it evident that she's wrong and came off as ironic, it's all political. Saying that she's a bad mother is irrelevant, what's relevant is that she's backing a hazardous educational system, and that her daughter's pregnancy merely serves as a reminder, if not an example, that abstinence only is simply wrong.

[Churchill]

Alcohol should be 18 to buy, drinking is by consent of parents, kids at other households under jurisdiction of an adult etc.

DUI charges should be severe like europe.

[Elvis]

Don't conservatives (more than liberals) blame violence and sex on movies and video games?

People are always going to mitigate the blame for something toward outside forces. Sure, it's probably unfair to blame everything on Palin but I don't think people are even doing that.

It's an observation that people are making when they cite the irony of the situation. Yes, most people are hypocrites but since she is a public official there is an emphasis on her hypocrasy.

Sort of like that preacher who turned out to love schlong, right after making that god camp movie where he bashed gays.

[Delekii]

I'm going to push for my kid not to drink, but I'm realistic. I'll tell her to call daddy if she ever ends up drunk. I don't know if my preaching will work, but i'll provide a means to help her if my pushing fails. If it makes me a hypocrite, fine, but I'll be a good parent.

You would only become a hypocrite in the same manner as Palin if you told other parents that they should not pick up their kids if they get drunk, because abstinance from alcohol is the only answer.

Well, the same as the case here, anyway - you would either be a moron and gigantic tool for thinking that abstinence is a working policy for everyone, or you would be a hypocrite for preaching and not practicing.

[Rhinox]

Sorry if I have a hard time believing that any parent doesn't prepare their child in case they don't follow their own rules and beliefs. Maybe I just have too much faith in someone that has 5 kids.

having children alone doesn't qualify you a good parent. So yes you do indeed have to much faith in someone with 5 kids.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Yates

[Tyche]

Take the politicizing and views out of it. Strictly from a parental sense, I have a hard time believing that she didn't prepare (as a parent) her child in case her child engaged in something she disagreed with. This is assuming that Sarah Palin follows her own policies in the home, and not just use that policy as a political soap box to stand out to get the overwhelming conservative vote. Similiar to how McCain told a church full of patrons that a child is a human at the moment of conception. he's pandering, I doubt he really believes that.

[Beckwin]

Alcohol should be 18 to buy, drinking is by consent of parents, kids at other households under jurisdiction of an adult etc.

DUI charges should be severe like europe.

if we do that we'll have long lines at liquor stores and DUI convictions will be more costly and take forever to process because we're America and have too many people.

fucking euro loving hippie trash

[Talint]

Much more importantly, however, it makes me question just what the hell McCain was thinking. I was seriously expecting McCain to nominate Lieberman, who would have generated controversy, but who wouldn't of made me question McCain's executive decision making.

Never would have happened.

McCain would lose the support of a major chunk of his party. Lieberman is already on the bad side of many democrats, and continues to dig his hole. Both men would be completely finished in politics, for a hollow gesture.

The important point to remember here is that, for all the controversy Palin has surrounding her, and the questioning of McCain's leadership, the media is focusing on them; which allows all their talking points mouthpieces to go on and on about McCain. The point isn't to determine who is the better candidate with the better arguments and better issues, the point is to win the election.

edited to add

Diddy says McCain is bugging the fuck out

[Tyche]

My argument isn't that the policy is wrong, it's that she isn't a bad parent for reinforcing in her children and her children doing something other than what was taught in the home. Especially in a child that is a month from being a legal adult...