Sarah Palin, Republican Vice Presidential Candidate

[Kuya]

Handouts is what we've been giving the higher socioeconomic ladder by allowing them to skip on their monetary duties. Also lax regulation where it need not be.

[0ni0n]

tough shit you got dealt a bad hand, work hard make it better, or live with it. don't expect handouts.

Where were you when the treasury handed out the 700 billion + bailout to the banks and wallstreet executives?

It goes both ways. A society without social safety nets is dysfunctional.

[aurik]

It's just absolutely sad some of the things people believe in these recent pages. It's like people who claim to love America most hate all the people in it. It's absolutely disgusting that people can say they don't owe anyone anything. That they are so special for building up their own life, so why can't poor people stop having babies and get a job. Although I suspect a lot of it is just trolling to mask their irrational fears.

Nobody starts from scratch in America. If you save up money, someone provided you a job. You have coworkers who support the company along with you. You buy food for your family from the store where someone stocks it, someone bags it. Even if you grow your own food, you bought seeds, you bought gardening tools, and you use water. Your mailman brings you the mail, your garbage man takes away waste. People maintain your plumbing and electricity day in, and day out.

When you start your own business, you have to deal with people to establish it legally, supply it with goods, set up phone lines, or whatever your shop entails. Then comes the lifeblood: your customers. Without other successful Americans, you have no business. If these people have nothing to spend, you have nothing to gain.

Every single goddamn one of these people, from the guy who scoops your ice cream, to the loan officer that gives your business its start, is a real human being. I think some people here forget that. Everyone you meet on your way up has impacted your life, no matter how minor. Even the "lazy DMV employee" or the "lol poor person at McDonalds."

I think supporting the lower and middle classes is perfectly in line with the American dream we so often trumpet. You work your way up through the system, then you send down a rope ladder for others. A nation doesn't succeed if a few lucky citizens at the top are kicking other people in the face struggling to get there as well.

It's also the reason health care should be a right. Anyone can get sick at any time. If your father struggles from scratch, but becomes ill under a company that doesn't afford him health care, well, he's screwed. One simple twist of fate could change an American success story into an American tragedy. I think people too easily adopt the "Well, I'm healthy, why aren't you?" attitude.

It's amazing how America's been sliding into the shitter into recent years, yet people still piss themselves in rage over new concepts. Socialism is treated like saying it three times invokes the devil. Any tax change is "spreading the wealth" and the Marx (i.e. EVIL) brand is forcibly singed into your mind. People are living in vacuums mentally, and we need to get out of that mentality. It amazes me when people think that Europe is some Socialist hellhole. Well, guess where the world economy is going?

One of my clients is the liaison to foreign subsidiaries for his company. He laments they can barely turn a profit in America anymore because of exchange rates. 93 yen to the dollar. Average used to be 120+. So when they see good profits in America, it means jack once they transfer it back. Not to mention, businesses can't get the loans they need to purchase from Japan in the first place. The Euro is pretty much on the fast track to becoming the international currency for business. But people still stubbornly insist, "No! America is awesome because [fact/number that has no relevance but sounds big]."

America was founded on everyone getting equal opportunity to succeed. Right now a storm's hit our boat and we've fallen off. The captain, being the strongest swimmer, will get back on first, but he isn't worth shit without the navigator or the engineer. Will he not throw out a life jacket because his arms hurt? A country that gorges itself on pride as much as ours is just bafflingly resentful of its own citizens. I would think a society that is so up its own ass, which is so up Jesus' ass could find some pride in following the teachings from Matthew:

"‘For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ “Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? ‘And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? ‘When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ “The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’ "

Stop trolling jeez.

[Remyo]

Where were you when the treasury handed out the 700 billion + bailout to the banks and wallstreet executives?

It goes both ways. A society without social safety nets is dysfunctional.

bailout was socialism, who said I was for it?

[Kwijiboe]

I'm confused, what position do you think Elmer is taking?

It's funny, I keep seeing people come in here to have a discussion-- some even being Obama supporters-- and they get told to screw off by the people on this board, even when they seem to have the same (or similar) views or support for a particular candidate.

[Remyo]

I'm confused, what side do you think Elmer is on?

aurik was being sarcastic

[Kuya]

How is buying toxic assets socialism? Unless we suddenly forgot that socialism meant worker ownership of the means of production, and that what you're referring to, that is government at the service of the private sector is more like fascism, except that in fascism even corporations work for the government, while in this case, one could say that it works the other way around. Maybe it's a pseudo oligarchy.

[Kwijiboe]

Ah jeez.

[0ni0n]

bailout was socialism, who said I was for it?

So you oppose anything socialistic? no homeless shelters, no healthcare, no free k-12 education, etc.

[Correction]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9T0FI2axbU

yep, good ol' fashioned working class middle america doing what it does best!

[Plow]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9T0FI2axbU

yep, good ol' fashioned working class middle america doing what it does best!

Holy shit @ "the government becoming kind of like the other half of our family, trying to make decisions for us."

[archibaldcrane]

You didn't post anything that says the rich have gotten richer, and even if they are, they are paying a larger share than ever.

Sorry, I didn't quote the other half, which is necessary for my claim:

The growth in total incomes was concentrated among those making more than $1 million. The number of such taxpayers grew by more than 26 percent, to 303,817 in 2005, from 239,685 in 2000. These individuals, who constitute less than a quarter of 1 percent of all taxpayers, reaped almost 47 percent of the total income gains in 2005, compared with 2000.

People with incomes of more than a million dollars also received 62 percent of the savings from the reduced tax rates on long-term capital gains and dividends that President Bush signed into law in 2003, according to a separate analysis by Citizens for Tax Justice, a group that points out policies that it says favor the rich.

The group’s calculations showed that 28 percent of the investment tax cut savings went to just 11,433 of the 134 million taxpayers, those who made $10 million or more, saving them almost $1.9 million each. Over all, this small number of wealthy Americans saved $21.7 billion in taxes on their investment income as a result of the tax-cut law."

Remy0 - please read this passage carefully. Rich are getting richer, income gap is increasing. The very rich are reaping -all- the benefits of the rising economy, average americans are getting slightly poorer. Rich aren't creating better opportunities for working class people, they are just making more profits.

Do you understand that your worldview is just incorrect? The wealth doesn't trickle down. It just doesn't.

[geno]

Play Monopoly. Wait until some of the kids start to amass a nice pile of money. As they collect rent, take 36% and distribute it to the kids that aren’t doing as well.

Nobody would lose and everyone would prosper? Wow, go figure.

Seriously, I was wondering why no one else picked up on how hilariously bad that analogy is for him, on nearly every imaginable level. The game is based around capitalism gone awry as you attempt to build a monopoly, putting an end to competition, and as a result, the game as a whole. As you play, its evident that being smart (working hard?) isn't going to win you the game; you need to get lucky with the dice too. In fact, thats tremendously more important; you can win the game even with a shitty strategy. You can't win the game if you land on Go To Jail on every occasion. Edit: Here's an even funnier one: You'll find it a lot easier to win if you keeping getting the $100 inheritance community chest card than if you got the $25 services rendered card.

Near the end of the game, one person has most of the money while the rest hope for a lucky roll of the dice to keep them alive for one more turn. In the meanwhile, there are growing social rifts between the winner and the losers (seriously, what a fucking divisive game. Who actually plays monopoly for a couple hours and doesn't come out of it with a new found hatred for their friends, lol). The game finally ends with one person with all the money, but no one to play with to collect more. The whole game is a struggle to "win" and put everyone else out of business as fast as possible. In fact, one of the only things delaying this inevitable outcome is the $200 handout every time you pass go (not to mention the income tax that can slow you down when your luck in avoiding it wears out). The game runs smoothly and is fun when everyone's got money and there is some competition. As the income inequality rift grows farther and farther apart, the only possible conclusion is for the game to end. And everyone loses when they realize how much of their time they just wasted.

[Remyo]

Sorry, I didn't quote the other half, which is necessary for my claim:

Remy0 - please read this passage carefully. Rich are getting richer, income gap is increasing. The very rich are reaping -all- the benefits of the rising economy, average americans are getting slightly poorer. Rich aren't creating better opportunities for working class people, they are just making more profits.

Do you understand that your worldview is just incorrect? The wealth doesn't trickle down. It just doesn't.

so the rich don't deserve free money, but other people deserve free money?

[Beckwin]

my parents supported a family of 5 on 30k, we grew our own meals, used one car or 2 older cars, lived in a fixer upper, etc.

yeah and look, you turned out fucking retarded. you needed better schooling, which requires tax money.

[Creeps]

so the rich don't deserve free money, but other people deserve free money?

Doesn't have to be actual currency, you fuckface. Most people would say food/health care/education.

[Remyo]

yeah and look, you turned out fucking retarded. you needed better schooling, which requires tax money.

we'll see

[kuronosan]

so the rich don't deserve free money, but other people deserve free money?

This is where I stand: The rich deserve every penny they earn because they did earn it (for the most part) through hard work. There are also rich people who earned it by trampling on the not so rich and taking advantage of them.

Regardless, it is their responsibility to pay back the system that they either exploited or worked for in order to ensure it continues to work. There's a huge problem if rich people are actually seeing large gains with tax breaks designed to help the poorer population (you know, about 98% of America).

You're damn right the poorer people deserve free money. America is a land of opportunity, but what fucking opportunity does a broke motherfucker in a shitty neighborhood have to better himself? If 1% makes it out alive it's okay? I don't think people should be handed thousands of dollars in reparation because there are people out there who would misuse it anyway... but every single person in the middle and lower classes could seriously use the help.

Who gives a fuck if the rich earned it? Do I really give a shit if they can't fly to Chicago on their personal jet and have to take a public airline? No. Do I give a shit if they have to drink 3-year old wine instead of 30-year old vintage? No. Do I give a flying fuck if they can't listen to their diamond-encrusted MP3 player and have to listen using the same fucking thing without all the 'bling' on it? No. And you know what? Neither does the majority of America.

yeah and look, you turned out fucking retarded. you needed better schooling, which requires tax money.

Beckwin for the fucking win.

[Remyo]

Doesn't have to be actual currency, you fuckface. Most people would say food/health care/education.

well why would the rich have to pay for it and the poor get it for free?

[kuronosan]

well why would the rich have to pay for it and the poor get it for free?

Because they're rich and can afford it. It's the same reason the poor have to take a taxi while the rich ride by on an oversized stretch-hummer.