Sarah Palin, Republican Vice Presidential Candidate

[Elvis]

Then how should we judge any politician? How can we not take them at their words?

I mean, I agree that most politicians are full of shit but then where do we draw the line?

Look, I don't think anyone is bashing her parenting skills. Kids can only be taught so much. Lots of other factors should be considered too and ultimately it comes down to their own free will.

The point is, as a politician she pushes her POV on people moreso than any regular person would.

[Xavier]

I'm not willing to go on faith and put someone in the #2 slot to the most powerful job in the world based on the assumption that they're actually hypocrites.

And I'm not attacking her on a personal level as a parent but as a politician who supports a policy that is fundamentally flawed. Whether or not she actually doesn't practice at home what she preaches at work is none of my concern, all I feel justified taking issue with is her conduct at work. The only reason her home life is mentioned is to highlight the irony that her 17 year old daughter is pregnant who presumably was educated in school by the policies that Palin herself advocated at work.

[Beckwin]

Take the politicizing and views out of it. Strictly from a parental sense, I have a hard time believing that she didn't prepare (as a parent) her child in case her child engaged in something she disagreed with. This is assuming that Sarah Palin follows her own policies in the home, and not just use that policy as a political soap box to stand out to get the overwhelming conservative vote. Similiar to how McCain told a church full of patrons that a child is a human at the moment of conception. he's pandering, I doubt he really believes that.

I'd hope that someone with 5 kids would be responsible about educating their teenagers about safe sex, but I think you're giving too much benefit of the doubt to a fundamentalist. Personally I haven't been saying she's a bad parent, but as much as you'd like to (to save face?) take politics out of this, you can't- so like Xavier said, she's either an idiot for pushing a policy that doesn't work or a hypocrite for pushing a policy that she secretly doesn't believe in.

[Kuya]

Take the politicizing and views out of it. Strictly from a parental sense, I have a hard time believing that she didn't prepare (as a parent) her child in case her child engaged in something she disagreed with. This is assuming that Sarah Palin follows her own policies in the home, and not just use that policy as a political soap box to stand out to get the overwhelming conservative vote. Similiar to how McCain told a church full of patrons that a child is a human at the moment of conception. he's pandering, I doubt he really believes that.

You're not discussing whether abstinence only is wrong or right or practical, you're just trying to defend Palin against accusations that she's a bad mother. You've made a mistake to drag the argument this far aside from reprimanding those talking trash for purely partisan reasons once, and now you're going to be characterized as someone who supports abstinence only because your ideas are coming off as disorganized and they're melding into eachother.

[Tyche]

I've largely agreed with everyone on her politics, it's the parenting I have a problem with. I'm not trying to save face, i've remained consistant the whole time. And if you're complaining about putting someone in office who's been hypocritical, then don't vote for anyone.

And I have 5 different people arguing 5 different points. Sorry for the disorganization.. I'm out on a boat alone here with shots being fired from 5 different sides.

[Beckwin]

hypocrisy isn't a binary thing. most people are hypocritical in some small ways at least, but Palin is chalking up some high readings on a few things.

[Sera]

look, whatever she does to her kids or teaches them on her own time, i dont care. if she wants to OPT them out of sex ed, fine, i dont care.

but to support and impose what is proven (forgetting bristol entirely, and focusing only on statistical data) to be irresponsible educational policy... i dont want this. and the pandering thing scares me to be honest, here he is, priding himself on straight talk and being a maverick of sorts, calling her the same, and yet they're still pandering to extremists for votes by discussing how to strip away all my choices and rights? no thanks.

[Tyche]

hypocrisy isn't a binary thing. most people are hypocritical in some small ways at least, but Palin is chalking up some high readings on a few things.

I agree with this, as I've stated. Regarding sex ed though, That's not really high on my political agenda.

[pohibaba]

I think that abstinence only teaching can work for the right families and even for the right communities, that's why I think having some sort of national policy on what should be taught is moronic. Do you know what I find funny? The people in this thread who are making Governor Palin out to be a horrible person because she's pushing her ideas on their kids, yet are advocating that safe sex should be taught in schools. What if I don't want my kids to think that sex is an appropriate activity for my kid? I guess that doesn't matter because you know what's best for my kids, right?

[Elvis]

Anyone see this yet?

http://levijohnston.com/Blog/

has to be fake lol

[Sera]

I I guess that doesn't matter because you know what's best for my kids, right?

that simply isnt the case, not at all! My opinon aside, YOU have and have always had the option to opt them out of said classes if you choose to. YOU are their parent, YOU have that right. Hell, I grew up in bible thumping VA and we even had the opt out option, and I knew a couple kids whose parents DID opt them out. Its easy enough, you simply sign a form stating your preference when you register them for school, and if you want to change it, you go to school and change it! No one is trapping YOU into anything, the choice is there, you can simply take it or leave it. They are talking about removing choices altogether, which i think is unfair.

[Kuya]

I think what they meant to say was, teaching them something that does more harm than good, and is proven to do so.

[Tyche]

I missed this, so I feel obliged to touch on it...

having children alone doesn't qualify you a good parent. So yes you do indeed have to much faith in someone with 5 kids.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Yates

1st, justifying points by using the most extreme circumstances is a poor way to solidify an argument.

2nd, 5 kids shows she has a lot of experience with parenting. More experiences means you've gone through more ordeals and you know how to properly adjust to a lot of situations you aren't prepared for when you have your first child. I know I'm not going to raise my first a good as a child can be raised, but I'll learn from the mistakes and be able to teach my other children much better when something presents itself.

[Beckwin]

If you're an insane fundie abstinence-only creationism>evolution person, then frankly yes I do know what's better for your kids.

Teaching kids safe sex is an important life skill regardless of personal convictions. Sex ed never, ever says "it's ok and encouraged to go get your fuck on because you can use condoms" so don't try that strawman bullshit. You do know that sex ed always points out that abstinence is the only 100% safe policy on sex, and it also informs young women what they need to do if they get raped, not to take open/mixed drinks from strangers, etc? I remember it stressing to males that "no means no" and it also serves to explain the biological changes that kids are/will be going through.

[Sera]

bleh, other than health risks, it shouldnt matter, and while i feel sorry for those kids who aren't educated on how to stay healthy should they choose to engage in these activities, its not my business to tell palin how to raise her kid. she wants to endanger the kid's health, whatever, her problem. im just saying she shouldnt be permitted to do that to everyone. but the very idea that one person acts like they know whats better for your kids... im against that. i dont have to agree, but what you do or dont do to your own kids isnt my deal, just dont do it to mine

edit: that site won't even load for me

[Xno Kappa]

Anyone see this yet?

http://levijohnston.com/Blog/

has to be fake lol

lol

[Kuya]

I'm hearing that Palin has connections to the Joel's Army org, any truth to this?

[Demosthenes11]

I'm reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaly late to this thread (been out of town since thursday), but just to get a few points out of the way for the skimming I did do

1) My first impressions of the gal? Well-spoken, not a white-male boring me to death, etc. I like the pick as a response to lolBiden (worst pick ever). Biden is known as a bully in debates and apparently Palin doesn't take shit from bullies in a debate and will rip him a new asshole.

2) Very transparent pick. Or at least seemingly transparent. I'm very reluctant to give the benefit of the doubt here, as it's really suspicious to give the bid to her, as a fairly-inexperienced woman. Though I did love her comment that she has more governing experience than McCain, Obama, and Biden combined.

3) Who cares about her daughter? I don't see where the hypocrisy is here. Ironic to me that democrats roar and say Obamas [i]wife[/] is off limits, yet the daughter of the vice president isn't? lulz. As a parent, if your kid goes and shoplifts, are you a bad parent? It's not the actions of the child that dictate parenting, it's the consequences. If my gf got pregnant, it's got nothing to do with my mother, who has taught me my whole life that sex at a young age is wrong. It's my actions, got nothing to do with my mother.

4) lulz @ thinking Lieberman would be the pick. You really think core conservatives would vote a ticket with both mccain and lieberman? You're an idiot if you think that should have been the choice. Guess what, the only thing lieberman agrees with republicans on is the war.

5) Mr Beckwin - why is it the presidential race is close if Obama can fill 14 football stadiums with the blink of an eye and mccain is just a boring old fart and his protesters outnumber his supporters!?

6) I didn't see any of the DNC since I have no TV right now, are there youtube links with speeches or anything? I still need to figure out who I'm going to vote for if anyone at all

[pohibaba]

I still need to figure out who I'm going to vote for if anyone at all

Bobbarr2008.com

[Demosthenes11]

you know, I really thought about Barr but I just don't like him at all. Pretty much the worst libertarian candidate they could have put forth