Sarah Palin, Republican Vice Presidential Candidate

[Kuya]

Right, and I said my definition of socialism is when a govt. does it.

I wasn't criticizing that, i was criticizing this:

Where in that quote is Smith talking about redistribution of wealth?

Taxes are a redistribution of wealth, Adam is talking about taxes therefore he is talking about a redistribution of wealth. Redistribution of wealth via the government is a commonly socialist mechanism, which is sort of what you're saying except that it's more accurate to say that it is a socialist mechanism than to say it is socialism, because that implies that the fact that a government imposes taxes makes it socialist, which you don't agree with but that's what you're inadvertently saying.

Also, no one said that supporting taxes made him a socialist, they made sarcastic remarks about it at the expense of certain ignorant people, and Beckwin never said what his intention was. You assumed they were saying that it made him socialist.

[archibaldcrane]

The wealthiest 1 percent of the population earn 19 per­cent of the income but pay 37 percent of the income tax. The top 10 percent pay 68 percent of the tab. Meanwhile, the bottom 50 percent—those below the median income level—now earn 13 percent of the income but pay just 3 percent of the taxes. this doesn't include the sales tax, payrol tax etc. the rich pay. How much more do you democrats feel they should pay to make it fair?

Well, even in these conditions the deck is still stacked enough that the very rich are the only people on average benefiting from the rising economy.

The average person's income has dropped while the economy has risen. The average million+$ income person's income has risen in the same time, despite the additional tax burden.

How far does the average person's real income have to drop, even while the economy is rising, for them to get some tax relief?

[Elvis]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fieGfc6DL7k

[0ni0n]

It does matter if the government is doing it, otherwise it doesn't fit the conservative definition. That's what distinguishes it. And taxes don't in and of themselves meet that definition.

Progressive taxation is as far as it's gonna get, and I bet we will never see the day where the rich hand out money to the poor in a booth. The fact that the rich are taxed more but the poor benefit more from the bulk of all the existing social services is a definitive mechanism of wealth redistribution, regardless whether it fits your definition or not.

so they should pay all the income tax?

Oh please, financial inadequacy of the poor in this country has been largely remedied by heavy taxation on the middle class. The rich, top 1-5%, have been relatively living in the absence of any punishing tax policy. Income tax bracket cap at 35% means that anyone who makes more than $350,000 pays the same percentage of taxes. Personal income of $350,000, $5,000,000, $20,000,000, are all subjected to a 35% tax rate. The rich who's making that 5 or 20 million is no doubt better off than the upper middle class guy who's making 350,000 as far as taxation is concerned.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Pretty sure when people say socialism they distinguish between just giving money to the govt. to build roads and giving money to the govt. in order to give it to someone else. Seems like what ya'll are saying is just semantics.

[Dimmauk]

I give my money to the Government so they can give it to Halliburton.

[0ni0n]

Pretty sure when people say socialism they distinguish between just giving money to the govt. to build roads and giving money to the govt. in order to give it to someone else. Seems like what ya'll are saying is just semantics.

No, it's not semantics, you just refuse to see the difference. Medicaid, a government sponsored healthcare program for eligible individuals and families with low incomes and resources. Without going into too much details, it's a federal entitlement program that pays some poor's medical bills when they can't afford to pay. If that's not explicit wealth redistribution or wealth transfer, then you're in denial.

[Day]

Drowning in denial!!

Get it?? HAR HAR

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

No, it's not semantics, you just refuse to see the difference. Medicaid, a government sponsored healthcare program for eligible individuals and families with low incomes and resources. Without going into too much details, it's a federal entitlement program that pays some poor's medical bills when they can't afford to pay. If that's not explicit wealth redistribution or wealth transfer, then you're in denial.

That's exactly what I said socialism is.

[Day]

How else would it be socialism if the govt doesn't do it. Maybe I don't follow?

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

How else would it be socialism if the govt doesn't do it. Maybe I don't follow?

That's what I've said, it wouldn't be.

[0ni0n]

That's exactly what I said socialism is.

And it's all around you, in the form of taxes, charities, etc. You cannot escape redistribution of wealth since man is by nature a social animal, bound by the moral obligations to provide for those who are less fortunate.

You need to realize that pure capitalism is impractical and socialism is a necessary component of a functional society. GOP's argument against Obama's plan on the basis that it's socialistic is a political tactic aimed to distract people like yourself from the key issues including economy, healthcare, education, foreign policy, etc.

[kuronosan]

I'm surprised more people don't realize that.

[Dimmauk]

Anyone watch the Daily show last night? They talked about McCain's "Finger quotes" thing he does all the time.

[Beckwin]

On top of swampy's lack of perspective, the McCain campaign is an absolute joke about this whole damn socialism issue. In 2000 McCain now famously said he believes the wealthy have a duty to give a little more in the form of taxes, and Palin created a windfall tax on oil companies in Alaska to SPREAD THE WEALTH in the form of a $1200 check to every Alaskan. Also, the McCain campaign is now pushing for bailout money to be used to in effect be able to give someone a 300k home for 100k by buying the bad mortgage and renegotiating it with the buyer, essentially having the government eat 200k and giving that to the homeowner.

someone needs to call them on this.

[Remyo]

Well, even in these conditions the deck is still stacked enough that the very rich are the only people on average benefiting from the rising economy.

The average person's income has dropped while the economy has risen. The average million+$ income person's income has risen in the same time, despite the additional tax burden.

How far does the average person's real income have to drop, even while the economy is rising, for them to get some tax relief?

I examined the Treasury Department analysis of how much the rich would have paid without the Bush tax cuts and how much they actually did pay. The rich are now paying more than they would have paid, not less, after the Bush investment tax cuts. For example, the Treasury’s estimate was that the top 1 percent of earners would pay 31 percent of taxes if the Bush cuts did not go into effect; with the cuts, they actually paid 37 per­cent. Similarly, the share of the top 10 percent of earners was estimated at 63 percent without the cuts; they actually paid 68 percent.

In the early 1960s, the highest marginal income tax rate was a stunning 91 percent. That top rate fell to 70 percent after the Kennedy-Johnson tax cuts and remained there until 1981. Then Ronald Reagan slashed it to 50 percent and ultimately to 28 percent after the 1986 Tax Reform Act. Although the federal tax rate fell by more than half, total tax receipts in the 1980s doubled from $517 billion in 1981 to $1,030 billion in 1990. The top tax rate rose slightly under George H. W. Bush and then moved to 39.6 percent under Bill Clinton. But under George W. Bush it fell again to 35 percent. So what’s striking is that, even as tax rates have fallen by half over the past quarter-century, taxes paid by the wealthy have increased. Lower tax rates have made the tax system more progressive, not less so. In 1980, for example, the top 5 percent of income earners paid only 37 percent of all income taxes. Today, the top 1 percent pay that proportion, and the top 5 percent pay a whopping 57 percent.

[Beckwin]

ITT remyo lacks class consciousness.

you're crying for the people filing from their yachts. the people who have more freedoms and power and influence. the people who have more property protected by the US gov't (essentially getting a much higher return value for being a US citizen/resident).

[Correction]

It's time for republicans to shut the fuck up about Socialism

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/commen...printable=true

During the 2000 campaign, on MSNBC’s “Hardball,” a young woman asked him why her father, a doctor, should be “penalized” by being “in a huge tax bracket.” McCain replied that “wealthy people can afford more” and that “the very wealthy, because they can afford tax lawyers and all kinds of loopholes, really don’t pay nearly as much as you think they do.” The exchange continued:


YOUNG WOMAN: Are we getting closer and closer to, like, socialism and stuff?. . .
MCCAIN: Here’s what I really believe: That when you reach a certain level of comfort, there’s nothing wrong with paying somewhat more.

Sarah Palin, who has lately taken to calling Obama “Barack the Wealth Spreader,” seems to be something of a suspect character herself. She is, at the very least, a fellow-traveller of what might be called socialism with an Alaskan face. The state that she governs has no income or sales tax. Instead, it imposes huge levies on the oil companies that lease its oil fields. The proceeds finance the government’s activities and enable it to issue a four-figure annual check to every man, woman, and child in the state. One of the reasons Palin has been a popular governor is that she added an extra twelve hundred dollars to this year’s check, bringing the per-person total to $3,269. A few weeks before she was nominated for Vice-President, she told a visiting journalist—Philip Gourevitch, of this magazine—that “we’re set up, unlike other states in the union, where it’s collectively Alaskans own the resources. So we share in the wealth when the development of these resources occurs.”

[eunhye]

Something we can agree on. http://www.nazg.com/iqrai/index.php/...-a-warm-puppy/ I agree wholeheartedly that troops need to come back home asap.

[Remyo]

ITT remyo lacks class consciousness.

you're crying for the people filing from their yachts. the people who have more freedoms and power and influence. the people who have more property protected by the US gov't (essentially getting a much higher return value for being a US citizen/resident).

QQ moar. people have achieved more life isn't fair, must rob from the rich and give to the poor. reward mediocrity!