Sarah Palin, Republican Vice Presidential Candidate

[Xno Kappa]

I agree with a ton of what you wrote here, especially the adoption angle. The amount of red-tape that one has to go through in the US to adopt is so high that's a ton are adopted from abroad. It's plain easier.
Also, I never said I don't believe in some aspects of evolution, I believe they can be taught side by side, something we'll not find out until our own death the answer too.

Should Scientology be taught side by side with Creationism and Evolution as well? Hell, while we're at it lets throw Gnosticism/Buddhism/MyFartintheprimodialoozism in there. Would you agree with this, what's your argument if not?

Hell yes we should toss our personal beliefs aside when creating policies for a whole nation.

[Sera]

You don't need to throw your beliefs out the window, just keep them to yourself. The double homicide argument won't stand because, as bad as it sounds, I'm certain the mother wanted it and felt like she could provide for it, whereas the aborted case is something that is either not wanted, unhealthy, or the parents are unable to care after the child.

Yeah, but its not a very consistant judgment call there. I don't know how that holds up: something's either alive or it isn't. It can't only be alive and valid if its wanted and an unimportant parasite if no one cares about it... see what I mean? It doesn't change the biological state of the actual being, which would be what would matter to decide if it is truly killing or not... For the record, I believe that it isn't alive until it can survive (i'll even go so far to say with medical support and technology helping it) outside my body. Certainly there's a line, a certain point of pregnancy where the judgment should be made that it is now a human being... but god please don't make this an abortion thread.

I'm agreeing with Saph on this though, it has to be one or the other, I'm just saying I think its the other.
To saph: it should be neither, its a medical thing and a personal decision that should be completely hands off as far as the yes or no issue. You could argue though that standards should be set for performing said procedures, but to dictate whether or not they are available to someone who elects to have one? Not the state's place, not the federal government's place, not any politician's place.

[Seraph]

For the party that quotes the founding fathers alot you guys sure love to shit on separation of church and state.

I'm a catholic but i'm also a fucking realist. If we were to stand by the Archaic teachings that the vatican wants to impose on us every time it passes and edict we would be fighting along side the radical extremists in trying to eradicate the jews. Alot of people put way to much faith into church leaders as if they have some direct line to god. They don't they are human beings just like you or me that don't have more of a connection to god then I do. they also have an agenda.

I find that people often confuse "Being a good person" with "Trying to get others to be like you." I find in general, religion is an awesome beneficial thing to humanity. However, like all things, it gets abused and misunderstood by many people.

What I would give for all religious text to just say something simple like "Love God, Love Each Other, And Don't Be An Asshole." People would still debate what an asshole is though. :-/



Edit: My connection for this to the thread would be, I tend to find Palin falling into the "Trying to get others to be like you" group. This generally doesn't sit well with me.

[zoobernut]

I would have to look up the actual laws but it seems like the double homicide thing falls into the discretion of the judge. And it seems like their judgment of it is based on how far along a women is when she gets murdered, which would make this whole argument moot because abortions are usually constrained by how far along a woman is too, at least that is how I believe it should be.

Explain to me how 2 cells with no nervous tissue no connective tissue can be a cognitive being on the same level as a baby farther along that has a developed brain and has begun to experience the world.

[Rhinox]

I'm not gonna disagree with you because I too believe that Religion is a beneficial thing. It fills holes in peoples lives that need them filled. However Religion can be bad as well as we are seeing with the batshit Sarah Palin. Btw where is all the news coverage on her being in the audience when her psychotic preacher went off on a tangent about the jews? Not that it matters because I don't think she should be help responsible for what a wacky preacher says but it sure did matter to the republicans.

[Seraph]

I would have to look up the actual laws but it seems like the double homicide thing falls into the discretion of the judge. And it seems like their judgment of it is based on how far along a women is when she gets murdered, which would make this whole argument moot because abortions are usually constrained by how far along a woman is too, at least that is how I believe it should be.

Explain to me how 2 cells with no nervous tissue no connective tissue can be a cognitive being on the same level as a baby farther along that has a developed brain and has begun to experience the world.

There is no easy realistic line in the sand. This is why the religious just say conception is the line. It's the easiest answer that makes sense.

The murder thing might also tie into intent too.

[Saphirea]

Well, if that's what you believe that's fine, he however supports abortion on the day of birth. Which while the Courts have deemed incorrect and illegal he has voted in support of the partial life abortions.

http://www.100abortionpictures.com/A...ortion_Photos/

Links to pictures of what this and late term's look at. Not for the weak stomached and nor something that I would suggest looking at right after eating.

However; I'm scared of Palin for her ideas of Unionism. I'm a bigtime pro Right to Work... However; I'll pick my battles and views, and since McCain / Palin fit most of my views ... that's how I'd vote.

I too am curious as to see how the debates are going to go. Something tells me that Biden is going to make a mockery of her.

[Rhinox]

I really wish Networks wouldn't give campaigns notice to which questions would be asked. then we would see who is bright and who is a deer in headlights.

[Sera]

Pictures haven't changed my opinion yet. Thanks for the link though, I am always happy to try to see things another way... but see the thing with me is, pro choice for me isnt pro death necessarily, i am not sure whether i would or wouldnt... but i DO feel i at least deserve to make my own choices.

[Rhinox]

btw should really tags those photos as NLS.

[Seraph]

I'll probably just end up taking this election like I take all the others...

Decision 2008: Who will screw me less?

I am kind of sick of political parties to be honest. They both suck. The independent parties aren't much better, since they are just smaller models of the same garbage. I want a debate where they list out....say... 50 topics. Each person gets to express their views on each of them. At least then I kinda know what I'm getting. Beats this liberal-moderate-conservative spectrum bullshit everyone keeps getting spoonfed.

At least people are being nit-picky and not just blindly voting party lines this year. ^^

[Quixon]

I find the whole Abortion and to an extent Gay Marriage arguments retarded from both sides of the fence.

I'd like to state first off that I am male, and straight.... I don't give a flying fuck about either issue.

Who is gay marriage affecting? No one but the people getting married.... shut the fuck up and deal with it. I don't care if your white-haired man in the sky doesn't like gay people. We haven't touched on this here but it goes hand in hand with this religious shit.

We all need to realize this abortion bullshit is never going to get settled either. It's just not going to happen because neither side wants to compromise.

[Saphirea]

btw should really tags those photos as NLS.

That's why I wrote what I wrote, figured with that disclaimer people would realize that. Sorry though.

As far as Gay Marriage, the term marriage in it is what upsets a ton of people. Use union or partner or whatever. Me personally I don't care either which way, it isn't effecting me if Joe screws Bob in the butt every night. If they love each other then fine by me, I'm sure they'll make amazing Dad's if they want to adopt... which again, the process should be easier if the people involved are able and willing and can provide for.

[kareface]

At conception, the zygote doesn't even have a nervous system. It can't feel pain... or anything for that matter. I personally don't like late term abortions, but that is something that should still be on the table if need be. However, if you abort the zygote early enough into the pregnancy then it would be no different then having a breast removed for cancer, if your breast couldn't feel pain. At that point it's just a lump of cells with no capacity to think or feel. People that feel that life begins at conception don't understand embryology. As long as it's early enough into the development, there is literally no harm. I would be the same as masturbating, only you would be killing much more genetic information rubbing one out.

[Maxxthepenguin]

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/in...in-gender-card

I know some of you have a visceral reaction to the daily show, but this is totally worth seeing

It's about pundits and the gender card and has a great twist ending

[Rhinox]

Well, if that's what you believe that's fine, he however supports abortion on the day of birth. Which while the Courts have deemed incorrect and illegal he has voted in support of the partial life abortions.

http://www.100abortionpictures.com/A...ortion_Photos/

Links to pictures of what this and late term's look at. Not for the weak stomached and nor something that I would suggest looking at right after eating.

However; I'm scared of Palin for her ideas of Unionism. I'm a bigtime pro Right to Work... However; I'll pick my battles and views, and since McCain / Palin fit most of my views ... that's how I'd vote.

I too am curious as to see how the debates are going to go. Something tells me that Biden is going to make a mockery of her.

It seems that most Conservatives (and liberals are guilty of this as well) only vote republican because of two key issues. Tax Policy and War aside because quite honestly you go into detail about taxes to an average american he wont know what the fuck you're talking about. They just want to know if its going to affect them or not. But as i was saying the two issues that seem important to conservatives are Abortion and Gay rights. The rest they claim to agree with because its the party that reflects their fundamental beliefs of life at conception and marriage is only between a man and a women but again this shouldn't be news to anyone.

[Rhinox]

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/in...in-gender-card

I know some of you have a visceral reaction to the daily show, but this is totally worth seeing

It's about pundits and the gender card and has a great twist ending

been posted at least about 3 times but yea it was hilarious.

[Tyche]

I don't think I have to state my stance on pro-life/abortion. Pretty rhetorical.

Gay marriage, I'm cool with it. No beefs...

As far as the debating goes, I'm really looking forward to the VP debate. I really don't think Biden will walk all over her as people seem to think. She's pretty damned fierce, and a lot of her traits are traits of good debaters. I don't see too many dumb comments, because these debates are heavily scripted and rehearsed to cover just about every conceivable angle. I hope, hope, Biden ends the debate by saying "Well, you know what, FUCK YOU...." because Biden is awesome like that. It would make my day. If nothing else, I think it'll be a most interesting debate.

[Xno Kappa]

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/in...in-gender-card

I know some of you have a visceral reaction to the daily show, but this is totally worth seeing

It's about pundits and the gender card

It's already been posted a few times lol. I personally believe those leaning right should at least give it a view to show why some are calling Republicans hypocrites on the whole gender issue.

[Octavious]

I always get sick of people who post pictures of Abortions. We always have those super conservative pro-life nutjobs parading around campus with their posters of baby fetuses next to sinks etc. I wasn't aware abortion clinics gave photoshoots on their dead babies.

It's seriously pretty irritating when people force feed those pictures (not in this case i understand) but really, I didn't think it was pretty. Those pictures are pretty fucked up, no shit. It's just like the people that use photos of animals being slaughtered for their pro-vegetarian soapbox. I understand people have strong views, but christ I have never thought a slaughterhouse was all fun and games. Just like I doubt anyone has thought abortion clinics give out lollipops and stickers.

Gah, if only people took the simple understanding of what 'Free Speech' means. The idea that your rights end where another persons rights begin, basically, respect others and they'll respect you. D: