Sarah Palin, Republican Vice Presidential Candidate

[Bingbong]

Yes, i also did enjoy how they seemed to be trying to convince people that the government with high disapproval ratings was actually a liberal one. Clearly they're going to change the conservative government... to a more conservative government.

Going over his words in my head, I can't quite see what you mean that he blamed liberals for the disapproval ratings... It sounded like he was trying to push the point across that he didn't care what side of the aisle someone was on, a shit bill is and was a shit bill.

BTW, this government hasn't been a "conservative" one in well over 2 decades. Spending and programs have been expanding, government mandates on businesses, schools, medicine and wages have grown, policies preventing new industries from growing have increased. Those weren't all proposed by liberals, I know, but those steps are not things a conservative government does. That part of his speech excited me the most... putting more money in the pockets of the people that earned it, and personal responsibility, not government hand-holding.

[BarthelloSylph]

Going over his words in my head, I can't quite see what you mean that he blamed liberals for the disapproval ratings... It sounded like he was trying to push the point across that he didn't care what side of the aisle someone was on, a shit bill is and was a shit bill.

BTW, this government hasn't been a "conservative" one in well over 2 decades. Spending and programs have been expanding, government mandates on businesses, schools, medicine and wages have grown, policies preventing new industries from growing have increased. Those weren't all proposed by liberals, I know, but those steps are not things a conservative government does. That part of his speech excited me the most... putting more money in the pockets of the people that earned it, and personal responsibility, not government hand-holding.

The Republican Administration of the last eight years did not practice conservative politics -- if only more people knew and understood that.

[Beckwin]

I missed the first part of the speech but goddam, talk about a bunch of nationalist conformist rhetoric. I mean you always expect a bunch of patriotic rah-rah, but daaaaamn mccain laid it on thick. Also his illusion of being an American Winston Churchill is just adorable.

[BarthelloSylph]

I missed the first part of the speech but goddam, talk about a bunch of nationalist conformist rhetoric. I mean you always expect a bunch of patriotic rah-rah, but daaaaamn mccain laid it on thick. Also his illusion of being an American Winston Churchill is just adorable.

Beckwin, I used to find your posts very reasoned and informed, but honestly, now I'm just surprised you weren't arrested with those looting stores and setting fires in St. Paul on Monday.

[Kuya]

Going over his words in my head, I can't quite see what you mean that he blamed liberals for the disapproval ratings... It sounded like he was trying to push the point across that he didn't care what side of the aisle someone was on, a shit bill is and was a shit bill.

BTW, this government hasn't been a "conservative" one in well over 2 decades. Spending and programs have been expanding, government mandates on businesses, schools, medicine and wages have grown, policies preventing new industries from growing have increased. Those weren't all proposed by liberals, I know, but those steps are not things a conservative government does. That part of his speech excited me the most... putting more money in the pockets of the people that earned it, and personal responsibility, not government hand-holding.

I wasn't talking about McCain, specifically.

Conservatism isn't some well defined collection of beliefs immune to time. It changes constantly, therefore i conclude that what you've seen in the last two decades is just the newest little addition to conservatism, you can't keep denying it by saying it's not really conservative. The newest face of conservatism is about as conservative as classical liberalism is somehow conservative too. Now, if we're talking about the Republican party itself, well, it seems its ideological blade has grown dull over the last two decades.

[Kuya]

The Republican Administration of the last eight years did not practice conservative politics -- if only more people knew and understood that.

Oh, it's practicing "conservative" politics alright, just not the kind of "conservatism" you like.

[Beckwin]

Beckwin, I used to find your posts very reasoned and informed, but honestly, now I'm just surprised you weren't arrested with those looting stores and setting fires in St. Paul on Monday.

...boo-hoo? I posted a quick reaction to the part of the speech I saw. McCain told his POW story well, but after that it was just American nationalist stroking. I'm really against nationalism in general, and our leading politicians talking about America having the best faith and needing to defeat our enemies (when we currently aren't fighting a defensive war or are even close to being in one) and being the best people on the planet genuinely does bother me.

[BarthelloSylph]

Oh, it's practicing "conservative" politics alright, just not the kind of "conservatism" you like.

If by "conservative" you mean a blend of high spending and tax cutting, than sure.

And why do you assume that I like conservatism? I'm a poli science nerd.

It's good to see so many people excited about this election, such as yourself. But it's nice when people try to check their emotion/anger at the door.

[BarthelloSylph]

...boo-hoo? I posted a quick reaction to the part of the speech I saw. McCain told his POW story well, but after that it was just American nationalist stroking. I'm really against nationalism in general, and our leading politicians talking about America having the best faith and needing to defeat our enemies (when we currently aren't fighting a defensive war or are even close to being in one) and being the best people on the planet genuinely does bother me.

I don't mean to sound condescending, but this post was much more substantive. I agree with a lot of your post. I'd rather talk about problems and solutions. Unfortunately, in practice you do see nationalism in politics, across the globe.

[quannum]

mccain/PALIN '08

atleast that was the feeling i get from the convention goers.

mccain's speech was full of puff-chested jingoism.
the only solid policy that was stated was doubling the child tax exemption fron 3.5k to 7k

very tepid overall

[Demosthenes11]

they've been trying to convince that conservatism has somehow changed because the republicans aren't practicing it for a while now...

[Beckwin]

RP on Colbert, bets on Church and Pohi furiously jerking right now?

[Churchill]

1. an amendment that states so explicitly, the 16th? iirc - Yes, but to answer you and Aurik, if the Supreme Court has done it's job in interpreting the law, saying that it is not legal to tax income then why was that ignored? That amendment was as shady as the bill that criminalized marijuana.

2. commerce clause - Congress isn't allowed to delegate its power, it was given to congress for a reason; to keep it away from banks and private institutions

3. Equal Protection - I was leaning more towards, this shouldn't be an issue because the Constitution already grants them the same rights as anyone else

4. good question. might fall under interstate commerce but kinda shaky - read the congressional documents regarding this bill

Aurik - Provide the IRS tax clause/mandate stating they can collect income taxes

Anyway, I will say this about taxes. In my opinion, the government has little role in our lives, this was the idea of the founding fathers and I kind of like that. I understand why some feel they should need taxes, and I understand the arguments against states being the only ones to tax and as such providing different levels of what the government now does for its citizens. However, the 16th Amendment was crap, it was shady, and if the government wants to collect taxes I think the bill should be proposed again and correctly ratified. There needs to be more oversight over how it is all spent, and it needs to be transparent. Without all the extraneous shit the government already spends money on, there wouldn't be a need for many taxes anyway, even with all the social programs you can dream of to give to leechers. In this political era...it would pass easily, would it ever be proposed? No, lol.

[Kuya]

If by "conservative" you mean a blend of high spending and tax cutting, than sure.

And why do you assume that I like conservatism? I'm a poli science nerd.

It's good to see so many people excited about this election, such as yourself. But it's nice when people try to check their emotion/anger at the door.

Some have forgone the controlled spending and hands off approach for more focus on the military and some sort of dogma about spreading democracy world wide.

[Churchill]

...boo-hoo? I posted a quick reaction to the part of the speech I saw. McCain told his POW story well, but after that it was just American nationalist stroking. I'm really against nationalism in general, and our leading politicians talking about America having the best faith and needing to defeat our enemies (when we currently aren't fighting a defensive war or are even close to being in one) and being the best people on the planet genuinely does bother me.

The America that started in 1776 was better than everyone else, but they didn't need to kick someones door in to tell them.

[Churchill]

RP on Colbert, bets on Church and Pohi furiously jerking right now?

Is he? I don't watch TV so I'll catch it on Youtube.

[Beckwin]

you can't say part of the constitution is unconstitutional (or imply it by "shady"). And being against the IRS on the grounds that it isn't directly operated by the members of congress is fucking childish.

[Beckwin]

oh and the America of 1776 had slavery, voting for white landowning males onry, a currency clusterfuck, etc. Just more reasons for why nationalism is dumb.

[Churchill]

I happen to think men like James Madison, John Adams, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and Ben Franklin got it right. They knew the dangers of allowing private institutions to control the currency of a country.

I didn't say because it was part of the Constitution that it was shady, but the way it was ratified. The information exists, just gotta look at it. Is RP off Colbert yet?

[Churchill]

oh and the America of 1776 had slavery, voting for white landowning males onry, a currency clusterfuck, etc. Just more reasons for why nationalism is dumb.

I'm sorry, should I have said 1787? The document lays out a pretty clear list of rights, rules, regulations, checks/balances, etc. The fact that people interpreted niggers as not being people is dumb, but nowadays gays aren't recognized by law either...society changes, I don't think I need to discuss that with you of all people. Currency was shit in '76 and '87 because of debt/non-recognition...that's to be expected when you fight a war against Imperialism and then start a country fresh.