Answers from JP Players

[Shapua]

thanks for this post it rlly does give alott of knowlage i will pass this post along to many people.

[DancingEdge]

I made a new post with some overall reactions to their answers.

With /check, it seems to be "If you know it's just the message, why does it still bother you?" versus "If you know it bothers us, why do you still do it?"

I also put up the ultramarine pic. Maybe they can take some pride in helping create a meme, however short-lived it may turn out to be.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE if you could, give them my honest response;


I have a right to check you if we are both in the same event or party, especially if I am the leader of the event or party, because I have a right to know if you are poorly geared, and it is nice to see if you are well geared, because I will be more kind to you and more willing to accept AFK if you need to, rather than the person who is wearing low quality gear who isn't contributing as much to the group. It tells me on WHM who will pull hate most, and who's HP I need to watch. And you have Bazaar comments, with info like other jobs leveled, and crafts, and sometimes you're selling stuff. How can you ask me NOT to check you when there's so many legitimate reasons TO check you? Would you all be less offended if I asked you if you were done with ZM and COP and TOA missions and had choosen your reward yet? It wouldn't get annoying to be asked if your gear is good or not every time you get a party?
(Hello!) (Welcome.) ... (Japanese) (Member) ... (/Equip) (Too Weak)? ... (Impossible to Gauge)?

[Rammses]

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE if you could, give them my honest response;


I have a right to check you if we are both in the same event or party, especially if I am the leader of the event or party, because I have a right to know if you are poorly geared, and it is nice to see if you are well geared, because I will be more kind to you and more willing to accept AFK if you need to, rather than the person who is wearing low quality gear who isn't contributing as much to the group. It tells me on WHM who will pull hate most, and who's HP I need to watch. And you have Bazaar comments, with info like other jobs leveled, and crafts, and sometimes you're selling stuff. How can you ask me NOT to check you when there's so many legitimate reasons TO check you? Would you all be less offended if I asked you if you were done with ZM and COP and TOA missions and had choosen your reward yet? It wouldn't get annoying to be asked if your gear is good or not every time you get a party?
(Hello!) (Welcome.) ... (Japanese) (Member) ... (/Equip) (Too Weak)? ... (Impossible to Gauge)?

You have a right to....? They have a right to be annoyed at you as well.
And you really shouldn't need to /check to able to judge people's party performances you know...

Not that I don't think getting offended by /check is silly. But adjusting your level of kindness to a person based on his gear, is sillier.

[DancingEdge]

Way to pick on one anecdote and ignore everything else.

Yay we both have rights.

You're missing the damn point.

I have a valid game related reason to want to check them.

They have a selfish petty minuscule pet peeve with the text displayed when you're checked, and have an abnormal sensitivity to being looked at.



I said like fifty things and instead of adding something to the discussion you're just going to pick on the fact that I'm nicer to people I feel are peers, and not as lenient with gimp or stupid players?

[Rikus]

is anyone else sick & f'in tired about hearing shit like this from the jp population?

NEWS FLASH the jp pop is full of noobs too!!

at least with English speaking ones you can tell them they are being noobs

[Ashira]

Not that I don't think getting offended by /check is silly. But adjusting your level of kindness to a person based on his gear, is sillier.

HAY, if we can judge people based on their skin color or the shape of their eyes or how much they weigh or the texture of their hair or the shabbiness or lack thereof of their clothing, then gdi i can decide that you're worth my time depending on the gear you wear!!!!!

!!!!

!

(more exclamation points to point out the sarcasm - remember, prejudice fails.)

[Ashira]

I said like fifty things and instead of adding something to the discussion you're just going to pick on the fact that I'm nicer to people I feel are peers, and not as lenient with gimp or stupid players?

Of course. Because that's sort of a crappy thing to do, and moreso to admit to.

Being an asshole to someone because they're not as leet as you are isn't going to make them want to be more like you. Because you're.. an asshole.

[Kazesan]

To all those in the /SAM or /NIN debate: If you're meripo'ing on birds, and you prefer /NIN, you're not only foolish, but detrimenting your party. Pecking flurry (4-hit TP move, and I'm only describing it because you /NIN fans are clearly forgetting this) wipes a NIN's full shadows, it a guarunteed hit on anyone who is /NIN. Third Eye will absorb the entire move on a single charge, every time, guarunteed. If you're meripo'ing on Puks/Mamool Ja, the opposite applies. Puk's Crosswind can be avoided by shadows and so can Mamool Ja spells (Remember, they're all NIN, BLM, BLU, or BST, so shadows apply to 3/4 of Mamool Ja). At the same time, they can also perform multi-hit WS, so really it could go either way.

What does this all mean? It's situational. The one edge that utsusemi has over third eye is that third eye needs to be refreshed every 30 seconds. However, at the same time for those who are SAM main like myself, Hasso's effect is too potent to simply pass up, and it doubles the recast timer for any spells cast, including utsusemi, so I generally keep Seigan up the majority of the time and /WAR. Its effect is sporatic (sometimes single charge, sometimes 5+ with multiple counters), but then again it doesn't get broken through a single pecking flurry. The majority of mage-types that complain about either SAM/WAR or Anything/SAM is that they're either A.) partying with people who suck balls at Hasso/Seigan swapping (or just prefer to leave Hasso on 24/7) or B.) They're just completely ignorant to the potential of /SAM.

[DancingEdge]

Of course. Because that's sort of a crappy thing to do, and moreso to admit to.

Being an asshole to someone because they're not as leet as you are isn't going to make them want to be more like you. Because you're.. an asshole.

Right.


In retrospect it's a shitty attitude to have, and no one should be unkind to people just because of their gear, gear should not be a factor in how you treat people, or your attitude towards them.

Spoiler: show

People who can't possibly understand any of the problems associated with windower are as retarded as the 30 year old paragraph humping domaru sams on the ps2 with 2000 posts on allakazham living off welfare watching naruto jerking off to mithra fan art, who are of the opinion that alt tabbing out of a PC game is morally corrupt

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showp...&postcount=193

Oh wait.

[Kazesan]

Way to pick on one anecdote and ignore everything else.

Yay we both have rights.

You're missing the damn point.

I have a valid game related reason to want to check them.

They have a selfish petty minuscule pet peeve with the text displayed when you're checked, and have an abnormal sensitivity to being looked at.



I said like fifty things and instead of adding something to the discussion you're just going to pick on the fact that I'm nicer to people I feel are peers, and not as lenient with gimp or stupid players?

As far as cultural equivalency, being "stared at fixedly." to them is about the same as us seeing "Player fucks your mother." I don't know about you, but I'd be pretty pissed off to see that text in a game once, let alone to see it a bunch. Also, most JPs are ok with party examination, and I don't think they're mad at your examining them, like they themselves have said. They're HIGHLY formal and used to polite requests for even the simplest of things and most of them would be happy with a simple (/check) (Can I have it?). It goes back to the apologizing for shouting part. They are accustomed to (granted, sometimes unneccessary) formalities.

[Ruiner]

As far as cultural equivalency, being "stared at fixedly." to them is about the same as us seeing "Player fucks your mother." I don't know about you, but I'd be pretty pissed off to see that text in a game once, let alone to see it a bunch. Also, most JPs are ok with party examination, and I don't think they're mad at your examining them, like they themselves have said. They're HIGHLY formal and used to polite requests for even the simplest of things and most of them would be happy with a simple (/check) (Can I have it?). It goes back to the apologizing for shouting part. They are accustomed to (granted, sometimes unneccessary) formalities.

Then they can filter the text.

[Aksannyi]

I don't know why Square Enix hasn't done something to fix that by now if it's really so insulting to JP players. I can't imagine it would take a whole hell of a lot of work to change the sentence. I mean, SE has to know by now that their JP playerbase dislikes that, right?

Oh, wait ... Square Enix ... yeah. Forget it.

[Rowe]

Well, since day one on learning that Japanese players consider /check rude I accepted that and never /check people without asking first. All those people who know they consider it rude and do it anyway, well you are then in fact rude and it reflects on all NA players.

Simple fact it's a cultural thing they consider it rude, you can rationalize all you want on why it shouldn't bother them but it does. Worry about your own gear,obsess over your own gear. You aren't seeing anything you can't look up on website, there are no secret items the JPs have you will be surprised to see. The whole "I need to know if they are gimp" is bullshit, it's an excuse and it doesn't matter unless they are joining your HNMLS.

[Kazesan]

Ignore this post. I made a booboo. Lol.

[Rowe]

They have a selfish petty minuscule pet peeve with the text displayed when you're checked, and have an abnormal sensitivity to being looked at.

No you are completely wrong here, it is not about the text displayed when you check them. It is you are invading their privacy without their permission.

If a guy is on a 1st date with a woman and she hangs her purse on a chair and it is hanging open, now a guy could be curious and lean over and look inside her purse and see what she has in it, she sees him do this and chances are he won't get a second date. Or your waitress is wearing a low cut dress and leans over to pour you some water, you could check out her boobs but if you get caught you could get the stink-eye x2. So you restrain yourself and don't look, because you are trying to make a good impression.

Japanese always try to make the good impression with others. No one is stopping you from checking out a waitress' rack but if you do you make a bad impression. No one is stopping the /check but if you do it to someone who considers it rude you just insulted them.

[DancingEdge]

Well, since day one on learning that Japanese players consider /check rude I accepted that and never /check people without asking first. All those people who know they consider it rude and do it anyway, well you are then in fact rude and it reflects on all NA players.

Simple fact it's a cultural thing they consider it rude, you can rationalize all you want on why it shouldn't bother them but it does. Worry about your own gear,obsess over your own gear. You aren't seeing anything you can't look up on website, there are no secret items the JPs have you will be surprised to see. The whole "I need to know if they are gimp" is bullshit, it's an excuse and it doesn't matter unless they are joining your HNMLS.

I love how no one has given a good reason why the JP don't just filter it.

And what on earth are you talking about with this nothing you can't look up nonsense?

You cannot see the following without checking someone.

Grip.
Ranged. (Unless you SEE them USE a ranged attack)
Ammo.
Neck.
R.ear.
L.ear.
R.ring.
L.ring.
Back.
Waist.


And lots of weapons share .dat files. Like Misericorde looks the same as blau. Azoth Harpe H. Hapre and P. Harpe, all share one dat. Etc.



How do you look that up on a website?

Oh, you don't. That's right.



Edit;

Also... I have to run an HNMLS to want to know what gear you're wearing? EXP and Merit aren't good enough reasons to wanna know if someone's gimp? Bullshit.

[ITT-Cake]

No you are completely wrong here, it is not about the text displayed when you check them. It is you are invading their privacy without their permission.

Or your waitress is wearing a low cut dress and leans over to pour you some water, you could check out her boobs but if you get caught you could the stink-eye x2. So you restrain yourself and don't look, because you are trying to make a good impression.

No, I'd say I definitely check out her boobs. Her getting mad about it makes about as much sense as me getting pissed if I had a bald spot and she looked at it because I wasn't wearing a hat. I'd be the retard who needed to wear enough clothes to cover myself if I was offended by a body part being exposed. Moreso if I was working in a position that regularly had me presenting that body part directly into the line of sight of other people.

If I crawled under the table to see her panties however, that would fully fit your analogy.

Totally off topic, just a pet peeve.

[DancingEdge]

No you are completely wrong here, it is not about the text displayed when you check them. It is you are invading their privacy without their permission.

If a guy is on a 1st date with a woman and she hangs her purse on a chair and it is hanging open, now a guy could be curious and lean over and look inside her purse and see what she has in it, she sees him do this and chances are he won't get a second date. Or your waitress is wearing a low cut dress and leans over to pour you some water, you could check out her boobs but if you get caught you could the stink-eye x2. So you restrain yourself and don't look, because you are trying to make a good impression.

Japanese always try to make the good impression with others. No one is stopping you from checking out a waitress' rack but if you do you make a bad impression. No one is stopping the /check but if you do it to someone who considers it rude it rude you just insulted them.

Purse = Inventory.

Your analogy would be correct if this were in-person and you left your computer unattended and I rummaged through it.

I understand the good impressions thing.

But your analogies fail.

And the thing is, why am I making concessions for them if they cannot do the same for me? You follow? They could very easily filter if it bothers them, but they don't. Why? Because they have a right to know if their privacy is being violated? I brought up valid points as to why I should be able to use built in game mechanics to check your equipment, all you've given me is Japanese cultural reasons to not check them because they think it's rude, but you haven't addressed the fact that they can easily disable the notification, all you give me is bad analogies.

[Corrderio]

I don’t know about everyone individually, but the Japanese text message is just no good. ”Player stares at you fixedly.”

Damn, no wonder why the JPs hate that. I can see where that'd give JPs a wrong impression.

The message that displays for /check is unpleasant. It’s Square Enix’s fault.

QFT

I was really shocked at the mixed feelings about NAs, but then again... guess I can't really blame them though.

[DancingEdge]

Much like this vase.


http://www.sph.umich.edu/apihealth/2...ken%20vase.jpg

The arguments for not checking people are very pretty on the outside, but when it comes to practicality, they don't hold much water.