The PK Kids vs. Wolf

[Antithesis]

Just a general question for any other PK Kid users.

Does anyone else find it strange that you seem to do better with Lucas on Wolf than with Ness? Alot of people tell me Ness is superior to Lucas on Wolf but I have a much harder time damaging Wolf on Ness than on Lucas. Lucas's Daerial is so helpful for getting back to the ground when shot in the air to counter Wolfs attacks. Theres other things too but I just seem to have an easier time with Lucas than with Ness.

Anyone have an opinion on this in general? Wolf's just hard on both PK kids really. >_<

[AkashiXI]

Don't know, the general reason why I'd think Ness would be better is because Wolf's a heavyweight, therefore you can combo him easier (pk fire -> fsmash or dgrab, rinse and repeat). I'm not too prone on this match-up though because I hate the EB children, so ask Meian (he plays both lucas&ness). But yeah, my guess is his weight and Ness' ability to KO/combo heavyweights faster than Lucas.

[Tsutsumiko]

I honestly find N-Air to F-Tilt/Jab/Up Tilt with Lucas deals with most things Wolf throws at you. Projectiles should be no problem for you basically so Wave Bouncing strategically plus N-Air seems to be the way to go.

[Meian]

Just a general question for any other PK Kid users.

Does anyone else find it strange that you seem to do better with Lucas on Wolf than with Ness? Alot of people tell me Ness is superior to Lucas on Wolf but I have a much harder time damaging Wolf on Ness than on Lucas. Lucas's Daerial is so helpful for getting back to the ground when shot in the air to counter Wolfs attacks. Theres other things too but I just seem to have an easier time with Lucas than with Ness.

Anyone have an opinion on this in general? Wolf's just hard on both PK kids really. >_<

I have heard the argument of Ness vs. Lucas consistantly and after having played both, I think they both cover the other's weaknesses more than one being better (my opinion); although Lucas can show more versatility and be easier to play than Ness, but I like Ness's air game far more than Lucas (or because I am just better with Ness).

As for Wolf, the ones I have played don't jump around as much as I thought and seem to have more of a stationary field they stay around it. You may be right about Lucas probably having an easier time than Ness (n-air his crouching body shape as opposed to fair Ness). Small characters vs. the PK Kids tend to have Lucas more in favor of them to me.

I still don't get why Stick > Bat .................................................. ............

Do you in general do better with Lucas against most characters?

[Metah]

From what I've seen between playing both Lucas and Ness...

Lucas' PK Absorb can be used OFFENSIVELY to stun and can even KO lighter characters at percents over 100. Ness' however, is nearly impossible to use because they'd have to be inside your body, although it still hurts. Both reduce your falling speed.

Ness' PK Fire is great because you can Pillar Spike and combo with it, making Lucas' seem less desirable, although thanks to B-Sticking, Lucas' PK Fire is improved.

PK Flash can kill at far lower percents, but PK Freeze is "easier" to hit with (both are hard to connect, frankly) and freezes.

Lucas' recovery is far better than Ness'. He has a decent tether range (its longer than his throw range) and his PK Thunder 2 goes farther and is much harder to gimp, since the only thing that can stop PK Thunder is a solid object. However, it moves slower, and offensively, while useful, isn't as good as Ness', in my opinion. Ness PK Thunder moves far faster and is stopped by EVERYTHING. It has much stronger knockback, and Tailwhipping can add additional damage. His PKT2 also moves a shorter distance than Lucas', but is FAR stronger. So while Ness is better offensively with his PK Thunder, he lacks defensively.

In terms of aerial game, Ness' nair, bair and uair can all KO, with his dair being a strong spike. His dair is a powerful spike, almost impossible to recover from. His fair combos very easily and stacks damage easily. Lucas however, has two meteors (one frame near the end of bair and the last kick of dair), although neither is as strong as Ness'. His fair can kill, but because of its good combo ability, it can suffer from Stale Moves. His nair is similar to Ness' fair, but better I think. It shorthop combos even easier, and does more damage generally. His bair can also be shorthopped nicely if you get the timing right. His uair is okay. His dair is far safer to get back on the stage with than Ness', in my opinion. It has extremely long range, shorthops nicely, multiple hits and does nice damage. In general, Ness appears better for aerial game.

Lucas however, dominates ground game in my opinion. His utilt and ftilt are incredibly fast, have insane range, deal great knockback (although can suffer from Stale Moves) and deal great damage. His dtilt is very fast and can chain into Fsmash very easily if you get an opponent caught in a flurry of dtilts. His A combo is decent, dash attack is good: long range and good knockback. His Fsmash is better than Ness'. To me it feels like it comes out faster, but also hits as strong. It also appears to have a longer range, or at least a weirdass hitbox. Yesterday I played someone with Lucas, and I killed them with Fsmash, but the stick didn't actually touch them. It was an offline match, so no lag fuck or anything. His dsmash has decent startup and his multiple hits, but the first shot has a larger hitbox behind him than the other hits do. I've KOed people behind me with dsmash because of that first shot. Its also decently strong and a good surprise move. His usmash is INCREDIBLY powerful, but also has incredibly long startup. Its good for punishing, but also good for just catching someone offguard.

Ness' dtilt is faster than Lucas, A combo is also decent. Utilt combos good, dashing attack is good. Ftilt is decent. Fsmash is strong but appears to lack to Lucas'. Usmash and Dsmash are much faster, but are hard to KO with. However, they're good for comboing and can catch rolling people. His moves go nicely with someone caught in a PK Fire. Overall, I think Lucas is far better for ground game.

Throw wise, Lucas has further range due to his tether but has lots of after lag. His bthrow, uthrow and fthrow can all kill depending where you are. His dthrow is the weakest, but throws opponents straight up so you can combo with PK Thunder or an aerial at low percents. Ness' grab is much faster but shorter. Ness' bthrow is UNSTOPPABLE at higher percents, it will kill you. His other throws don't have so much killing power in comparison to Lucas', however. Even at high percents I've survived uthrow and fthrow. His dthrow combos much easier and even at mid percents, however. Throw wise, its pretty even.

Overall, for these reasons, Meian is right about one covering the other's weaknesses. You just need to figure out which playstyle is more suited to you. I find I use Lucas better because I'm more defensive, but Meian fights much more offensively and beats me with Ness quite a bit.

[Antithesis]

I have heard the argument of Ness vs. Lucas consistantly and after having played both, I think they both cover the other's weaknesses more than one being better (my opinion); although Lucas can show more versatility and be easier to play than Ness, but I like Ness's air game far more than Lucas (or because I am just better with Ness).

As for Wolf, the ones I have played don't jump around as much as I thought and seem to have more of a stationary field they stay around it. You may be right about Lucas probably having an easier time than Ness (n-air his crouching body shape as opposed to fair Ness). Small characters vs. the PK Kids tend to have Lucas more in favor of them to me.

I still don't get why Stick > Bat .................................................. ............

Do you in general do better with Lucas against most characters?

I mostly use Ness and then Lucas to practice just in case of a Matchup like Marth or something so sometimes I try to aerial whore with Lucas and forget "why is my sparkly fingers suddenly sparkly kicks?"