Possibly private server or are mithra's just that Op now?

[Kaylia]

Hi, what part of no AI don't people understand.

Even if there was AI, it'd be based off what WE know, not what it REALLY is.

Well, it would be more appropriate to talk about script than AI in the case of a mmorpg, because no server could handle anything that has more than a few line of codes. While I agree it's based on what "we" know, I think it would be pretty easy to mimic something really close, with the exception of a few special behaviors. The pathfinding algorithm could be considered an AI I guess, but it's probably something simple involving the structure of every map (ignoring Z axis).

There is 3 variable important for every monsters: current hp, enmity list (player names, CE, VE), and current tp. Above 30% hp, monsters select a random weapon skill at 300tp. Under 30%, they will use it when they reach 100-150%. Programming the enmity table would be a pain, but we understand it pretty well by now.

Beside that, there is the general job behavior (spell caster use spell at certain interval, melee just follow the target), but this part is easy to replicate again.

[Gulkeeva]

Well I mean like...
if you can spawn AV.. which is to appear after jailer of Love dies, whats to stop you from spawning the PW boss phases, maybe it's ID spawns are in order so you can spawn different phases of it?

[SephYuyX]

This is where I may be wrong, but: Im fairly sure all mobs are popped, hence Nid and Faf, and Behe and KB being present at once. I would assume JoL/AV would be present at the same time, and same would apply to PW. But again, ive never used it so that part i'm not aware of.

[Jakson]

Well I mean like...
if you can spawn AV.. which is to appear after jailer of Love dies, whats to stop you from spawning the PW boss phases, maybe it's ID spawns are in order so you can spawn different phases of it?

This is what I was wondering. Yes, we get that when it is spawned it isn't going to do what the actual PW does. What would be interesting to find out would be what forms it goes through if you kill it, or if it even will spawn different forms after you kill the first one, or if the first one will even hellsnap and spawn gears, etc. etc.

[Rowe]

So are all zones available to explore in this? I wouldn't mind using it to explore some maps I haven't memorized yet.

[Acorn]

here is the database shit for aydeewa:

PW and friends are all blank so idk what to put there to try and pop it, I know the position but that's about it ( adding the position alone fucked it up and now my FFXI client crashes when I go to PW area )


http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/5391/wutec9.th.jpg

[Zosi]

This is what I was wondering. Yes, we get that when it is spawned it isn't going to do what the actual PW does. What would be interesting to find out would be what forms it goes through if you kill it, or if it even will spawn different forms after you kill the first one, or if the first one will even hellsnap and spawn gears, etc. etc.

You still don't get it. THAT IS ALL SERVER-SIDE. None of that can be "discovered" on a private server, because you'd still have to code in the behavior yourself. All that the client has is a list of mob IDs and the required information to show the right models and animations when the server tells it to. There's zero actual game logic on the client, and that's what we're limited to in terms of actual SE-provided information.

[Gulkeeva]

This is what I was wondering. Yes, we get that when it is spawned it isn't going to do what the actual PW does. What would be interesting to find out would be what forms it goes through if you kill it, or if it even will spawn different forms after you kill the first one, or if the first one will even hellsnap and spawn gears, etc. etc.

Well they said mobs have no real ai so, it won't use anything... and probably won't spawn anything... but the idea is...sea HNM need something to pop it... I presume he used a ID??? and spawned it... he probably did the same for AV.

So... warden technically works the same, you kill one.. it spawns a new one... and they go in order, could you spawn in order (even if not in order) what other forms it has by typing in the ID #'s?

[Katlan]

the most any mobs will do is auto atk you since that data is client side & the animationed is determined by what weapon your using. I don't believe any mob can even use their TP on a private server unless coded to do so. Can't learn much from a FFXI P-Server about mob behavior or how to kill something... prolly just useful for finding where things pop... and that bring me to "Almightly Apkallu" (sp)!!! gogo find where it pops... that and go find where birdman cape drops :D

still you all are missing the fact that it's impossible to replicate the way the server tells any mob to act. you can mimic it, but you can't use it to determine who the mob will act on a live server. I don't get why this argument is still going on and ppl are all like "well we only need to know X, Y, and Z." If it was that easy then it would have been done years ago, this isnt a new game

[The Stig]

Well I poshacked myself to Kirin's room and I see a CFH Genbu, Kirin, and the other 3 dead gods, Kirin's Avatar (Shiva)

So how do you people get stuff to fight you/engage? I wouldn't mind just taking a few real swings at anything ...


And I tried to replicate some cutscenes, nothing worked so far, I wanted to do the 5 generals CS ... >_<

[Neosutra]

Fight the mobs in real FFXI, record encoded responses for each mob from SE server, profit?

Assuming people were educated enough to

1. Identify the send/recieve path for the SE line codes.
2. Decode it (I assume that the people that made this private server stuff have at least partially decoded SE's encryption).
3. Map that mob behavior to private server.
4. Profit?

[SephYuyX]

Fight the mobs in real FFXI, record encoded responses for each mob from SE server, profit?

Assuming people were educated enough to

1. Identify the send/recieve path for the SE line codes.
2. Decode it (I assume that the people that made this private server stuff have at least partially decoded SE's encryption).
3. Map that mob behavior to private server.
4. Profit?

Only a select few have the know how to do it, and they arnt sharing. A few from the Windower team, and the dude from FFXIApp being some.

[Neosutra]

Only a select few have the know how to do it, and they arnt sharing. A few from the Windower team, and the dude from FFXIApp being some.

The developer of this must know a little as well to acheive some of these things.

[SephYuyX]

Youd think, but he would have done it by now if he could. If he is able to, then maybe it's not that simple.

[Gwynplaine]

Does it make me a completely lame dork if the first thing I thought of was taking pictures of stuff for a wiki?

[Eanae]

Well, it would be more appropriate to talk about script than AI in the case of a mmorpg, because no server could handle anything that has more than a few line of codes. While I agree it's based on what "we" know, I think it would be pretty easy to mimic something really close, with the exception of a few special behaviors. The pathfinding algorithm could be considered an AI I guess, but it's probably something simple involving the structure of every map (ignoring Z axis).

There is 3 variable important for every monsters: current hp, enmity list (player names, CE, VE), and current tp. Above 30% hp, monsters select a random weapon skill at 300tp. Under 30%, they will use it when they reach 100-150%. Programming the enmity table would be a pain, but we understand it pretty well by now.

Beside that, there is the general job behavior (spell caster use spell at certain interval, melee just follow the target), but this part is easy to replicate again.

I don't know if I'm understanding you wrong, but mobs are both scripted and loaded with AI. TP moves, abilities, who the mob will attack will all be handeled with AI, while HP, MP, defense and the works would be scripted. Pathing is infact AI, but it's handeled in it's own class rather then every specific mob. This class is a sub-class of the main monster's AI.

Edit: To cite an example, AI in lineage 2 is coded in ASM and handles everything I mentioned, while scripting is what you'd expect: (mobid=150 name=genbu hp=250000...etc)

[Katlan]

Fight the mobs in real FFXI, record encoded responses for each mob from SE server, profit?

Assuming people were educated enough to

1. Identify the send/recieve path for the SE line codes.
2. Decode it (I assume that the people that made this private server stuff have at least partially decoded SE's encryption).
3. Map that mob behavior to private server.
4. Profit?

And once SE found out about this the ppl responsible will have more issued legal sanctions then just a normal P-Server host would. Thats essentially stealing private information. and somebody who would/could do such a thing would be the stupidest person alive if they allowed anybody but only the most trustworthy ppl to play on it

[Zosi]

I don't know if I'm understanding you wrong, but mobs are both scripted and loaded with AI. TP moves, abilities, who the mob will attack will all be handeled with AI, while HP, MP, defense and the works would be scripted. Pathing is infact AI, but it's handeled in it's own class rather then every specific mob. This class is a sub-class of the main monster's AI.

Edit: To cite an example, AI in lineage 2 is coded in ASM and handles everything I mentioned, while scripting is what you'd expect: (mobid=150 name=genbu hp=250000...etc)

You really don't have a clue what you're talking about. For one thing, no MMO uses "true" AI. It's too computationally expensive for a MMO server. They implement behavior by using, that's right, scripting. Here's a grossly simplified pseudo-code example for Fafnir:

spawnModel("Fafnir");
while(hp > 0) {
targetList = checkForTargets();
currentTarget = pickTarget(targetList);
if (TP < 200) {
if (inRange(currentTarget)) {
meleeAttack(currentTarget);
} else if (inVisibleRange(currentTarget)) {
moveTowards(currentTarget);
}
} else {
if (inRange(currentTarget)) {
useTpMoveByNumber(randomNumber(0, 4);
} else {
ZOMGFLAIL();
}
}
die();
dropLoot("Aegishjalmr", "Aquarian Abjuration: Feet");

Obviously, the actual script would be a lot more complex, and there's tons of support functions that I'm totally making up as I go, but you'd have to write those too.

[The Stig]

Can we split this thread into:

1. People that wanna play/poke around/learn more with this "emulator"
2. People that want to discuss more technical/indepth things

(before all other experimentation fades). I would like to carry on discussion/ideas with the people in the Group "1" suggested aboce

[Octavious]

I laughed more than I should have at the ... else{ZOMGFLAIL();}

I seriously would piss myself if the code had a function called ZOMGFLAIL for Faffy Spike Flailing, lol. I usually call my stuff pretty boring straightforward names, maybe I should make some better procedure names...