All Worlds Maintenance (Sep. 8)

[Invictusx]

I think whm will be getting something this update for sure, but im not sure its going to be anything about melee lol

[Reapz]

Ahem...let me try this again.

Hey, maybe this will be the update where they'll add in the new summonable avatars that they've been mentioning for the past two years!

^

While i'm happy with everything they have announced so far I can't help but cry at SE cockteasing SMN with all the unsummonable avatars and promises made

[Silenka]

Don't think we're getting any avatars this update... which is BS, and so unfair, since I wanted some goddamn birthday avatars.

[Qeomash]

This marks the 1 year anniversary of ToAU44, so now is as good as anytime to get the giant flying castle as a summon...







...but we'll probably only get Odin.

[FailureMidgard]

WHM got Devotion and Martyr in addition to Shell and Protect V. BRD got two entirely new songs, and two JAs.
It's not so much that an incremental increase is bad, but more the gap, and the relative lack of new stuff for a while. Level 61-75 has 8 spells for RDM. Prot/Shell IV, and the tier III nukes. We get no WSes between 175 and quested (Vorpal via sub access only). We get no new JAs or traits in the 60s at all.
Now, I understand that this is the typical type of progression one can expect from a "hybrid" class. But RDM doesn't exactly play out that way, in part due to low skill caps in many areas, but in part because of accepted role in a party.

The point with Bard was I would have rather had an incremental increase. Troubadour is nice only due to it's interaction with the bard's 2hr (and ES), Nightingale is meh, and the threat songs are kinda meh as well. Almost every single job has little to no increase between 61-75 also. I can think of many times I was more excited with my subjob hitting a level than my mainjob (warcry, utsu: ni, stoneskin on /rdm for sch, healing waltz).

Dragoons get nothing that they use from 51-75, Samurai get nothing from 61-75 except a passive trait, White Mages get 10 spells, 4 of which are prots and shells from 61-75.

Don't get me wrong, I think in general there should be more to look forward to while leveling, I just think there is a serious problem with saying that it is anywhere remotely near unique for red mages, or saying that it has to do with incremental increases in merit abilities.

I agree, a lot of the cat 2s could be lower level. IMO, a number of them -should- be, since RDM isn't exactly along in having the 60s+ kinda just die for new stuff. The San wheel could be, for example.

Pretty much every job could have their merits like this, but all it would do is scale up the power of PCs, which is largely unnecessary. More to do I am in full support of, but giving red mages slow2 at 65 would not give them any more to do or make the job any different.

I play other jobs too, some of which are worse (NIN for instance). It's not that I think RDM is an exclusive case, it's simply the job that was under discussion.

Look at it in the reverse though. Would you like it if Carnage Elegy was merit only? It's a great song, well worth meriting, but wouldn't that be a bit long to wait? Or Kurayami Ni? There are very comparable boosts that come along for other jobs well before merits.

Sure, I would have saved 100k from buying Carnage Elegy. ;p But honestly, it wouldn't have made a difference to me...it wouldn't have made lvling that much different, and I would be in the same situation in endgame (except I'd be able to spend more merits to increase the accuracy and/or potency of it?). Sounds like a pretty good tradeoff. As a side note, I'd also be happier with Massacre Elegy as a merit ability than one of these random useless "unique" abilities I have now.

Part of it is that the RDM job has remained very much the same since NA got the game. Playing it, it really doesn't change from 60-75, as nearly everything you get it just something a little better than before.
Is it terribly weak or unbalanced? No. But it is tedious, and over the span of years, pretty boring in a lot of cases. I've played it since I started the game, and there's a lot I like about it. Doesn't mean there aren't things to critique.

Again, that is true with a vast majority of jobs. The interesting part of playing this game is the gear/macros available to you. It -DOES- play different at 75 when you have a full enf set, a potency set, some sort of partial mix, etc available to you. The play differences are in what you make of what is available to you.

I cannot think of a single job outside of scholar that does not get repetitive and old. Scholar just has so many options available to it at all times, it truly is a fun job to play.


My only real point is every single job out there except for perhaps scholar needs what you are advocating.

[Ophannus]

Every job should have a 'charge' or a 'seal' ability which is not like a mini 2hr but somethng that accentuates the job. WAR doesn't need a forced crit, they have Warrior's Charge, THF has Assassin's Charge. Think of both the THF and WAR ability are like Warrior's Seal and Thief's Seal in comparsion to Divine Seal and Elemental Seal in that it gives them increased 'potency' for the next specific action.Most jobs have one either leveling normally or through merit points.
WAR-Warrior's Charge(Next hit is a double attack)
THF-Assassin's Charge(Next hit is a triple attack)
SAM-Sekkanoki(Next weapon skills costs 100% TP)
DRG-Deep Breathing(Next Wyvern breath is doubled)
RNG-Flashy Shot(Next ranged attack ignores level penalties)
WHM-DS(Next healing spell is doubled)
BLM-ES(Next spell has increased accuracy)
BRD-Nightingale(Next song's cast time is cut)
DRK-Dark Seal(Next dark magic spell has icnreased acc lol)
SMN-???
BST-???
NIN-???
MNK- I want to say Boost, because it affects their next action but I dont think that counts...
BLU- Diffusion(Next enhancing BLU spell affects the party)

[VivixKujata]

I think you forgot RDM, PLD

[Ophannus]

I think Sentinel kinda counts as it would be silly to add a JA that "Makes the next Physical attack deal no damage" or "Enhances the next shield block".

And for RDM would need a "Enhances the casting speed of the next spell" but that seems unlikely, but maybe SE could think of something for these two...

[arus2001]

Sometimes I wonder if I'm the only RDM that doesn't give a crap about Fast Cast. I'd rather more oomph or versatility than being able to wait for Refresh's cooldown timer a fraction of a second sooner.

[Ahlah]

I don't understand why ppl still complain about RDM not getting new stuffs. In term of versatility, no other jobs in this game even come close to RDM. Tank, healer, debuff, solo you name it. It's hard for SE to introduce new adjustment without overpowering the job. I will be happy as long as they don't nerf RDM.

BST is the only job that really needs good adjustment. When is the last time you see a lv75 BST in your merit party, in any endgame evetns or when you are just hanging out in Whitegate? Not to mention RDM/BST outperform BST main in 99% of the situations.

[Jakson]

This will be the update where they finally read all my requests to adjust WHM club skill...
I can feel it...

This.

Also, I'd like to see a club WS for whm only that has a reasonable amount of mp drain, a la Spirit Taker, that doesn't suck like Starlight/Moonlight. More reasonable offhand choices of clubs besides those of us that don't have perdu wand or kc please.

[Talint]

Here's a fun fact on the topic of DNCs, SAMs, and Auto-Regain.

When you sub SAM, you get 60TP when you use meditate. Meditate is on a 3 minute timer.

If you do the math, assuming you use meditate exactly every three minutes, it comes to 1TP/tic. Which is probably what an Auto-Regain trait would give.

But yeah, to reflect some DNC wishes in the thread, some alternative means to regain TP outside of Reverse Flourish would be nice, as well as some raise jigs. Generally, more things to do (flourishes, steps, whatever) would be a huge bonus.

It's a much better support job than a main job. I love DNC very much, but it really takes a lot to get it working properly, and the tradeoff isn't very good compared to other supports.

[Antithesis]

I don't understand why ppl still complain about RDM not getting new stuffs. In term of versatility, no other jobs in this game even come close to RDM. Tank, healer, debuff, solo you name it. It's hard for SE to introduce new adjustment without overpowering the job. I will be happy as long as they don't nerf RDM.

BST is the only job that really needs good adjustment. When is the last time you see a lv75 BST in your merit party, in any endgame evetns or when you are just hanging out in Whitegate? Not to mention RDM/BST outperform BST main in 99% of the situations.

Don forget SMN and PUP two other jobs that are also in desprate need of some form of an update to bring them back into the game (well SMN for the most part PUPs never really been part of the endgame scene.)

In fact the jobs that are needing the most adjustments are the pet jobs in total yes even DRG to some respects. Because when you think about it DRG is basically a diffrent version of a WAR with a pet.

Its just the way pets work in this game in general that needs fixing also. PUP overall needs "something" to get it into the real endgame scene. SMN has seen a major decline in the past few months due to everyone have a much more useful job with SMN really being only useful for select fights. BST is basically an aged version of a PUP in terms of needing something for the endgame scene but they have been able to deal with it slightly better then they have (Go go TheFlock.) DRG is a solid DD overall and very good damage but its wyvern just doesnt feel like it gives alot sometimes.

Thats just my opinion though because ive meet some people that swear SMN does not need an update outside of new avatars.

[Izzy]

This.

Also, I'd like to see a club WS for whm only that has a reasonable amount of mp drain, a la Spirit Taker, that doesn't suck like Starlight/Moonlight. More reasonable offhand choices of clubs besides those of us that don't have perdu wand or kc please.

You're asking for a bit much. Perdu Wand is free, everyone should have one if you REALLY want it. Also with weaponskills, you can't have it all. You either want MP drain with shit damage, or good damage with no MP drain.

You're kind of requesting something like "RDM should get manafont to go along with their chainspell".

[arus2001]

Eh, RDMs wanting something doesn't automatically equate to all other jobs should get the shaft. Of course, the caveat of RDM/BST is they must've leveled BST first, too.

On the whole, not all RDMs solo. Either they're incapable, don't care to, or refuse to due to the stigma that influence the "you don't deserve nuffin'!" crowd. There are honestly a few ways SE could curtail the insane RDM solos. Rage was one. Gravity resistance was another. A bit curious why they haven't touched Bind, though. That's usually the big one if you can't movement speed DoT/Kite.

Some pine for a melee update to help the job fit more into theme much more often instead of just jacking around solo or in skill up parties. It's not much different than SMNs not wanting to be WHMs, I guess. Still, there's some merit to what Isi was saying earlier about how if SE meant RDM to be the pinnacle enfeebler or something, there's a definite better way to go about it than how they have.

[MaachaQ]

Hey, for once it's not on a day that conflicts w/ my Assault. And pretty short notice on the update

>< It won't conflict with my assault, but we're gonna need to gather a day early to wipe my 100 disc and get our guaranteed hat. Most people seem to agree that the 100% hat drop is not going to carry over since that was a reward for losing your disc, and you don't lose your disc forever anymore...

We figured we had at least a week before the update, this is really short notice...

[LD]

I dunno what you people are talking about with this short notice crap, they usually don't announce this until Saturday.

[Shassira]

I understand why people are considering this 100% drop rate to be removed, but as I understand this, you get the sure drop for transforming your runic disc into a key and thus it's something that can only happen once per player. This could easily be carried over to the new system where your key retains the ability to warp you to any floor.

The difference would reside basicly in the fact that you can get 6 people with a full disc in just one climb, but i would assume that winning floor 100 would also make those 6 people register and get them their key, hence destroying the chance of getting six head pieces at 100%.

Assuming this is right, it means that if you want to keep a disc, you'll have to make someone warp out, just like you used to have.

It does "devaluate" the head pieces in the sense that you can secure a couple drops while still keeping the ability to hit any floor, but it's not so different from the old deal.

[Kenai]

Don forget SMN and PUP two other jobs that are also in desprate need of some form of an update to bring them back into the game (well SMN for the most part PUPs never really been part of the endgame scene.)

In fact the jobs that are needing the most adjustments are the pet jobs in total yes even DRG to some respects. Because when you think about it DRG is basically a diffrent version of a WAR with a pet.

Its just the way pets work in this game in general that needs fixing also. PUP overall needs "something" to get it into the real endgame scene. SMN has seen a major decline in the past few months due to everyone have a much more useful job with SMN really being only useful for select fights. BST is basically an aged version of a PUP in terms of needing something for the endgame scene but they have been able to deal with it slightly better then they have (Go go TheFlock.) DRG is a solid DD overall and very good damage but its wyvern just doesnt feel like it gives alot sometimes.

Thats just my opinion though because ive meet some people that swear SMN does not need an update outside of new avatars.

I agree for the most part about the pet jobs, specifically PUP and BST. SMN isn't used very much but I honestly think since E. Siphon came out it hasn't been too bad, as long as new avatars show up with goodies on them. SMNs were almost always a niche job, but where they shine they are (almost) irreplacable. I would like more fights where they are useful though, it's mostly certain NMs and some assaults.

My main beef with PUP right now is the puppet's A.I. and Activate timer. The timer is far too long and the puppet dying early is basically a 10-15 min weakness timer for the PUP. it's especially annoying since the puppet is deactivated whever you go into any capped area, or anything like a BCNM, Assault or Salvage. 20 fucking minutes. And yes, Fellow A.I is much better than Automaton A.I, they buff themselves as well as you, can easily be set up to WS and skillchain (easier than an auto anyway), and even take hits better overall, sadly. The puppet's actual hits and WSes are quite good, and it has access to a wide variety of powerful unique WSes, spells, and abilities, but it seems like for every plus there's two or three things holding it back. I love my PUP and can't wait to parse it after I finish my usukane/enkidu/nyzle relic set, but as far as HNMs go I usually can't be bothered as is, as long as that timer and A.I. stays in the way. I would also like to see the Activate timer reset if the PUP itself died.

BST is a whole other can of worms, but mine is only 67 so I'll leave it alone.

One of the main problems i see with pets in general is that unlike other pt members, BRD songs, Haste spells, COR rolls, and whatever usually don't affect pets, and if they do they are specifically for pets, and are ignored in favor of overall more useful abilites. That leaves pet's damage as much harder to improve, and the other stuff that would improve them, gear, is very lacking. PUP did get some nice merits to boost their pet, and SMN has recieved decent AFv2 and one or two other gear pieces, but that's it, really. Where's the pet boosts, especially when other jobs can get support buffs, boosts, and incredible endgame gear and such? Who knows. It's funny how SE doesn't mind a lot of jobs being considered broken, but is so scared of a pet being anywhere close.

[Darkanaseur]

This x1000.

arrap ; ;