Should Churches that Push Politics Remain Tax Exempt?

[Saphirea]

I mean, I've never worked for a tax exempt or anything so my knowledge of taxes and organizations is very limited.

I think what you say though is a very good idea though.

[Correction]

That is one of my problems, they remain tax exempt under the premise that they are charitible organizations, while there is really no accounting for the percantages given back to their community, if any amount IS being given back.

I'm certain the overwhelming majority of churches put plenty of what they bring in back into the community, if the churches in my neighborhood are any indication. It's mostly the megachurch televangelists who are real crooks and bring a bad name to church charity.

Some types of charitable organizations are only legally required to disburse 5% of their investment capital, so I'd look somewhere other than the local church if I were to start wildly pointing fingers and crying 'omg they're charitable organizations but how much do they really help?'

[Tyche]

They may have just been using the facility. In some areas, that might be the best venue in terms of seating capacity/parking/whatever. Or the best that's available.

The article is talking more about pastors getting up and telling their congregations to vote for a particular candidate. That's more than renting out the building.

No, this isn't the case. McCain/Obama had a discussion in a church forum with church patrons asking questions on issues that have strong religious links (i.e. stuff about abortion and such.)

[Neosutra]

I'm certain the overwhelming majority of churches put plenty of what they bring in back into the community, if the churches in my neighborhood are any indication. It's mostly the megachurch televangelists who are real crooks and bring a bad name to church charity.

Some types of charitable organizations are only legally required to disburse 5% of their investment capital, so I'd look somewhere other than the local church if I were to start wildly pointing fingers and crying 'omg they're charitable organizations but how much do they really help?'

Your certain.

Certainly wrong.

[Correction]

Yeah, my local pastors live in solid gold houses, wear tuxedos and drive rocket cars. They certainly don't run soup kitchens, run food banks or do toy/food giveaways during holidays.

Yup you guys sure have nothing but facts to back up your intimations that church-run charity is just pouring money into bureaucratic expense without giving back to the community.

[Demosthenes11]

community churches prop a lot of communities up and do tons of great things. Just because most of you don't agree with religion doesn't change that fact.

Shouldn't even be a tax that we are talking about

[Shuemue]

Most churches do a great job of ploughing the vast majority of donations back into the community in the UK. I can't comment on the US side with authority, but the impression the media has given me is that it's pretty different there.

I think Maxx summed up my view very nicely, and I don't think that the people who genuinely need the tax breaks for charitable work would have any major objection to being accountable for where the money goes.

[Shuemue]

community churches prop a lot of communities up and do tons of great things. Just because most of you don't agree with religion doesn't change that fact.

Shouldn't even be a tax that we are talking about

It absolutely should be discussed and regulated. I'm sure Neosutra and those agreeing with his views would throw their full support behind organisations that are accountable and as non-political as possible.

[Rigor]

Do Firefighters, Police, and Ambulances respond to emergencies at the said church? I don't care if its a relatively small tax, they should have to pay for public services like everyone else.

Christians need to get off their high horse, you aren't the only people who help their fellow man, and morals and being christian or believing in God are not mutually exclusive.
Until Christianity gets the fuck out of my government then the government shouldn't get out of Churches.

[terranova]

I think, if you stick your nose where it doesn't belong, you're to get some kind of penalty.

That said.. tax the Churches.

[Demosthenes11]

Do Firefighters, Police, and Ambulances respond to emergencies at the said church? I don't care if its a relatively small tax, they should have to pay for public services like everyone else.

Christians need to get off their high horse, you aren't the only people who help their fellow man, and morals and being christian or believing in God are not mutually exclusive.
Until Christianity gets the fuck out of my government then the government shouldn't get out of Churches.

because christian churches are the only one that get tax breaks? Irrational hatred of christians much?

[Rigor]

Oh sorry, should have said: "Do Firefighters, Police, and Ambulances respond to emergencies at said Church, Temple, and/or Mosque?"

More like a rational hatred of Christianity, not Christians. There's a difference.

[Tyche]

My company is tax exempt....that was the point.

[Beckwin]

charitable activities don't need to be taxed in any instance, but there should be some distinction drawn between a humble community church that operates a soup kitchen or shelter or w/e and the pompous megachurches with hueg parking lots and marquees as big as any billboard you see on the freeway.

I get the feeling Neosutra knows the kind I'm talking about; they're really numerous in the Valley (phoenix metro area).

[Mizango]

My particular situation is a bit personal, I went to my mother and to my fathers church respectively after the funeral because they "offered" it. They literally made me jump through hoops, beg and pester just to help pay for my little brothers tuition. He was dropped into my lap basically when he was 15 and they told me they expected to have the money back, when he got enrolled and got spare money in our pockets.

WTF? My mother attended her Church for 23 years before moving to Charlotte where she met my Dad, who attended his church for the following 20+ years. Yet I was being pestered and given shit about a measly 500.00 dollars for tuition for a 15 year old sibling? I mean sweet jesus, my parents put 100 fold that into their respective churches. Now I know not all churches are like this, I am speaking from personal experience. No tax, each had well over 1000 members each but I got no sympathy or understanding for my situation.

Nevermind the Deacon driving a Mercedes and his wife a Jaguar. The Pastor and his fleet of Cadillacs etc.... I mean, I am not trying to lump all churches into one group but from my POV they are all shady, money hungry goblins. I dealt with 2 separate churches in 2 separate states and was basically told in an indirect way to go fuck myself.

They should tax them all to hell. Pun intended.

[Neosutra]

charitable activities don't need to be taxed in any instance, but there should be some distinction drawn between a humble community church that operates a soup kitchen or shelter or w/e and the pompous megachurches with hueg parking lots and marquees as big as any billboard you see on the freeway.

I get the feeling Neosutra knows the kind I'm talking about; they're really numerous in the Valley (phoenix metro area).

Yes indeed.

When taking a look at just where the money goes for most churches:

You have basic operations costs (electricity, water, flyers).
Preacher/other staff salaries.
Expansion costs (hey lets build a bigger church next door!).

Of the churches I see around here, very very little goes to legit charitible causes (a few catholic soup kitchens, some pro bono support for battered wives Ive seen in the area, even though their main goal is just to recruit through these events).

A VERY small amount of most churches funds go back to the community for anything I would call charity. Even the church hospitals operate as a normal hospital and take their other sources of income from government grants and patient donations. What exactly does the church do to earn tax exemption again?

[Saphirea]

Yes indeed.

When taking a look at just where the money goes for most churches:

You have basic operations costs (electricity, water, flyers).
Preacher/other staff salaries.
Expansion costs (hey lets build a bigger church next door!).

Of the churches I see around here, very very little goes to legit charitible causes (a few catholic soup kitchens, some pro bono support for battered wives Ive seen in the area, even though their main goal is just to recruit through these events).

A VERY small amount of most churches funds go back to the community for anything I would call charity. Even the church hospitals operate as a normal hospital and take their other sources of income from government grants and patient donations. What exactly does the church do to earn tax exemption again?

My church's St. Vincent De Paul society gave away almost 2k in cash last month to people. Food stamps, food and clothing. That was just last month. Priests are different from Ministers in that most in that they don't get a pay check or stuff. They take vow's of poverty for a reason. And like the car they drive is the parish's car not their own. Bought so they can minister to the sick in hospitals and home bound.

[Correction]

Preacher/other staff salaries.

Most of the people who 'work' at a church (at least, at any of the churches near where I live) besides the pastor are volunteers. So lucky you your charitable contributions don't go to lining old Mrs. Farnworth's pockets.

[Beckwin]

St. Vincent's in Arizona has been doing a lot of good charity work for years. A lot of churches do a lot of honest-to-goodness fantastic charity work. But then you see buildings like this:

http://www.phoenixfirstassembly.com/...t_Assembly.jpg

and wonder why it's tax exempt.

[Andarvi]

My church's St. Vincent De Paul society gave away almost 2k in cash last month to people. Food stamps, food and clothing. That was just last month. Priests are different from Ministers in that most in that they don't get a pay check or stuff. They take vow's of poverty for a reason. And like the car they drive is the parish's car not their own. Bought so they can minister to the sick in hospitals and home bound.

I didn't know you couldn't get to the church in anything less of a mercedes/jaguar. Regardless of how one tries to defend a minister driving a luxury car, it is hypocritical to say the least. Priests may take a vow of poverty but all Christian sects acknowledge the necessity to help the poor. When you are the leader of your church community, responsible for living this lifestyle to set an example for everyone else, and are driving a $30k+ car, you are a hypocrite who is slightly full of shit. Also, while priests may take the vow of poverty and many live it, for Catholicism at least, I have always found it cute that the pope, ie. the closest person to god on the planet, the direct descendant of Peter, lives in a mini-city that not only in itself is worth a gaziliion dollars but also in its land holdings and assets around the world. The pope should be the utmost symbol of taking the vow of poverty yet wears only the finest clothes/jewelry and lives in a ridiculous place.

In essence, tax those damn churches, and perhaps institute some sort of refund based on their proven charitable donations.