Absolute Virtue ~ 9/8/08

[Max™]

Having done enough Kirin zergs, I've seen half ass B-group melees dole out the 60k needed in 30-60 seconds.

I would expect you'll want to dump the damage as fast as possible, but Kclubs aren't the only way to zerg.

I'm looking forward to seeing a "normal" zerg group give it a shot.

[Uubu]

has anyone tried any out of the box ideas... like curing AV...

Also if anyone tried AV and fails in the coming days would be nice to see how well garuda would do damage wise vs his regen ..

[HadesChubbs]

Having done enough Kirin zergs, I've seen half ass B-group melees dole out the 60k needed in 30-60 seconds.

I would expect you'll want to dump the damage as fast as possible, but Kclubs aren't the only way to zerg.

I'm looking forward to seeing a "normal" zerg group give it a shot.

Its been stated many times, his eva is too high, and normal mele just do crap damage compared to drk

[Belkin]

Normal zerg damage is poopdick, I assure you. One of the SAMs said their 300 TP gekko did like 350 damage or something. RNG MIGHT be a little better, but I think any other zerg aside from a full blown DRK zerg would be useless.

[Vaskel]

After watching the video.. and what someone said about T1 nukes... got me thinking.. I think i seen a rdm and pld tanking? Try hitting it w/ En spells... see if that keeps the regen lowered.. if it does RDM/SCH aoe Enspell would be pretty effective for a DD.

[Max™]

The sams on Kirin zergs these days don't do zomgawesome damage either.

The point is, throw 10-15 multi-bard soul voiced 300% TP DD's at something, let the fireworks start, and shit falls down.

Toss in angons, feints, dia, tomahawk, whatever. The new nyzul wses, all that noise.

4000 Dmg between 15 DD's in 60 seconds.

[korgie]

After watching the video.. and what someone said about T1 nukes... got me thinking.. I think i seen a rdm and pld tanking? Try hitting it w/ En spells... see if that keeps the regen lowered.. if it does RDM/SCH aoe Enspell would be pretty effective for a DD.

rdm was using a staff, 0 staff skill on rdm/nin

[Flight_93]

has anyone tried any out of the box ideas... like curing AV...

Also if anyone tried AV and fails in the coming days would be nice to see how well garuda would do damage wise vs his regen ..

Why are these threads ALWAYS wanker-magnets. always.

[Kaslo]

After watching the video.. and what someone said about T1 nukes... got me thinking.. I think i seen a rdm and pld tanking? Try hitting it w/ En spells... see if that keeps the regen lowered.. if it does RDM/SCH aoe Enspell would be pretty effective for a DD.

rdm/sch can't aoe enspells

[HadesChubbs]

The sams on Kirin zergs these days don't do zomgawesome damage either.

The point is, throw 10-15 multi-bard soul voiced 300% TP DD's at something, let the fireworks start, and shit falls down.

Toss in angons, feints, dia, tomahawk, whatever. The new nyzul wses, all that noise.

4000 Dmg between 15 DD's in 60 seconds.

you're comparing 10DRK to 10 normal DD? I'm sorry but its just not happening. not in 60s

[Therin]

Max - a good WAR can do a 2500 Steel Cyclone to open up on Kirin. On AV, the same WS would be lucky to do 800, and then your next WS is only going to have 100% TP.

I don't think you understand quite the magnitude of AV's defensive strengths. Not only is his evasion high (this isn't a big deal, as Soul Voice madrigals can overcome plenty of evasion), but his defense is probably the highest of anything in the game, short of Jailer of Fortitude.

What you're suggesting is basically like trying to melee zerg Aspidochelone. It's just not going to do a whole lot. <_>

I would wager that a full non-DRK melee zerg would probably be able to drop it from 100 -> 59% before it got it's 79% Meteor off, but dropping it from 59% to 19% before it used it would be the hard part. You'd likely wipe in the low 50's or high 40's.

[Muramasa]

02-08-08

Spoiler: show

[18:42:42] Awpticle starts casting Thundaga III on the Aern's Wynav C.
[18:42:43] Mitia starts casting Thundaga III on the Aern's Wynav A.
[18:42:43] Dzyne starts casting Blizzaga III on the Aern's Wynav C.
[18:42:43] Chubbs starts casting Thundaga III on the Aern's Wynav C.
[18:42:43] Spoof starts casting Blizzaga III on the Aern's Wynav B.
[18:42:44] Yoshihiro starts casting Blizzaga III on the Aern's Wynav B.
[18:42:44] Nolimit starts casting Blizzaga III on the Aern's Wynav C.
[18:42:44] Akuma starts casting Thundaga III on the Aern's Wynav C.
[18:42:45] Skibear starts casting Haste on Skibear.
[18:42:45] Stanislav starts casting Flash on Absolute Virtue.
[18:42:45] Pandaru starts casting Blizzaga III on the Aern's Wynav B.
[18:42:46] Stanislav casts Flash.
[18:42:46] Absolute Virtue is blinded.
[18:42:47] Skibear casts Haste.
[18:42:47] Skibear gains the effect of Haste.
[18:42:49] Nephilim casts Blink.
[18:42:49] Nephilim gains the effect of Blink.
[18:42:49] 1 of Stanislav's shadows absorbs the damage and disappears.
[18:42:50] Yoshihiro casts Blizzaga III.
[18:42:50] The Aern's Wynav B takes 717 points of damage.
[18:42:50] The Aern's Wynav C takes 717 points of damage.
[18:42:50] The Aern's Wynav A takes 717 points of damage.
[18:42:50] 1 of Stanislav's shadows absorbs the damage and disappears.
[18:42:50] 1 of Stanislav's shadows absorbs the damage and disappears.
[18:42:50] Akuma casts Thundaga III.
[18:42:50] The Aern's Wynav C takes 665 points of damage.
[18:42:50] The Aern's Wynav B takes 665 points of damage.
[18:42:50] The Aern's Wynav A takes 665 points of damage.
[18:42:51] The Aern's Wynav C readies Lightning Breath.
[18:42:51] Stanislav starts casting Utsusemi: Ni on Stanislav.
[18:42:52] The Aern's Wynav A readies Flame Breath.
[18:42:52] The Aern's Wynav B readies Hydro Breath.
[18:42:52] Skibear starts casting Refresh on Nephilim.
[18:42:52] Pandaru casts Blizzaga III.
[18:42:52] The Aern's Wynav B takes 701 points of damage.
[18:42:52] The Aern's Wynav C takes 701 points of damage.
[18:42:52] The Aern's Wynav A takes 701 points of damage.
[18:42:53] Dzyne casts Blizzaga III.
[18:42:53] The Aern's Wynav C takes 656 points of damage.
[18:42:53] The Aern's Wynav B takes 656 points of damage.
[18:42:53] The Aern's Wynav A takes 656 points of damage.
[18:42:53] Absolute Virtue hits Stanislav for 88 points of damage.
[18:42:53] Spoof casts Blizzaga III.
[18:42:53] The Aern's Wynav B takes 590 points of damage.
[18:42:53] The Aern's Wynav C takes 590 points of damage.
[18:42:53] The Aern's Wynav A takes 590 points of damage.
[18:42:53] Chubbs starts casting Blizzaga II on the Aern's Wynav C.
[18:42:53] Dzyne starts casting Blizzaga II on the Aern's Wynav B.
[18:42:53] Chubbs casts Thundaga III.
[18:42:53] The Aern's Wynav C takes 612 points of damage.
[18:42:53] The Aern's Wynav B takes 612 points of damage.
[18:42:53] The Aern's Wynav A takes 612 points of damage.
[18:42:53] Awpticle casts Thundaga III.
[18:42:53] The Aern's Wynav C takes 624 points of damage.
[18:42:54] The Aern's Wynav B takes 624 points of damage.
[18:42:54] The Aern's Wynav A takes 624 points of damage.
[18:42:54] Cli starts casting Flash on Absolute Virtue.
[18:42:54] Nolimit casts Blizzaga III.
[18:42:54] The Aern's Wynav C takes 535 points of damage.
[18:42:54] The Aern's Wynav B takes 535 points of damage.
[18:42:54] The Aern's Wynav A takes 535 points of damage.
[18:42:55] Mitia casts Thundaga III.
[18:42:55] The Aern's Wynav A takes 578 points of damage.
[18:42:55] The Aern's Wynav C takes 578 points of damage.
[18:42:55] The Aern's Wynav B takes 578 points of damage.
[18:42:55] Pandaru starts casting Blizzaga II on the Aern's Wynav C.
[18:42:56] 1 of Stanislav's shadows absorbs the damage and disappears.
[18:42:56] Akuma starts casting Thundaga II on the Aern's Wynav C.
[18:42:56] Mosvani starts casting Refresh on Urdus.
[18:42:56] Skibear casts Refresh.
[18:42:56] Nephilim gains the effect of Refresh.
[18:42:57] Nolimit starts casting Blizzaga II on the Aern's Wynav C.
[18:42:57] The Aern's Wynav B uses Hydro Breath.
[18:42:57] Yoshihiro takes 0 points of damage.
[18:42:57] Awpticle starts casting Thundaga on the Aern's Wynav C.
[18:42:57] The Aern's Wynav C uses Lightning Breath.
[18:42:57] Yoshihiro takes 0 points of damage.
[18:42:57] Wabubu starts casting Mage's Ballad on Wabubu.
[18:42:57] The Aern's Wynav A uses Flame Breath.
[18:42:57] Yoshihiro takes 0 points of damage.
[18:42:57] Awpticle takes 12 points of damage.
[18:42:57] Mitia takes 0 points of damage.
[18:42:58] Mitia takes 0 points of damage.
[18:42:58] Stanislav casts Utsusemi: Ni.
[18:42:58] Stanislav gains the effect of Copy Image.
[18:42:58] Cli casts Flash.
[18:42:58] Absolute Virtue is blinded.
[18:42:58] Mitia takes 0 points of damage.
[18:42:59] 1 of Stanislav's shadows absorbs the damage and disappears.
[18:43:00] Doshu starts casting Flash on Absolute Virtue.
[18:43:01] Awpticle's casting is interrupted.
[18:43:01] Chubbs casts Blizzaga II.
[18:43:01] The Aern's Wynav C takes 403 points of damage.
[18:43:01] The Aern's Wynav B takes 403 points of damage.
[18:43:01] The Aern's Wynav A takes 403 points of damage.
[18:43:01] Dzyne casts Blizzaga II.
[18:43:01] The Aern's Wynav B takes 401 points of damage.
[18:43:01] The Aern's Wynav C takes 401 points of damage.
[18:43:01] The Aern's Wynav A takes 401 points of damage.
[18:43:02] 1 of Stanislav's shadows absorbs the damage and disappears.
[18:43:02] Dzyne defeats the Aern's Wynav B.
[18:43:02] Dzyne defeats the Aern's Wynav C.
[18:43:02] Dzyne defeats the Aern's Wynav A.
[18:43:02] Cli starts casting Cure III on Stanislav.
[18:43:04] Mosvani casts Refresh.
[18:43:04] Urdus gains the effect of Refresh.
[18:43:04] Doshu casts Flash.
[18:43:04] Absolute Virtue is blinded.
[18:43:04] Stanislav starts casting Utsusemi: Ichi on Stanislav.
[18:43:05] Absolute Virtue hits Stanislav for 321 points of damage.
[18:43:06] Mosvani starts casting Stoneskin on Mosvani.
[18:43:08] Wabubu casts Mage's Ballad.
[18:43:08] Wabubu gains the effect of Ballad.
[18:43:08] Mosvani gains the effect of Ballad.
[18:43:08] Legend gains the effect of Ballad.
[18:43:08] 1 of Cli's shadows absorbs the damage and disappears.
[18:43:08] Nephilim starts casting Cure III on Stanislav.
[18:43:08] Doshu starts casting Cure IV on Stanislav.
[18:43:08] Urdus gains the effect of Ballad.
[18:43:09] Wabubu starts casting Mage's Ballad II on Wabubu.
[18:43:10] Cli casts Cure III.
[18:43:10] Stanislav recovers 193 HP.
[18:43:10] Dzyne starts casting Stoneskin on Dzyne.
[18:43:11] 1 of Stanislav's shadows absorbs the damage and disappears.
[18:43:11] Urdus starts casting Utsusemi: Ni on Urdus.
[18:43:11] Yoshihiro starts casting Stoneskin on Yoshihiro.
[18:43:12] Skibear starts casting Refresh on Stanislav.
[18:43:12] Stanislav casts Utsusemi: Ichi.
[18:43:12] Stanislav gains the effect of Copy Image.
[18:43:13] Cli starts casting Cure III on Stanislav.
[18:43:14] Mosvani casts Stoneskin.
[18:43:14] Mosvani gains the effect of Stoneskin.
[18:43:15] Nephilim casts Cure III.
[18:43:15] Stanislav recovers 242 HP.
[18:43:15] Absolute Virtue uses Manafont.
[18:43:15] Doshu casts Cure IV.
[18:43:15] Stanislav recovers 69 HP.
[18:43:16] 1 of Stanislav's shadows absorbs the damage and disappears.
[18:43:16] Skibear casts Refresh.
[18:43:16] Stanislav gains the effect of Refresh.
[18:43:17] Urdus casts Utsusemi: Ni.
[18:43:17] Urdus gains the effect of Copy Image.
[18:43:18] Mitia uses Manafont.
[18:43:19] Dzyne casts Stoneskin.
[18:43:19] Dzyne gains the effect of Stoneskin.
[18:43:19] 1 of Cli's shadows absorbs the damage and disappears.
[18:43:20] Wabubu casts Mage's Ballad II.
[18:43:20] Wabubu gains the effect of Ballad.
[18:43:20] Urdus gains the effect of Ballad.
[18:43:20] Cli casts Cure III.
[18:43:20] Stanislav recovers 0 HP.
[18:43:20] Mosvani gains the effect of Ballad.
[18:43:20] Legend gains the effect of Ballad.
[18:43:21] Yoshihiro casts Stoneskin.
[18:43:21] Yoshihiro gains the effect of Stoneskin.
[18:43:21] Cli uses Rampart.
[18:43:21] Cli gains the effect of Defense Boost.
[18:43:21] Weisheit gains the effect of Defense Boost.
[18:43:21] Stanislav gains the effect of Defense Boost.
[18:43:21] Absolute Virtue starts casting Meteor.
[18:43:23] Absolute Virtue casts Meteor.
[18:43:23] Cli takes 0 points of damage.
[18:43:23] Mindgames takes 2154 points of damage.
[18:43:24] Skibear takes 1458 points of damage.
[18:43:24] Akuma takes 0 points of damage.
[18:43:24] Cli starts casting Utsusemi: Ni on Cli.
[18:43:24] Wabubu takes 1361 points of damage.
[18:43:24] Weisheit takes 1225 points of damage.
[18:43:24] Nolimit takes 1732 points of damage.
[18:43:24] Nephilim takes 1146 points of damage.
[18:43:24] Mitia takes 1450 points of damage.
[18:43:24] Mosvani takes 1168 points of damage.
[18:43:24] Mogomra takes 2515 points of damage.
[18:43:24] Weisheit was defeated by Absolute Virtue.
[18:43:24] Nolimit was defeated by Absolute Virtue.
[18:43:24] Nephilim was defeated by Absolute Virtue.
[18:43:24] Mitia was defeated by Absolute Virtue.
[18:43:24] Mosvani was defeated by Absolute Virtue.
[18:43:24] Mogomra was defeated by Absolute Virtue.
[18:43:24] Xvyn was defeated by Absolute Virtue.
[18:43:24] Krackle was defeated by Absolute Virtue.
[18:43:25] Xvyn takes 2512 points of damage.
[18:43:25] Krackle takes 2062 points of damage.
[18:43:25] Absolute Virtue hits Cli for 75 points of damage.
[18:43:25] Stanislav takes 859 points of damage.
[18:43:25] Doshu takes 1179 points of damage.
[18:43:25] Mindgames was defeated by Absolute Virtue.
[18:43:25] Skibear was defeated by Absolute Virtue.
[18:43:25] Wabubu was defeated by Absolute Virtue.

So yeah.. before this recent patch, although really those 'speed' comments came from before the patch as well.

Hay I is in that =o

good times.

[Max™]

I'm mostly saying that you should be able to find a balance between "Omg, need moar kc drks" to "well, we can make up for only having one or two kc's with more melee's zerging" and move to "hell, let's just throw more melees at it"...

I know he has silly high Def, Fort has damage resistance btw.


When you look at it though, it's 4000 Dmg per person for 15 people, if two or three are doing 9000, then that just reduces what the others need to do.

[docviciouss]

Why is it everyone seems to be forgetting that a normal zerg would not work because of AV Mechanics. Zerg full of bone heads WS and using JA would own your tanks and your alliance with 2hr spam and WS spam. Due to using JA and WS on the wrong elemental day thus triggering it. From what I got from the video the JA's and 2hrs were used prior to attacking, thus limiting that factor to a minimum. Well thought out if I say. Only reason Kracken zerg works most of the time is because they won't be using any other JA or WS while fighting.

[Max™]

*zergs Doc so he shuts the fuck up*

The reason the krakeneater works is because of the speed causing AV to stutter, not because people aren't using JA's.

[Virtuous Saint]

Why is it everyone seems to be forgetting that a normal zerg would not work because of AV Mechanics. Zerg full of bone heads WS and using JA would own your tanks and your alliance with 2hr spam and WS spam. Due to using JA and WS on the wrong elemental day thus triggering it. From what I got from the video the JA's and 2hrs were used prior to attacking, thus limiting that factor to a minimum. Well thought out if I say. Only reason Kracken zerg works most of the time is because they won't be using any other JA or WS while fighting.

Moron

[Belkin]

Job abilities and WS's have nothing to do with how it behaves, I'll pretty much lay that out there right now.

[LakshmiToralyn]

it works because he died 30 seconds after they first hit him including being AOE stunned for 5 seconds of that, not lack of JAs and WS

[Therin]

I'm mostly saying that you should be able to find a balance between "Omg, need moar kc drks" to "well, we can make up for only having one or two kc's with more melee's zerging" and move to "hell, let's just throw more melees at it"...

I know he has silly high Def, Fort has damage resistance btw.


When you look at it though, it's 4000 Dmg per person for 15 people, if two or three are doing 9000, then that just reduces what the others need to do.

As you can see from the parse, only three of their DRKs did 9,000, the others (using M.Kris or Ridill) were much lower.

If you're looking for a replacement for Krakens, you should look for those. Other possibilities would include MNK/DRK, and possibly RNGs, but that also seems unlikely. RDMs could Chainspell cure a MNK/DRK using Faith knuckles for quite a bit of damage, I bet.

[Max™]

You see in the zergs, he goes:

"Oh shit, 79% I should do this!"
"Fuck! 50%! I need to do this!"
"GOD DAMMIT! 39%! I need to change behavior again!"
"DAMN! HOW COME I KEEP DYING BEFORE THEY DO!"