Absolute Virtue ~ 9/8/08

[LakshmiToralyn]

Just a thought, would Tomahawk eliminate the danger of Invincible?

[Max™]

Don't think so.

Again though, when you start talking about Mnk/Drk's and non-Kclub Drk's, other melees go from being zomginferior like they are vs Kclub, to cheap alternatives.

If it bleeds, etc.

Could be a hell of a use for King's Justice, if it damages him like he is weak to it. :D

[fndragon]

You have to be inbetween the range. Under 1000 damage per minute you get raped. Over 2000 damage per minute you get raped. Have to find the happy medium.

I don't know. I don't think this is it due to the variety of factors (time especially) involved. Is this defined as damage per minute, or damage since the last 2-hour ability? If per minute, do you still need to cast elemental magic to keep his regen down, even if it means going over 2000? What happens if you pop AV with only 30 minutes until he depops?

I think my addendum to the above statement is: "Between 1000 damage per minute and 2000 damage per minute, studies have shown that you get raped as well".

I guess my biggest concern is testability. There are millions of ways for this to go wrong; If he starts manafonting and meteoring you can say you did too little damage, if he starts manafonting and meteoring you can say you did too much damage. If he starts manafonting and meteoring you can say you were using the wrong elemental spells. If he starts manafonting and meteoring you can say your tanks weren't rdm/nin using earth staffs facing southwest during full moon...

You said you tried testing this, but had problems due to wiping: How much damage per minute were you doing? When did things go wrong? It's not always 100% due to bad strategy; Sometimes you just get bad luck with AV 2hour selection. But if that's the case one bad break can cause tanks to wipe, hate to get crazy, and your DOT to get off track.

Seriously, though, I don't mean to pee in your cheerios, Belkin, but I think you're on the wrong track with this 1000-2000 damageometer. Not that I doubt the upper end can be programmed in (see Daidesonne, or whatever that Behemoth's name is), but that the lower end is actually the AI's condition to "not rage". If you can prove that he doesn't use the "game over" moves by staying within a set DPM, more power to you, but I don't think it's the correct answer, especially with all the variables up in the air.

[JackDaniels]

The sams on Kirin zergs these days don't do zomgawesome damage either.

The point is, throw 10-15 multi-bard soul voiced 300% TP DD's at something, let the fireworks start, and shit falls down.

Toss in angons, feints, dia, tomahawk, whatever. The new nyzul wses, all that noise.

4000 Dmg between 15 DD's in 60 seconds.

Their normal melees struggled to break 1k for the entire fight, so good luck doing 4k.

[Tirgen]

02-08-08

Spoiler: show

[18:42:42] Awpticle starts casting Thundaga III on the Aern's Wynav C.
[18:42:43] Mitia starts casting Thundaga III on the Aern's Wynav A.
[18:42:43] Dzyne starts casting Blizzaga III on the Aern's Wynav C.
[18:42:43] Chubbs starts casting Thundaga III on the Aern's Wynav C.
[18:42:43] Spoof starts casting Blizzaga III on the Aern's Wynav B.
[18:42:44] Yoshihiro starts casting Blizzaga III on the Aern's Wynav B.
[18:42:44] Nolimit starts casting Blizzaga III on the Aern's Wynav C.
[18:42:44] Akuma starts casting Thundaga III on the Aern's Wynav C.
[18:42:45] Skibear starts casting Haste on Skibear.
[18:42:45] Stanislav starts casting Flash on Absolute Virtue.
[18:42:45] Pandaru starts casting Blizzaga III on the Aern's Wynav B.
[18:42:46] Stanislav casts Flash.
[18:42:46] Absolute Virtue is blinded.
[18:42:47] Skibear casts Haste.
[18:42:47] Skibear gains the effect of Haste.
[18:42:49] Nephilim casts Blink.
[18:42:49] Nephilim gains the effect of Blink.
[18:42:49] 1 of Stanislav's shadows absorbs the damage and disappears.
[18:42:50] Yoshihiro casts Blizzaga III.
[18:42:50] The Aern's Wynav B takes 717 points of damage.
[18:42:50] The Aern's Wynav C takes 717 points of damage.
[18:42:50] The Aern's Wynav A takes 717 points of damage.
[18:42:50] 1 of Stanislav's shadows absorbs the damage and disappears.
[18:42:50] 1 of Stanislav's shadows absorbs the damage and disappears.
[18:42:50] Akuma casts Thundaga III.
[18:42:50] The Aern's Wynav C takes 665 points of damage.
[18:42:50] The Aern's Wynav B takes 665 points of damage.
[18:42:50] The Aern's Wynav A takes 665 points of damage.
[18:42:51] The Aern's Wynav C readies Lightning Breath.
[18:42:51] Stanislav starts casting Utsusemi: Ni on Stanislav.
[18:42:52] The Aern's Wynav A readies Flame Breath.
[18:42:52] The Aern's Wynav B readies Hydro Breath.
[18:42:52] Skibear starts casting Refresh on Nephilim.
[18:42:52] Pandaru casts Blizzaga III.
[18:42:52] The Aern's Wynav B takes 701 points of damage.
[18:42:52] The Aern's Wynav C takes 701 points of damage.
[18:42:52] The Aern's Wynav A takes 701 points of damage.
[18:42:53] Dzyne casts Blizzaga III.
[18:42:53] The Aern's Wynav C takes 656 points of damage.
[18:42:53] The Aern's Wynav B takes 656 points of damage.
[18:42:53] The Aern's Wynav A takes 656 points of damage.
[18:42:53] Absolute Virtue hits Stanislav for 88 points of damage.
[18:42:53] Spoof casts Blizzaga III.
[18:42:53] The Aern's Wynav B takes 590 points of damage.
[18:42:53] The Aern's Wynav C takes 590 points of damage.
[18:42:53] The Aern's Wynav A takes 590 points of damage.
[18:42:53] Chubbs starts casting Blizzaga II on the Aern's Wynav C.
[18:42:53] Dzyne starts casting Blizzaga II on the Aern's Wynav B.
[18:42:53] Chubbs casts Thundaga III.
[18:42:53] The Aern's Wynav C takes 612 points of damage.
[18:42:53] The Aern's Wynav B takes 612 points of damage.
[18:42:53] The Aern's Wynav A takes 612 points of damage.
[18:42:53] Awpticle casts Thundaga III.
[18:42:53] The Aern's Wynav C takes 624 points of damage.
[18:42:54] The Aern's Wynav B takes 624 points of damage.
[18:42:54] The Aern's Wynav A takes 624 points of damage.
[18:42:54] Cli starts casting Flash on Absolute Virtue.
[18:42:54] Nolimit casts Blizzaga III.
[18:42:54] The Aern's Wynav C takes 535 points of damage.
[18:42:54] The Aern's Wynav B takes 535 points of damage.
[18:42:54] The Aern's Wynav A takes 535 points of damage.
[18:42:55] Mitia casts Thundaga III.
[18:42:55] The Aern's Wynav A takes 578 points of damage.
[18:42:55] The Aern's Wynav C takes 578 points of damage.
[18:42:55] The Aern's Wynav B takes 578 points of damage.
[18:42:55] Pandaru starts casting Blizzaga II on the Aern's Wynav C.
[18:42:56] 1 of Stanislav's shadows absorbs the damage and disappears.
[18:42:56] Akuma starts casting Thundaga II on the Aern's Wynav C.
[18:42:56] Mosvani starts casting Refresh on Urdus.
[18:42:56] Skibear casts Refresh.
[18:42:56] Nephilim gains the effect of Refresh.
[18:42:57] Nolimit starts casting Blizzaga II on the Aern's Wynav C.
[18:42:57] The Aern's Wynav B uses Hydro Breath.
[18:42:57] Yoshihiro takes 0 points of damage.
[18:42:57] Awpticle starts casting Thundaga on the Aern's Wynav C.
[18:42:57] The Aern's Wynav C uses Lightning Breath.
[18:42:57] Yoshihiro takes 0 points of damage.
[18:42:57] Wabubu starts casting Mage's Ballad on Wabubu.
[18:42:57] The Aern's Wynav A uses Flame Breath.
[18:42:57] Yoshihiro takes 0 points of damage.
[18:42:57] Awpticle takes 12 points of damage.
[18:42:57] Mitia takes 0 points of damage.
[18:42:58] Mitia takes 0 points of damage.
[18:42:58] Stanislav casts Utsusemi: Ni.
[18:42:58] Stanislav gains the effect of Copy Image.
[18:42:58] Cli casts Flash.
[18:42:58] Absolute Virtue is blinded.
[18:42:58] Mitia takes 0 points of damage.
[18:42:59] 1 of Stanislav's shadows absorbs the damage and disappears.
[18:43:00] Doshu starts casting Flash on Absolute Virtue.
[18:43:01] Awpticle's casting is interrupted.
[18:43:01] Chubbs casts Blizzaga II.
[18:43:01] The Aern's Wynav C takes 403 points of damage.
[18:43:01] The Aern's Wynav B takes 403 points of damage.
[18:43:01] The Aern's Wynav A takes 403 points of damage.
[18:43:01] Dzyne casts Blizzaga II.
[18:43:01] The Aern's Wynav B takes 401 points of damage.
[18:43:01] The Aern's Wynav C takes 401 points of damage.
[18:43:01] The Aern's Wynav A takes 401 points of damage.
[18:43:02] 1 of Stanislav's shadows absorbs the damage and disappears.
[18:43:02] Dzyne defeats the Aern's Wynav B.
[18:43:02] Dzyne defeats the Aern's Wynav C.
[18:43:02] Dzyne defeats the Aern's Wynav A.
[18:43:02] Cli starts casting Cure III on Stanislav.
[18:43:04] Mosvani casts Refresh.
[18:43:04] Urdus gains the effect of Refresh.
[18:43:04] Doshu casts Flash.
[18:43:04] Absolute Virtue is blinded.
[18:43:04] Stanislav starts casting Utsusemi: Ichi on Stanislav.
[18:43:05] Absolute Virtue hits Stanislav for 321 points of damage.
[18:43:06] Mosvani starts casting Stoneskin on Mosvani.
[18:43:08] Wabubu casts Mage's Ballad.
[18:43:08] Wabubu gains the effect of Ballad.
[18:43:08] Mosvani gains the effect of Ballad.
[18:43:08] Legend gains the effect of Ballad.
[18:43:08] 1 of Cli's shadows absorbs the damage and disappears.
[18:43:08] Nephilim starts casting Cure III on Stanislav.
[18:43:08] Doshu starts casting Cure IV on Stanislav.
[18:43:08] Urdus gains the effect of Ballad.
[18:43:09] Wabubu starts casting Mage's Ballad II on Wabubu.
[18:43:10] Cli casts Cure III.
[18:43:10] Stanislav recovers 193 HP.
[18:43:10] Dzyne starts casting Stoneskin on Dzyne.
[18:43:11] 1 of Stanislav's shadows absorbs the damage and disappears.
[18:43:11] Urdus starts casting Utsusemi: Ni on Urdus.
[18:43:11] Yoshihiro starts casting Stoneskin on Yoshihiro.
[18:43:12] Skibear starts casting Refresh on Stanislav.
[18:43:12] Stanislav casts Utsusemi: Ichi.
[18:43:12] Stanislav gains the effect of Copy Image.
[18:43:13] Cli starts casting Cure III on Stanislav.
[18:43:14] Mosvani casts Stoneskin.
[18:43:14] Mosvani gains the effect of Stoneskin.
[18:43:15] Nephilim casts Cure III.
[18:43:15] Stanislav recovers 242 HP.
[18:43:15] Absolute Virtue uses Manafont.
[18:43:15] Doshu casts Cure IV.
[18:43:15] Stanislav recovers 69 HP.
[18:43:16] 1 of Stanislav's shadows absorbs the damage and disappears.
[18:43:16] Skibear casts Refresh.
[18:43:16] Stanislav gains the effect of Refresh.
[18:43:17] Urdus casts Utsusemi: Ni.
[18:43:17] Urdus gains the effect of Copy Image.
[18:43:18] Mitia uses Manafont.
[18:43:19] Dzyne casts Stoneskin.
[18:43:19] Dzyne gains the effect of Stoneskin.
[18:43:19] 1 of Cli's shadows absorbs the damage and disappears.
[18:43:20] Wabubu casts Mage's Ballad II.
[18:43:20] Wabubu gains the effect of Ballad.
[18:43:20] Urdus gains the effect of Ballad.
[18:43:20] Cli casts Cure III.
[18:43:20] Stanislav recovers 0 HP.
[18:43:20] Mosvani gains the effect of Ballad.
[18:43:20] Legend gains the effect of Ballad.
[18:43:21] Yoshihiro casts Stoneskin.
[18:43:21] Yoshihiro gains the effect of Stoneskin.
[18:43:21] Cli uses Rampart.
[18:43:21] Cli gains the effect of Defense Boost.
[18:43:21] Weisheit gains the effect of Defense Boost.
[18:43:21] Stanislav gains the effect of Defense Boost.
[18:43:21] Absolute Virtue starts casting Meteor.
[18:43:23] Absolute Virtue casts Meteor.
[18:43:23] Cli takes 0 points of damage.
[18:43:23] Mindgames takes 2154 points of damage.
[18:43:24] Skibear takes 1458 points of damage.
[18:43:24] Akuma takes 0 points of damage.
[18:43:24] Cli starts casting Utsusemi: Ni on Cli.
[18:43:24] Wabubu takes 1361 points of damage.
[18:43:24] Weisheit takes 1225 points of damage.
[18:43:24] Nolimit takes 1732 points of damage.
[18:43:24] Nephilim takes 1146 points of damage.
[18:43:24] Mitia takes 1450 points of damage.
[18:43:24] Mosvani takes 1168 points of damage.
[18:43:24] Mogomra takes 2515 points of damage.
[18:43:24] Weisheit was defeated by Absolute Virtue.
[18:43:24] Nolimit was defeated by Absolute Virtue.
[18:43:24] Nephilim was defeated by Absolute Virtue.
[18:43:24] Mitia was defeated by Absolute Virtue.
[18:43:24] Mosvani was defeated by Absolute Virtue.
[18:43:24] Mogomra was defeated by Absolute Virtue.
[18:43:24] Xvyn was defeated by Absolute Virtue.
[18:43:24] Krackle was defeated by Absolute Virtue.
[18:43:25] Xvyn takes 2512 points of damage.
[18:43:25] Krackle takes 2062 points of damage.
[18:43:25] Absolute Virtue hits Cli for 75 points of damage.
[18:43:25] Stanislav takes 859 points of damage.
[18:43:25] Doshu takes 1179 points of damage.
[18:43:25] Mindgames was defeated by Absolute Virtue.
[18:43:25] Skibear was defeated by Absolute Virtue.
[18:43:25] Wabubu was defeated by Absolute Virtue.

So yeah.. before this recent patch, although really those 'speed' comments came from before the patch as well.

Notice that you are also casting at least one element from a day other than the current day on him as well.

I personally think there he has several 'modes' and nuking the correct day puts him into a more 'passive' mode, but nuking the wrong element puts him into a more 'aggressive' mode.

Its anecdotal eveidence as I dont have video to back it up, but the DD said damage seemed to go up when his regen was off as well.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Don't think so.

Again though, when you start talking about Mnk/Drk's and non-Kclub Drk's, other melees go from being zomginferior like they are vs Kclub, to cheap alternatives.

If it bleeds, etc.

Could be a hell of a use for King's Justice, if it damages him like he is weak to it. :D

YOU AND YOUR WAR ARE USELESS ON AV, SHUT THE FUCK UP AND DEAL WITH IT


God damn...


Anyways, I don't think DRK sub would be useful at all. No BW and half power = shit.

[Max™]

The Sam said he did a 350 Gekko, suggested he might have done 600~800 if it had Overwhelm on it.

I've watched Sams do similar damage on zerged Kirins, so for some crazy fucking reason, I connected the two in my head.

Amazing concept I know, but why don't you reserve the stupid assumptions til after someone proves you can't throw buffed to the teeth DD's at it and win.

THE MECHANICS OF THE MONSTER WERE CHANGED RECENTLY, AND IT'S STILL BEING TESTED WHAT THE EXTENT OF THIS CHANGE WAS.

Did I imply that I myself would be able to do it even if no one else could? No.

Shut the fuck up with that retarded noise, I was implying that if you could get by with less than ideal zerglings (I.E. not kclub drks, etc), then you could probably get by with fucking ordinary melee zerglings.

[Therin]

Maxx - half damage from MNK/DRK should still be around 100 a hit (assuming 2,000 HP) so with CS Cures and at least 40 hits with Hundred Fists and Faith knuckles, you'd be hitting the 4,000 damage mark. But you'd need a RDM for each MNK, so that's not exactly practical.

[Jaffar]

Elmer needs to ask the JPs what they think of this!

[Maxxthepenguin]

Maxx - half damage from MNK/DRK should still be around 100 a hit (assuming 2,000 HP) so with CS Cures and at least 40 hits with Hundred Fists and Faith knuckles, you'd be hitting the 4,000 damage mark. But you'd need a RDM for each MNK, so that's not exactly practical.

As a last resort, I guess it could, but it seems unlikely to be worthwhile in the face of real souleater. I do think RNGs could be feasible, though, due to them being less affected by level correction. It is likely they would suck, though, and would surely not compare to souleater.

MaxTM, you suggested overwhelm can double WS damage

Just fucking die.

[TB]

The Sam said he did a 350 Gekko, suggested he might have done 600~800 if it had Overwhelm on it.

I've watched Sams do similar damage on zerged Kirins, so for some crazy fucking reason, I connected the two in my head.

I've done various Kirin zergs on SAM and tried a few on AV also on SAM and I can tell you one thing: Playing SAM/WAR on AV feels like poking an elephant with a toothpick. It's so absudly weak, because of AV natural damage reduction.

No, a SAM will never do 4000 DMG on AV in 60seconds.

[Seraph]

MaxTM, you suggested overwhelm can double WS damage

Just fucking die.

Did I say 19%? I meant 119%!

[Demonic]

That's also not factoring in that SAM weaponskills are 1-hit. 300-400 IF you hit, and even then its like... 6-7 so...MAYBE, 1800~ if you're lucky and hit every time. SAM is terrible for AV zerg. :'(

[Therin]

But Danny is awesome for everything. :3

[Demonic]

But Danny is awesome for everything. :3

<3

[Ansems]

Did Stan's LS kill it yet?

[HadesChubbs]

Did Stan's LS kill it yet?

Saturday our next jol, havent tried since first time. gunna zerg until normal strategy found

[Mugekuge]

i went war/sam to av in our second try, my normal hits were doing 27~ damage, my wc sc 300% tp did like 150 and i missed 1 hit, my second sc did 333 at 100% tp, sam were doing 300-400 per ws, sam hits were doing like 15~, kc drk were doing 200+ per hit. You can have an idea, you need drk's for this if you want to zerg.

[Ansems]

I cant wait til Sat then see if you can reclaim yer title as "best ls across severs". ( not saying you were but you guys claim you are)

[Meat]

Not to sound as a fanboy or nothing but i don't think there's much doubt that excellence will kill it.