Absolute Virtue ~ 9/8/08

[ringthree]

It seems most people are upset by the fact that Soul Club is currently the only known way to kill AV. In that case, it makes more sense to argue against SE for making AV's behavior encourage such a strategy rather than argue against the Soul Club method. If you are truly against Soul Club itself (And are just taking advantage of the recent events to vent your frustration) why not just ask SE to give you a buff that allows for the same damage output. It just seems ridiculous to "nerf" the benefits of a ~30-40mil gil item when you can ask SE to make one that gives you the same advantage. Then again, changing the monster's properties could also negate the advantages of Soul Club; after all, you can't Soul Club all NMs in the game.

You are arguing against a strawman. No one is saying that LS's shouldn't kill AV, and most people aren't even suggesting that it should be nerfed. Most people are just saying that they probably are going to nerf it inevitably, so it's better to get in as many kills now as possible, but also to learn as much about the mobs as possible to develop an alternative strategy for when it is nerfed.

[Ploid]

Actually, all we have is speculation. The people that can kill AV now by zerging should try to test how to be it in other ways, because it's pretty much inevitable that SE is going to nerf this. They should also get in as many kills as they can now, while they can.

The way I see it, the people that can zerge it should zerge the crap out of it until SE force them to stop. You don't get this opportunity to kill AV every day. It's been taken away from people more than one time, and it could happen again. You have to treat it like the candy store that don't know it's back door is unlocked at night.

[Motenten]

They wouldn't have to do much to nerf SE/BW on AV. Just add that 'build a resistance' factor. Say for every 1000 damage done with SE there's a 1% reduction in effectiveness. Doesn't seem like much, eh? Wouldn't affect the vast majority of uses in the game, but for AV, in the time it normally would have taken to completely zerg AV with unnerfed SE it would then still have about 20k HP left. Make the fight last just enough longer that you can't count on being able to complete it before running out of zerg steam.

Of course that's just if I were an evil dev... >.>

[Ploid]

I think they should just tell people how AV works. That or put a new NPC in tav that tell a new detailed story about the jailers, and the weakness of av. The weakness would be a detailed and less vague clue on how to kill AV. That or just tell it out like parade gorget. SE isn't the best at giving clues, or anticipating what players will do.

[Skeelo]

They shouldnt nerf SE BW. If they do anything just make AV immune to the drain or something, but still i think its fine. Im sure it can be done without KC's and im sure other things can be done without it. But if your lucky enough to have a KC and have drk why not use it to its full potential. Drk is already kinda gimp dont take the only thing they have away from them. Thats like taking a peircing bonus away from drg, or taking bergressor away from war. i know those examples arent all that comparable but i hope you get what im saying.

[Ploid]

Too bad none of the drops will help you kill av any better than you can without the drops. I mean something to the effect of a arctic wind that the gods in sky drop.

[Severance]

Funny thought.

What if SE wanted us to zerg AV? They spammed their 2HRs in the video. Everyone using their 2HRs at once = Zerg. They just didn't outright show us zerging.

Haha.

[Titanss]

Why is all this shiting on a kc/SE nerf? Is it most ls's are butthurt because they cant kill it/drk manpower? Why aren't all of you QQ'ing over Tia, and Khim then.. For fuck sake most ls's than can kill those mobs can kill AV. Let it be! It's been long enough people deserve these items.

[Correction]

Oh god why are people digging up the nerfbat again, Bagel already locked a thread devoted to that stupid fucking argument.

[Epical]

Keep the garbage replies to yourself and stay on topic please... this thread is on the verge of being closed.

[Drako]

Why is all this shiting on a kc/SE nerf? Is it most ls's are butthurt because they cant kill it/drk manpower? Why aren't all of you QQ'ing over Tia, and Khim then.. For fuck sake most ls's than can kill those mobs can kill AV. Let it be! It's been long enough people deserve these items.

AV is different, you can pop anytime you want, most LSs dont have bots @ tia and khim camps (and other 3-7 days hnms) to know when they pop and run there.

It is bs if the only way to kill it is throwing enough drks with k.clubs.

[Devilschild]

It is bs if the only way to kill it is throwing enough drks with k.clubs.

Word. Not to say that those that have killed it didnt deserve it or anything, but its really lame if this game comes down to which lses have the most gil and bodies to throw at something.

[Ruiner]

Word. Not to say that those that have killed it didnt deserve it or anything, but its really lame if this game comes down to which lses have the most gil and bodies to throw at something.

Wait, you mean the rest of the game isn't like that already?

[Dezzimal]

FFXI Strategy Rough Timline

2003-2005 Ranger Zerg
2005-2006 BLM + SMN Zerg
2006-2007 Kraken DRK Zerg
Mid 2007 - Early 2008 Rune Chopper Zerg
2008-Present Kraken DRK Zerg

Did I miss any popular strategy?

[Darwinion]

Congratulations to the linkshells that have beaten AV. Seriously I mean that. If you have the means to take it down then why not? No matter how it's done. The people in those shells must be really proud and rightly so. I know I would be.

However, my personal opinion is that for the flagship mob of FFXI to be reduced to a zerg fest is a sad day for endgame as a whole. But that's not the linkshells' fault that have beaten it. It's SE's fault. Zerg tactics have always been used for certain mobs. Just I always believed that AV was a very special case that needed a certain "trick" which we never found out. Guess that's all over now eh?

[Ruiner]

However, my personal opinion is that for the flagship mob of FFXI to be reduced to a zerg fest is a sad day for endgame as a whole. But that's not the linkshells' fault that have beaten it. It's SE's fault. Zerg tactics have always been used for certain mobs. Just I always believed that AV was a very special case that needed a certain "trick" which we never found out. Guess that's all over now eh?

Which is better, it being broken and unbeatable, or it being zerged by only the best linkshells?

[Kirbyprime]

Which is better, it being broken and unbeatable, or it being zerged by only the best linkshells?

Having it take 18 hours to kill obviously

[ronin sparthos]

Congratulations to the linkshells that have beaten AV. Seriously I mean that. If you have the means to take it down then why not? No matter how it's done. The people in those shells must be really proud and rightly so. I know I would be.

However, my personal opinion is that for the flagship mob of FFXI to be reduced to a zerg fest is a sad day for endgame as a whole. But that's not the linkshells' fault that have beaten it. It's SE's fault. Zerg tactics have always been used for certain mobs. Just I always believed that AV was a very special case that needed a certain "trick" which we never found out. Guess that's all over now eh?

The quicker everyone gets over AV, the quicker people can start throwing bodies at Pandemonium Warden.

[Darwinion]

Which is better, it being broken and unbeatable, or it being zerged by only the best linkshells?

Just because you have enough KClubs DRKs or whatever doesn't make you one of the "best" linkshells. And before anyone says anything... no!... I'm not saying that any of the shells that have beaten it like this are not quality shells. I applaud them and they should be proud of their victories.

But you intimate that any LS that can do this is automatically is one of the "best" shells? I think not.

[TB]

Awsomeland from Odin on it again. First one dead, alot more to go. Around 35min from JoL pop to AV death.

Drops for BBQ:

Sash
Rod
Aureole
Bellona's