Absolute Virtue ~ 9/8/08

[Alistaire]

People need to stop lying to themselves, 95% of this game does NOT take any skill other than organization, how how sad you are if you believe it does.

fixed.

[Demosthenes11]

all you morons complaining it takes no skill better be 6manning tiamat, 6manning ixion and solo'ing jailers. If not, fuck off

[lotmorning]

Man I have been unable to log onto a computer very much yet alone FFXI since 2 weeks ago when computer blew up. Wanted to get some info on the AV update since new dell should be here tonight, but there 65 pages now . Is there anyone that could possibly send a PM with the new AV info? if not looks like I have a shit ton of reading when new dell arives.

[Franzer]

Oh well, in a couple hours everyone can start complaining again about how AV isn't beatable again. Hopefully lots of people snagged the items, dipped out of ls, and found a new home in rolanberry fields, because then this thread will actually be fun to read again. BOOHOO WE'RE ADDICTED TO CRACK FEEL SORRY FOR US

[Auronku]

Hypothetically, if the maintenance notes make no mention of an AV Buff, SE/BW Nerf, etc... were there groups that were planning on fighting again tonight?

Just curious if we'll find out for sure whether it was "ninja-patched" like before tonight, because Awsomeland is waiting until Saturday I believe.

[Krye]

So........... if it's so easy..... then go do it. Nobody is stopping you. Really. Well, maybe with the exception of SE in roughly 42 minutes, but that's a whole different tale.

I have a chainsaw and you have a butter knife nothing is stopping you from cutting down a tree.

[abbeylee]

So, if its so easy to zerg anything, why don't more linkshells kill things like KV and Vrtra in less than 30 seconds. Also, can't stun AV, just wanted to throw that in there. Lastly, the 2hrs aren't what hurts the most.. it's the stupid Petrify and the fucked up stun that usually lands two in a row. But zerging is easy, that's why soo many linkshells can kill AV < lol.

[Ansems]

Is any LS ready to pop AV after the maintenance?

[Talint]

People need to stop lying to themselves, zerging does NOT take any skill other than organization, how how sad you are if you believe it does.

Define "skill" then, as you see it.

[Alistaire]

and it's not hard to have 2 tanks and some healers + support hit a few buttons and tank while some DDs hit a few other buttons and kill something. Zerging takes as much "skill" in this game as other stuff (gotta know preparation, have knowledge about the game (what to equip) and have the equips to pull it off). There isn't any part of this game that is rocket science anymore.

all you morons complaining it takes no skill better be 6manning tiamat, 6manning ixion and solo'ing jailers. If not, fuck off

Contradiction much? On the same page no less.

I don't consider low-manning something to be the same as the game requiring skill. You can "hard-mode" any game you play by limiting the resources you allow yourself.

[Drako]

Define "skill" then, as you see it.

skill in ffxi is the ability to press macros fast, properly and using all your equipament efficiently, and thats all..

[Kenji]

Considering the time it takes to farm sea (my LS doesn't buy pops) then I'd rather go the route of the guaranteed victory with drops then an almost guaranteed (with no info) loss without drops. Also zerging AV is not easy- it requires a precision many linkshells don't have. If you're off on your timing by even a few seconds it will probably cost you the win against AV.

If anyone wants to say we took the easy route, i'm fine with that, but we have the items and in my opinion getting there is more important then how we got there.

This attitude is correct.

But there are others that want to banish any sign that they might be a tad less than they believe they are, in their own mind.

Easy, in this case, does not mean simple as in a child could do it.

Easy means this route is easier to do than the alternative, ie, zerging is easier than dealing with AV for an hour. Considering AV is extremely difficult, the zerg is thus, by default, the "EZ mode."

Now, can we admit this to ourselves, thus entering the Acceptance stage, and get on to discussing how AV *should* be? That is, a Fight that is sufficiently challenging that doesn't take 30 seconds to do? I'm okay with any AV fight over 10 minutes. But if this is SE's baby, and they want it to last at least 30 minutes, I'd be okay with that, too.

[Kaeko]

Gotta admit, not even the stuff like soloing LBC really takes that much "skill" - just planning, resources, and the willingness to attempt it. Relative to some things you do in game, ok maybe, but overall not really.

You can debase nearly any accomplishment in game to "all you need to do is XXX and YYY". It's not like I just dunked the basketball from the free-throw line or played 5 instruments at the same time. Using terms like "no skill" puts the argument in really a gray area. I think "imbalanced" would a better place to start the argument on this personally.

[Ansems]

It take skill to zerg, last night was a prime example in Shiva. A linkshell in my sever tried to zerg it. Only 2-3 brd, one of the brd did defense songs. After that a few drks started way early, some came in to late.. wiped at 89%.

[Jeryhn]

It take skill to zerg, last night was a prime example in Shiva. A linkshell in my sever tried to zerg it. Only 2-3 brd, one of the brd did defense songs. After that a few drks started way early, some came in to late.. wiped at 89%.

That's more of an example of "you need to not be retarded" to zerg rather than you need any skill to do so.

[Ansems]

Being not retarded IS a skill.

[Jackyl]

I have a chainsaw and you have a butter knife nothing is stopping you from cutting down a tree.

You're right. Nothing is stopping me. If I saw you cutting down a tree with a chainsaw and realized all I had was a butter knife, I would work on getting myself a chainsaw if I really wanted to cut down that tree bad enough.

That is my point. If people think zerging AV is easy, and they want AV items bad enough, they should work on getting the resources to pull it off. If you think zerging is lame, well, don't do it. Regardless of whether someone thinks one method of killing a monster requires more skill than another, it all comes down to preference. I just don't see the need for pages and pages of whining, arguing, justifying... ugh.

SapereAude, like many linkshells, has tried to take AV down the 'normal' way countless times. We've wasted our time and xp just like the rest of you in an attempt to defeat AV. Zerging was just one of the many strategies we were trying for the newly updated AV which happened to work. As you all know, zerging AV is not a 100% guaranteed win. A small mistake on the part of the players or certain behaviors from AV can easily turn into an instantaneous wipe. We, like anyone else, hope to find the 'real' way to defeat AV so we can take it down with less manpower and 100% success rate. At this point, if they made AV non-zergable yet threw us a bone about how to properly kill him, I'd be delighted.

Anyhow.. 9 mins until server up. /wait

[Ansems]

Jack yer popping JOL soon?

[MillionDollarMan]

LOL this thread is so funny. The more I look at it the more i wonder why i play this game. It's so funny how a BCNM item is even better than a weapon that's supposed to be the best.

[ninjafox]

You're right. Nothing is stopping me. If I saw you cutting down a tree with a chainsaw and realized all I had was a butter knife, I would work on getting myself a chainsaw if I really wanted to cut down that tree bad enough.

That is my point. If people think zerging AV is easy, and they want AV items bad enough, they should work on getting the resources to pull it off. If you think zerging is lame, well, don't do it. Regardless of whether someone thinks one method of killing a monster requires more skill than another, it all comes down to preference. I just don't see the need for pages and pages of whining, arguing, justifying... ugh.

SapereAude, like many linkshells, has tried to take AV down the 'normal' way countless times. We've wasted our time and xp just like the rest of you in an attempt to defeat AV. Zerging was just one of the many strategies we were trying for the newly updated AV which happened to work. As you all know, zerging AV is not a 100% guaranteed win. A small mistake on the part of the players or certain behaviors from AV can easily turn into an instantaneous wipe. We, like anyone else, hope to find the 'real' way to defeat AV so we can take it down with less manpower and 100% success rate. At this point, if they made AV non-zergable yet threw us a bone about how to properly kill him, I'd be delighted.

Anyhow.. 9 mins until server up. /wait

Stab him with the butterknife and take the chainsaw >.>