Stat reduction on high lv gear

[Doval]

Ranged slot items seemed to be completely negated. Hedgehog Bomb, Phantom Tathlum, etc. Nothing at all.

Probably because there aren't any INT or MP ammo pieces at 58 that aren't NM (Morion Tathlum) or BCNM (Mantra Coin) exclusive.

Head slot seemed like it had no MP reduction. I tried Relic hat, AF+1, and Turban. All gave full MP amounts.

Out of all of those, the head piece that gives the most MP is Walahra Turban (30.) The Lv.50 NQ Gold Hairpin gives that much.

The thing that I found odd is that Intensifying Cape, having the same 30HP/MP that the W. Turban or Fourth Mace have to start, was 10MP...and that's it.

Because, again, the best non-NM/HQ/BC etc MP back piece at that level, Auroral Mantle, only gives 10.

Regarding Fourth Mace, the weapon slot seems a bit odd in the way it handles +stats, but in any case there are weapons that go up to +20 HP/MP by that level.

Similarly, other stats didn't scale down equally. Errant body was +2 (with full negatives in place). So were Mahatma slops. So were Penitent's Rope and Yigit Hands, which start with +5s instead of +10s.

That's the most you can get at that level with NQ non-NM/BC gear (Justaucorps, Magic Slacks, R.K. Belt, Elder's Bracers/Savage Gauntlets)

Too lazy to keep going. FFXIAH power search helps a lot. Seems consistent if you ask me.

[Cream Soda]

Most of the gear is scaled not in relation to it's real level, but to the other gear available for the same slot for that level.
Turban gets the full mp probably because the comparable +mp gear in the head slot gives a lot of mp even at lower levels (hairpins).
Osode on the other hand has no comparable gear at all, IIRC the first body with +stat is the royal squire robe at 10 (which locks head) then some +hp crap till windy doublet in the 30ish.
Leg slot follows the same pattern about, for the feet there are only rare/outstanding good pieces (bounding boots/power sandals), then a bunch of crap.
Back pieces with +mp are all below +10 (not sure) unless HQ synths till level 60.
The whole scaling might seem broken, but at a second glance it looks really researched to not give advantage to who syncs down.
es. emp hairpin being crap before the right level: the only piece that gives any bonuses in the head slot is the sandy bandana +1 for a whooping +1 agi. If the pin scaled to +1 agi/dex at, let's say, level 15 it would give a bonus no other gear for the level can offer, thus giving an unfair advantage.
This said, post 70 the scaling could use some tweaks.

While this makes sense for a lot of gear, there's still some that it doesn't even come close. 20 attack available in hand slot for mnk/nin/sam at 40, scale to 40 with attack 22 gloves and transforms to attack+3

[Doval]

While this makes sense for a lot of gear, there's still some that it doesn't even come close. 20 attack available in hand slot for mnk/nin/sam at 40, scale to 40 with attack 22 gloves and transforms to attack+3

Not everyone has, or can afford, O-Kote. S-E was pretty clear that they didn't want Sync'd players having a significant advantage, so it's unreasonable to give every 75 +12-20 Attack just for having high level Attack gloves while pretending that non-sync'd players won't be disadvantaged.

If you want 20 Attack so badly then bring your O-Kotes. Having take 3-4 extra items beats having to fetch an entire gear set.

[arshesney]

While this makes sense for a lot of gear, there's still some that it doesn't even come close. 20 attack available in hand slot for mnk/nin/sam at 40, scale to 40 with attack 22 gloves and transforms to attack+3

You right, but aside O.kotes (which are outstanding gear) you're stuck with Battle Gloves or Royal Squire Mufflers(or gloves, not sure of the name) that give 3 attack and are basically free.
Dragon leggings are "just" an upgrade of bounding boots, but at 50 they only give +1 dex/agi.

On another side Matron's Knife at 50 cap still gives the full +4 DEX, couldn't check the latent, but really weird.

[Cream Soda]

Still urks me (at least from a mnk's point of view). I think they should have scaled on an individual basis as compared to how they did it. I pretty much have to keep a full capped set. For example Feddy Kyahan give 4 attack and at 40 usu shoes give 0. Still need brown belt cause black is only str+1. Good thing I camped amulet (or woulda sold pcc when I got faith torque) so I'm good there. Togi gave 0 attack and I'm going to assume 0 acc (cause had less acc than attack) and still the -50 hp so still gotta pick up another juji gi. As you described, it doesn't sound too horrible for other jobs, but mnk rly got a screw job here.

[Isiolia]

That's the most you can get at that level with NQ non-NM/BC gear (Justaucorps, Magic Slacks, R.K. Belt, Elder's Bracers/Savage Gauntlets)

Too lazy to keep going. FFXIAH power search helps a lot. Seems consistent if you ask me.

It's not really that consistent. Some things, sure, you can explain away because "that's the best you can get".

Hairpins take HP to give that MP. W. Turban still gives 10. Devotee's Mitts +1 are 6 MND, and yet Yigit get scaled down to 2. If it's going purely on what's available, they shouldn't be reduced at all. Same with the Bandomusha Kote vs. Ochuido's. They should, if things are simply being matched, stay at 20 ATT (or close to it) unless under level 34.

Far as Ammo, how about that Bomb Core or Bomblet give -nothing- as well, despite there being Bailatorn, Tiphia Sting, and Riot Grenade? RSE Sachets? Holy Ampulla?
Lots of stuff comes from NMs and still scales. That slot just doesn't seem to at all.

Same with feet. Mannequin Pumps are there. RSE has stats, Leaping Boots, whatever. Why then do boots give no stats?


If they were really synching things to be about on par with lower level versions you would have replaced with them, there would be some differences. To a point they're doing it, but there are obvious places they aren't.


Personally I don't see a problem with have some better scaling when taking into consideration the general reasons that anyone would be capped in the first place.

[Doval]

Hairpins take HP to give that MP. W. Turban still gives 10. Devotee's Mitts +1 are 6 MND, and yet Yigit get scaled down to 2.

It's pretty clear that each stat is being considered individually. Just because your MP is capped at whatever amount you could get from the highest hairpin it doesn't mean your head slot will get the hairpin's stats (which often works out to be an advantage.) Devotee's is a crafted upgrade off of a NM drop. It's pretty clear that NM-exclusive drops aren't taken into consideration for the values at which your stats will be capped (see the O.Kote example.) There is absolutely no reason why a SAM with 80k Tarasque Mitts should get 10 out of 20 Attack that a pair of 500+k Ochuido's Kote gives. The SAM is getting 7 more Attack than what a lower level SAM can get if the lower level SAM doesn't have O-Kote. There is an abundance of higher level gear that has stats comparable to low level NM drops but are significantly easier to get or afford than the said low level NM drops. A sync'd high level player would have stats comparable to the most well-equipped low level player, just from using their normal gear. That's not reasonable.

Far as Ammo, how about that Bomb Core or Bomblet give -nothing- as well, despite there being Bailatorn, Tiphia Sting, and Riot Grenade? RSE Sachets? Holy Ampulla?

Again, those (Bailathorn, Tiphia Sting, RSE Sachets, Holy Ampulla) are all NM drops.

Lots of stuff comes from NMs and still scales. That slot just doesn't seem to at all.

NM gear will scale down; whether the high level gear is a NM drop or not is irrelevant; the point is that you won't have the stats of the lower level NM drops. This applies to other slots just as much as it does the Ammo slot.

Same with feet. Mannequin Pumps are there. RSE has stats, Leaping Boots, whatever. Why then do boots give no stats?

More quest/NM-exclusive gear. I do get +10 HP from my feet slot by the way.

[Spider-Dan]

Hmmm. I think the way they may have implemented it is:

-Select a job (e.g. RNG)
-Select a slot for that job (e.g. head)
-Map out significant upgrades for that slot (e.g. AGI+3 @ LV24, STR+3 @ LV41, RATK+5 @ LV54, RACC+10 @ LV70; this shouldn't be difficult, as they likely have an existing list that they use as a guideline when they create new gear)
-Set cap to +0 at LV10 and then manually increase the cap at the aforementioned levels of significance
-repeat for each slot
-repeat for each job

It seems tedious, but most of the work is in the research; if you're already holding a "leet gear" list, then it's fairly easy.

[Isiolia]

It's pretty clear that each stat is being considered individually. Just because your MP is capped at whatever amount you could get from the highest hairpin it doesn't mean your head slot will get the hairpin's stats (which often works out to be an advantage.) Devotee's is a crafted upgrade off of a NM drop. It's pretty clear that NM-exclusive drops aren't taken into consideration for the values at which your stats will be capped (see the O.Kote example.) There is absolutely no reason why a SAM with 80k Tarasque Mitts should get 10 out of 20 Attack that a pair of 500+k Ochuido's Kote gives. The SAM is getting 7 more Attack than what a lower level SAM can get if the lower level SAM doesn't have O-Kote. There is an abundance of higher level gear that has stats comparable to low level NM drops but are significantly easier to get or afford than the said low level NM drops.

Maybe, but to me, taking too much off of higher level stuff makes it less appealing to use sync. The whole point should be that high level people can viably use their upper level/Rare/EX gear and macros without a fuss, and without losing most of the benefit of them. I can understand when it's something that has absolutely no comparison prior to 75 or something (Duelist's Chapeau, say), but when it's something like kote...why the hell not?

Again, those (Bailathorn, Tiphia Sting, RSE Sachets, Holy Ampulla) are all NM drops.

NM drops or not they're there. There are level 50 IS items as well. Or hell, there are event ranged items at level 1. Why should that make a difference?

NM gear will scale down; whether the high level gear is a NM drop or not is irrelevant; the point is that you won't have the stats of the lower level NM drops. This applies to other slots just as much as it does the Ammo slot.

The difference being that other drops scale, these do -nothing-.

More quest/NM-exclusive gear. I do get +10 HP from my feet slot by the way.

Yeah, I said stats (INT/MND/etc) and presumably other stuff too. The only thing I got was MP. Again, it shouldn't matter what the origin of the piece is, especially given that a lot of 75s are going to be using a good deal of Rare/EX pieces.

If "NM drop" is a rationale for not scaling, then that's a poor decision on SE's part.

[Spider-Dan]

Here's a suggestion (sincerely):

The next time you see a piece of gear that appears to be unjustifiably nerfed, compare it to NQ craftable alternatives of your (synced) level.

I have a feeling that it will be comparable.

[Damen]

More accuracy tests:

Level 50 Cap:

Base:
-12 accuracy = Neutral evasion
-9 Accuracy = Low evasion

From -12 accuracy, Added Haub+1 Optical Hat, Diabolos's Earring, Denali Gamashes.
Mob still checked as neutral evasion.

Also was able to get a mob to go from Neutral evasion to Low evasion by adding 1 DEX. Added haub, went to low evasion (from the DEX). Added sharness and got Neutral evasion. Optical hat also added 0 accuracy.

Another interesting note is that Perdu Blade gives +4 attack when compared to Shirani. Appears to give 2 accuracy.

lv60 Cap Pso'Xja:
Only thing really to test here are Optical Hat and Diabolos's earring.
+5 accuracy = low evasion
+4 accuracy = neutral.

From +4 accuracy, equipped Diabolos's Earring and Optical hat. Still checked Neutral evasion. Took off optical hat and earring and equipped Denali Gambashes and rechecked as low evasion.

[Raithen]

Isiolia, I think what you're failing to understand is that gear doesn't scale by any means. Stats on gear cap at certain predetermined values. I literally posted all of this on the previous page.

Regardless of job every gear slot has a certain cap for every stat which is very likely based on NQ craftable gear available before that level. Most slots get close to nothing besides HP/MP/Defense, so don't even think about trying gear with large attack, accuracy, or stats. It's not broken, it's very balanced. You still need your good level cap gear.

Edit: Damen, it appears Denali Gamashes give you 1 or 2 accuracy in 60 cap. I'll test these on my MNK in 40 cap to see if I get 1 accuracy. It is nice to know that Ear, Head, and Body slots stay 0 accuracy even in 60-cap. Also are you saying Perdu Blade's 10 Attack and 5 Accuracy were capped at 4 Attack and 2 Accuracy? Weapon type might play a role in determining caps where armor type does not. My friend's Juggernaut gave him 5 attack at level 40.

[Isiolia]

Isiolia, I think what you're failing to understand is that gear doesn't scale by any means. Stats on gear cap at certain predetermined values. I literally posted all of this on the previous page.

Regardless of job every gear slot has a certain cap for every stat which is very likely based on NQ craftable gear available before that level. Most slots get close to nothing besides HP/MP/Defense, so don't even think about trying gear with large attack, accuracy, or stats. It's not broken, it's very balanced. You still need your good level cap gear.

I understand what it's doing, however, I think it's stupid.

If I need good level cap gear, I will not sync a 75 job for XP/merit/whatever. It should not be necessary to do that.

As they -are- simply setting what gets changed or not, they could be allowing +skill from AF+1 to work, or for things like kote or Fuma feet to operate as the lower level versions.

My opinion is that they should be doing this in such a way that someone getting an invite to sync from high level shouldn't have to think twice, or consider other gear, or whatever. It should be disgustingly convenient for them, because in essence it's doing the lower level people a favor.

[Raithen]

The level sync system is only "bad" for high levels if you either never owned or got rid of all of your "rare" gear before now. The system isn't poorly designed by any means. If you want to use your AF+1, get your re-quested 5 piece set out of NPC storage for 1000 gil. If you want to wear your Fuma Sune-Ate in level 40 cap, grab your Sarutobi Kyahan or if you're really enthusiastic, but not enough to have camped Quu Domi, buy Fuma Kyahan. Honestly there is no room to complain about this system, the fault for not keeping the BEST level cap items in the first place is the player's.

In regard to Cream Soda and haste on MNK stuff, I don't think it really matters how much haste you have in 40 cap or even 50 cap. Use a Tilt belt in 40 or a Life belt in 50, it's not a big deal. If you don't carry a life belt on your MNK regularly I think something is wrong. For other gear slots, missing 4 accuracy on Jujitsu Gi won't kill you. 20 attack on your hands might hurt a bit, but I've got my Ochimusha Kote in my Storage for times when I can't wear Melee Gloves or Bandos.

[Doval]

I understand what it's doing, however, I think it's stupid.

That's your opinion; I respect it. However, that doesn't mean the system itself is flawed, broken, or mediocre. You're basically complaining because you don't want to settle for good stats; you want SE to hand you the best possible stats just for equipping high level armor. That's your problem, not SE's - they were pretty clear about the fact that a well-equipped player would have better stats than a Sync'd player wearing higher level gear. The stats you get while Sync'd are arguably good enough, and if you want the best of the best then you'll have to make sacrifices (i.e. getting level-appropriate gear.)

[Isiolia]

You're basically complaining because you don't want to settle for good stats; you want SE to hand you the best possible stats just for equipping high level armor.

And you read that exactly where in my post? My argument is that killing higher level gear that replaces similar lower level stuff is dumb, especially when it's basically the same stuff. I don't expect my Warlock's Tabard +1 to be in full effect at level 58, but it damn well could be made to act like the NQ piece so that I wouldn't have to pull the NQ set off of NPC, change macros, etc.
Go below 58? Then fine. Remove the skill.
Why can't a Hauberk act like a Haubergeon down to 59? What does that hurt?

I think there should be less of a nosedive on some stuff, particularly above 70. Why does an Osode tank to +3 on all stats at 74? Errant is available for BRD, Haub for melees, etc.

In cases of stuff like Haidate, sure, there's absolutely nothing remotely comparable at lower level. It could keep more DEX longer maybe, but otherwise the slot in general is pretty meh for a while. Not expecting much else with that. It's the things that are on par with long-standing gear that I don't think should be gimped as harshly.

[Spider-Dan]

And you read that exactly where in my post? My argument is that killing higher level gear that replaces similar lower level stuff is dumb, especially when it's basically the same stuff. I don't expect my Warlock's Tabard +1 to be in full effect at level 58, but it damn well could be made to act like the NQ piece so that I wouldn't have to pull the NQ set off of NPC, change macros, etc.
Go below 58? Then fine. Remove the skill.

Then why are you posting this today instead of 2 weeks ago, when Squenix clearly announced that special bonuses will NOT be carried over on overleveled gear and provided several helpful examples to explain it in detail?

Why were you surprised to see the +enfeebling skill on AF+1 NOT work when synced, when that's precisely what they said WOULD HAPPEN?

You want the +enfeebling (or +Flee, or +enmity, or +ninjutsu) of AF? Wear your f'ing artifact armor, then. Did you seriously expect them to go through and manually set all AF+1 to act exactly like NQ AF when synced, in direct contradiction of the guidelines they just finished outlining?

[Raithen]

I think there should be less of a nosedive on some stuff, particularly above 70. Why does an Osode tank to +3 on all stats at 74?

It's because there is a global limit on all stats. No piece of armor in any slot will allow for more than +3 all stats while level synced. If you need the piece that provides more, you must have that piece. The reason for the global limit is because only certain items break those limits in the first place and the pieces that do would be overpowered considering their overall stats. Like I said in my previous post, it's the player's fault for not keeping their level cap gear.

[Isiolia]

Then why are you posting this today instead of 2 weeks ago, when Squenix clearly announced that special bonuses will NOT be carried over on overleveled gear and provided several helpful examples to explain it in detail?

Why were you surprised to see the +enfeebling skill on AF+1 NOT work when synced, when that's precisely what they said WOULD HAPPEN?

You want the +enfeebling (or +Flee, or +enmity, or +ninjutsu) of AF? Wear your f'ing artifact armor, then. Did you seriously expect them to go through and manually set all AF+1 to act exactly like NQ AF when synced, in direct contradiction of the guidelines they just finished outlining?

Where did I say I was expecting it to work like I want already?

I said I think it's stupid that it does not. I'm not surprised that SE implemented something that I consider to be exceptionally poor design. It's something they do on quite a regular basis.

There are -some- things that surprised me, but that's not it.

Like I said in my previous post, it's the player's fault for not keeping their level cap gear.

And like I've been saying, level cap gear should not be necessary. You make that "needed" and you take away from the appeal of sync'ing for some of us. No, I'm not going on go buy a million gil worth of stuff for my NIN (O Kote, Fumas, Emp Pin, etc) that I have no need for at 75 just to fill in for a level 50 XP party. I'll just tell them to pack sand if they ask.

[Shadowrunner]

And like I've been saying, level cap gear should not be necessary. You make that "needed" and you take away from the appeal of sync'ing for some of us. No, I'm not going on go buy a million gil worth of stuff for my NIN (O Kote, Fumas, Emp Pin, etc) that I have no need for at 75 just to fill in for a level 50 XP party. I'll just tell them to pack sand if they ask.

And I'll say Fuck all if i'm going to doodle with my moogle, and I'll just go party in the cruddy gear I have and have fun.

I'm actually kinda hoping that SE drives the point across that while great stats make you great, crap stats really don't make you crap, unless you suck. +2 STR or not, you should still be able to have fun, and if the other members of the party are that stingy, then they should have thought about it before inviting for the level sync.

It really is a matter of who wants the ethug their epeen, and who wants to fill in the slot knowing they're weak.

It's working prefectly if you ask me. If you trick yourself out for level 40 cap, then by all means you are big pimpin. If you wanna be "lazy" and screw the 900k pair of boots that give +3 Dex/Agi, and scale down a pair that only gives +1 or maybe even nothing, then.. that's your choice, and odds are.. it won't cripple you too bad.

In short, I'd rather not spend 2m to get +25 MP in a ring scaled down to level 40, I'd rather wear some ring I use regularly and have them scaled down to +20 from the Electrum rings, or whatever. It's lookin beautiful to me.