Stat reduction on high lv gear

[Emorej]

I've done the lvl cap thing a few times this weekend. And while we did look at the change in stats, it didnt stop anyone from doing what this was meant to do. EXP jobs. And yes we even had someone gained a few merits while we went from lvl 22-27 in very short order.

Also did a cap of 73 down to 70 and we keep it there when someone lvled up, and the exp still rolled in. Isnt that what this "should" be about anyway?

[Doval]

And you read that exactly where in my post?

Everywhere. I can read between the lines, you know, and your posts scream that every time you type. You're upset that a Sync'd down NIN won't get the stats for O-Kote, Emp Hairpin and Fuma Kyahan (without owning them!,) and without that, Level Sync is useless? Because every NIN has all 3 of those items, right? And it's impossible to perform even remotely decently without them?

No matter how you slice it you're saying you want S-E to give you totally pimped out stats, and because they won't (despite the fact that they said they wouldn't before the update was implemented,) the feature is "exceptionally poor design" according to you. Your last post sums that up quite nicely. Hint: you don't need 1.3 mill in NM drops to tank for a Lv.50 party on NIN (and the party isn't going to chew you out for not having them.) It sure helps if you have them, but you don't really need them. If you really can't live without super awesome stats then Level Sync loses its appeal to you, but some of us can make do with decent stats.

[Isiolia]

Everywhere. I can read between the lines, you know, and your posts scream that every time you type. You're upset that a Sync'd down NIN won't get the stats for O-Kote, Emp Hairpin and Fuma Kyahan (without owning them!,) and without that, Level Sync is useless? Because every NIN has all 3 of those items, right? And it's impossible to perform even remotely decently without them?

I've given a number of examples like those because they have corresponding high level gear that could be scaled to match them, and because it's the kind of thing that people are suggesting people just keep (or rebuy) in order to use them when sync'ed.

The particular examples there just happen to be more expensive things to buy, and things that have very comparable high level equals. SE could strip down the higher level stuff to be on par or only slightly under the low level items. Instead, they make them significantly worse, or basically statless.

Even things that are "free" are an inconvenience, like pulling NQ AF sets out and redoing macros to use them instead of HQ.

It's poor design that AF+1 isn't scaled back to NQ AF above the level that you can wear the regular AF anyway. It's poor design that a functionally similar piece isn't scaled to be comparable at low level. Cases where one wouldn't be getting an advantage, just having their effort maintained.
For example, if an O. Hat scaled to something like 8 or 10 evasion only (remove acc/racc) down to level 24, then it's still "inferior" to an Emp Pin, but it'd be acceptable to most anyone when sync'ed.

There are other poorly thought out aspects of the system as well, like wiping buffs every time the synced-to person levels, or not getting skillups. Explainable due to how the game handles capped situations, but still poorly thought out.

I'm not saying "totally pimped out stats", I'm just saying it should do more towards higher level players not needing to change anything about their setups when sync'ed. I understand that SE designed it that way, and stated as such. Doesn't mean I'm obligated to think it was a great idea.

[Purrrfect]

a coupe hours woulda been better spent into changing beetle mobs so their front right foot isn't backwards anymore.

lmfao

[arshesney]

While it might be nice for the AF, it just don't apply for other gear. If you did not spend some effort to get an Empress hairpin (an exceptional piece of gear) why your O.hat should make up for that? A Joe level 35 NIN didn't get a shot to O.hat yet, but he spent 2 weeks camping Valkurm Emperor for the hairpin: do you think is fair for you to have two choices to get a similar item?
Same thing could apply to most of the NM drops.
It's about having unfair advantage over people, if your high level item would be scaled down to a comparable level with the "lowbie" one, why bother with the latter and why giving two picks to an high level?

[Isiolia]

While it might be nice for the AF, it just don't apply for other gear. If you did not spend some effort to get an Empress hairpin (an exceptional piece of gear) why your O.hat should make up for that? A Joe level 35 NIN didn't get a shot to O.hat yet, but he spent 2 weeks camping Valkurm Emperor for the hairpin: do you think is fair for you to have two choices to get a similar item?
Same thing could apply to most of the NM drops.
It's about having unfair advantage over people, if your high level item would be scaled down to a comparable level with the "lowbie" one, why bother with the latter and why giving two picks to an high level?

Last time I checked, people weren't being issued O. Hats upon dinging 70 either.

Joe 35 NIN may have spent time to get an Emp Pin, but whose to say a 70 NIN didn't farm for a bunch back in the day either? Since then, they may well have spent a whole lot more time earning the level to wear an O. Hat, farming eyes/buying a cluster/etc, and killing Hakutaku to get it, and then sold off his pin to buy other gear or make space in a crowded mog house.

Personally, I don't see why tens of hours of additional work should be negated like that.
Again, something like Byakko's Haidate where there's nothing remotely comparable? Sure, a few DEX n' all is fine.

The only logic there is that you don't want people snubbing the 35 NIN because he has crap gear and a sync'ed NIN would likely be better. To me, that's a more complicated issue, and one that goes beyond just gear.

[Thorny]

I did 25-48 COR in about 12 hours of actual partying, ~3/6 of the party was ls members wearing sync gear usually.. mandies only. We very rarely dipped below 10k/hr.. it isn't nearly as bad as everyone is making it out to be, seriously.

[Korremar]

I understand complaints about this. However, people are painting it in a completely, 100% negative light, and honestly it's simply not true. Was in a level sync party yesterday, 4/6 people had absolutely NO level-appropriate gear (all 60+ stuff). We were doing Yhoat mandies and raking in almost 15k/hr. If earning 15k/hr with "gimped" gear is bad, then so be it, but it seems pretty damned good to me, especially since some jobs like PLD or SMN can't get into 20k+ merit parties. The sync isn't perfect, but it's not nearly as bad as some people are saying.

[rath]

Ok i know this works because I tried it last night. Here is the setup.

You need a pty of SMN 6 of them. You need one of those SMN's to be lvl 10 or 20.


IF LVL 10 go to Buburimu Peninsula.

If LVL 20 go to Lower Delkfutt's Tower.

Ok now you need to have a kiter you can either use 1 of the SNM in your pty have him drop and kite or ask a friend. Last night we had a PLD friend kite for us.

So what you are going to do is LEVEL synth except for the kiter or friend. Have that kiter link 50-60 mobs at once. It takes about 10 mins. Once he has that much he returns to your pty. Then you have 3 smn Time Astral Flow the mobs.

Here is the numbers ^^:

60 MOBS dead at 300 exp each plus chain bonuses = minimum 18kexp

Now seeming you brought 6 smns you can do this 2 times ^^.

I diddnt believe it myself till i tried it.

Quote was from alla smn forums. Anyways, has anyone tried this out yet? Sounds like a very good use of lvl sync.

[Thorny]

I tried this back in 2005 or 2006, it doesn't work nearly as well as you'd think. Mobs deaggro very quickly and astral flow range isn't very large. The most I could manage was chain 12 on Ts.. astral flow won't one shot anything higher than that even at level 10. If you're expecting to get even 100 base/person with a party of 6 you're entirely full of shit.

[rath]

I tried this back in 2005 or 2006, it doesn't work nearly as well as you'd think. Mobs deaggro very quickly and astral flow range isn't very large. The most I could manage was chain 12 on Ts.. astral flow won't one shot anything higher than that even at level 10. If you're expecting to get even 100 base/person with a party of 6 you're entirely full of shit.

read the post dumbass, I did not say I did it. I asked if anyone has tried that. The person quoted was not on this board, and cannot reply to your "full of shit"

[Thorny]

Quote was from alla smn forums. Anyways, has anyone tried this out yet? Sounds like a very good use of lvl sync.

If you're expecting to get even 100 base/person with a party of 6 you're entirely full of shit.

Bolded pertinent parts. Regardless of how I phrased it, I answered your question fine and you jumped on me for calling a conditional group of people full of shit.. I never said I meant you, the OP on alla, or anyone else in particular.

[Dominious]

The thread on alla has screenshots of chain22 giving 450 EXP, which would be 300 base EXP before chain bonus.

[Thorny]

Multiple AFs, maybe. I have a screenshot of chain 9 with mobs still alive that were only VT..
I don't see how any exp plan that requires your 2hr, a PL, and 6 people of a very specific job is efficient even if you can pull it off properly.

[rath]

Bolded pertinent parts. Regardless of how I phrased it, I answered your question fine and you jumped on me for calling a conditional group of people full of shit.. I never said I meant you, the OP on alla, or anyone else in particular.

Did you have someone outside of your party train mobs to you and gather as many as they could, did you have 3 smn AF together? Because with 6 people you get well over 100 base just doing this to 10 dobsonflies. and if 3 smn AF can take out 10 NM flies, why would mobs that you would normally be XPing on be harder to kill with it?

I asked if anyone has tested this. And it is not that difficult to gather a large group of mobs even with the potential despawning, it is only hard if you are at risk of dying and need to stay out of their reach.

[Thorny]

Did you have someone outside of your party train mobs to you and gather as many as they could, did you have 3 smn AF together? Because with 6 people you get well over 100 base just doing this to 10 dobsonflies. and if 3 smn AF can take out 10 NM flies, why would mobs that you would normally be XPing on be harder to kill with it?

I asked if anyone has tested this. And it is not that difficult to gather a large group of mobs even with the potential despawning, it is only hard if you are at risk of dying and need to stay out of their reach.

I had a dualbox gather about 20 mobs ranging from T to VT, plenty of them were not one shotted despite being hit by astral flow. This was done at level 11, and as astral flow becomes comparatively weaker at higher levels I somehow doubt it'd work at all at 20. It just seems like an extremely poor use of time.. if you can gather that many people and a PL you can make a fast proper party..

[rath]

I had a dualbox gather about 20 mobs ranging from T to VT, plenty of them were not one shotted despite being hit by astral flow. This was done at level 11, and as astral flow becomes comparatively weaker at higher levels I somehow doubt it'd work at all at 20. It just seems like an extremely poor use of time.. if you can gather that many people and a PL you can make a fast proper party..

If you had read the post though, it says specifically which zones, which levels, and how many smn you need. Nowhere does it say you can do this solo at any level range. How is this a bad use of time when it takes 10-15 minutes to set up, and then you can go.

[Thorny]

It takes significantly more than 15 minutes to set up and it's only good for summoner and during the organization time you could just get a good actual party going if you have a PL to do that anyway.. it's not that great an idea. Sure, it might be okay if you have really limited time and know enough other smns and have a level 10 person to sync you each time and somehow all are on at once enough to make repeating it worthwhile.. but shit is situational is a vast understatement. This was possible well before level sync, it wasn't worth setting up then because the effort outweighs the benefits.. as it does now.

[Doval]

It's poor design that AF+1 isn't scaled back to NQ AF above the level that you can wear the regular AF anyway. It's poor design that a functionally similar piece isn't scaled to be comparable at low level. Cases where one wouldn't be getting an advantage, just having their effort maintained.
For example, if an O. Hat scaled to something like 8 or 10 evasion only (remove acc/racc) down to level 24, then it's still "inferior" to an Emp Pin, but it'd be acceptable to most anyone when sync'ed.

I'll accept that it wouldn't have been unreasonable to have made an exception and turn AF+1 into NQ AF. However, I still hold fast that it's not fair to have pieces that are "functionally similar" scale down to the same stats as ultra-expensive, borderline-epeen lowbie items. You brought up O-hat; it's not exactly an easy item to get but, because of the 10 Acc, any self-respecting melee is expected to have it. However, an Emperor/Empress Hairpin is not mandatory for upcoming THFs and NINs. It's just not fair. And it doesn't stop at O-hat. Silk Headband +1 costs a paltry 25k, gives 10 Defense and 7 Evasion. Should someone with a Silk Headband +1 be entitled to 7 Evasion when capped at any level above 24 (while having some Defense, and not taking an HP penalty?) It's functionally similar, after all.

And besides that, you really expect them to go, slot by slot, piece by piece, subjectively deciding "Is X piece functionally similar enough to Y piece that we should make it arbitrarily behave like Y?"

You say it's not just about the e-peen gears but those are the only ones with stats worth crying over. Nobody should give a damn that they're missing 2 STR, 4 MND, 3 DEX, 5 VIT, 3 Attack, or whatever. At least, no one with a basic understanding of how stats work should.

It's not even that big of a bother to fetch your AF, seeing as it's storable. Dump 5 items into your mog house, retrieve AF from the NPC. Macros? We have more macro space than we even need. Copy-pasta your macro set and change the AF+1 to AF where needed and you're done. No need to rewrite your macros every time you sync to random-level-between-52-and-74.

[Thorny]

It's not even that big of a bother to fetch your AF, seeing as it's storable. Dump 5 items into your mog house, retrieve AF from the NPC. Macros? We have more macro space than we even need. Copy-pasta your macro set and change the AF+1 to AF where needed and you're done. No need to rewrite your macros every time you sync to random-level-between-52-and-74.

While I agreed with everything else you said, you do need to get all your AF1 back after you quest AF+1. This can be a huge pain in the ass, especially if the first piece you upgrade is something further in the quest line. There are ways around it, but it'll be messy. I personally got AF+1 body before the other pieces on NIN, went through whole quest line, and can't be assed going through whole quest line a third time to get more replacement NQ af.

Edit: I know you could store it as you quested it and end up with a half upgraded half NQ set out and a set in storage but then you can't take out stored set unless you toss others.. it's yucky. Honestly, I wouldn't mind dealing with my NQ af for sync situations if someone handed me a claim slip out of nowhere That said, I think the scale down system is perfectly fine and just needs a few small tweaks.