Commodore Tricorne Augment Tests

[safer]

k here are some results

naked 'cept for the frac on, no loaded deck merits

using snake eye + phantom roll then random dealing
24/50 successes, all of them resetting phantom roll, not once was snake eyes reset (1 merit in snake eyes, 15min timer)

also i was playing with it earlier without keeping track, but no matter how many ja's i used from my subjob, not once did they get reset, if anything, it was always phantom roll,

edit: k 0/15 on Flee + Snake eyes down then go 1/1 on phantom roll + flee , (PR got reset)

also: 0/15 on Souleater/Last resort

=/

[LinktheDeme]

No, you're not guaranteed to get a JA back if you're waiting on at least two recasts, I've definitely had Loaded Deck fail me in such scenarios.

If you're waiting on at least two recasts (Aside from two hour) you ARE guarenteed to get one back. It seems to always take priority in getting phantom roll back first though.

edit: Seems the frac has the same effect test using two jas that arent phantom roll if you can plz.

IE sj ranger use barrage SS random deal repeat a few times.

Also if you can have a friend get in the party as well do the testing the same testing with him using two jas and repeat. just to make sure that loaded from frac effects all in the party.

[Auspice]

No, you're not guaranteed to get a JA back if you're waiting on at least two recasts, I've definitely had Loaded Deck fail me in such scenarios.

Focuses effect of Random Deal on abilities waiting on recast. Has a chance to fail if only one ability is waiting on recast.

I'm a bit confused then.

[Kilhart]

If you're waiting on at least two recasts (Aside from two hour) you ARE guarenteed to get one back. It seems to always take priority in getting phantom roll back first though.

There is significant anecdotal (as well as some statistical) evidence to suggest that JAs with lower recasts are much more likely to be reset by Random Deal. For this reason, I have been torn between Lv3 Fold and Lv1 Fold, since Lv3 Fold potentially interferes with the Bust -> Fold + Random Deal -> Phantom Roll method.

No, you're not guaranteed to get a JA back if you're waiting on at least two recasts, I've definitely had Loaded Deck fail me in such scenarios.

Alright, while it can't necessary be considered PROOF, I've had Loaded Deck since the day or two after it was introduced, and I have never had it fail when waiting on two recasts (unless one of those recasts is a 2-hour or Random Deal, of course). Unless someone posts actual evidence, I think we can use inductive reasoning to justify that it cannot fail with two JA timers down, especially since that's what's implied by the JA description.

[Kirbyprime]

Not sure if this is the case, but since I've gotten loaded deck, I've failed twice. HOWEVER, both times I figured was not that it failed, but it was because I had just double upped a half second ago. Depending on how many times you've used double up, I've had it at around a 4-5 second recast so it could be possible that random deal is just refreshing double-up instead of an actually useful ability.

[Aemora]

I joined Safer last night for the random part of Random Deal testing.

I was on Sch and spammed LA, Addendum, DA, Addendum, Sublimation and Elemental/Divine Seal, and around 30% of the time (though this was a small sample we fkd aruond with), it only reset Light Arts (my first JA and lowest Recast), but never once reset 2 JAs or SJ JAs.

Would have been nice if it gave me back some Strategems :<

[safer]

edit: Seems the frac has the same effect test using two jas that arent phantom roll if you can plz.

IE sj ranger use barrage SS random deal repeat a few times.

i did multiple tests with sj thf and many combinations of SA/TA/Flee (either having 2 or 3 waiting on timer) with random deal not resetting anything
i recorded 0/15 with sj drk, using SE/LA , and not once was any of them reset... i could do more, but seeing as it looks to be a 50% rate with the frac to reset 1 JA, im gonna say it doesnt work on SJ's

so, if 1 merit in Loaded Deck guarantees a JA to be reset when 2 or more are waiting on recast, and the Frac's Enhancement doesnt do that... then what does it do exactly? =/

can someone confirm what the % success rate of random deal is without merits or the frac? i didnt have time to test last nice, and im at work now, if no one responds i can do the test myself in the evening.

btw did anyone test range? if not i can do that as well

[Mikayla]

I hadn't even stopped to think that it might just enhance the range of Random Deal. If that's the case, I suppose that makes it marginally useful, but not so much as to warrant carrying around fulltime. I think it's safe to say that the Frac doesn't mimic a point in Loaded Deck, because, just like everyone else is saying, it wouldn't have any fails with more than two down. I've also had Loaded Deck since the day they added it, and never seen it fail. Unless you're going off of evidence of having another COR with Loaded Deck trying to reset your own Random Deal (since RD can't reset itself), I've personally never seen RD fail with two or more JAs down.

The range testing is an interesting idea though. As for the normal "success" rate of Random Deal without Loaded Deck, it's really hard to estimate. You could always try doing 100 or so resets with the Frac and without the Frac (since you don't have Loaded Deck merits), and see what kind of results you get, but even then, the nature of the ability allows for a pretty high margin of error either way. On another note, I've also noticed that RD with LD has a tendency to focus on lower recasts, could it potentially be that the Frac focuses it on higher recasts? It'd be stupid hard to prove, obviously, but it's something else to think about.

edit: Suteru, your continued testing with the hat is much appreciated. The only pattern I can see though in your numbers is that it seems to trigger more on an initial roll of 6 more consistently, but I'll be the first to admit it's a rather small sample size to be able to draw any sort of conclusions from that, other than just the way the numbers happened to play out. If you could, to humor my curiosity, could you try using the hat for about 100 or more rolls in tandem with Snake Eye, forcing the initial roll to be a 1? If it's really the case that any number (i.e. 6) is given a higher chance of procing the job bonus with the hat on, there should be another huge variance in proc % using only a single number. If it just happens to be the natural distribution of the numbers, it should come out to be about the same. It's just one more variable to eliminate.

[safer]

On another note, I've also noticed that RD with LD has a tendency to focus on lower recasts, could it potentially be that the Frac focuses it on higher recasts?

like i said, in 50 rolls, it reset phantom roll every time(on the times it did work), and never snake eyes, so thinking its focusing on the lower recast ja's

i'll do the tests without the frac and check out the %success, i have almost 3 merits saved now, and would like to stick one in loaded deck, so think of any other tests i can do before i do that =p

[Mikayla]

like i said, in 50 rolls, it reset phantom roll every time(on the times it did work), and never snake eyes, so thinking its focusing on the lower recast ja's

i'll do the tests without the frac and check out the %success, i have almost 3 merits saved now, and would like to stick one in loaded deck, so think of any other tests i can do before i do that =p

Ah, sorry, I guess I missed that part. My bad.

[Auspice]

I'd rage if the Commodore Frac only increased the range of Random Deal, anyone test it yet though?

[safer]

sorry i didnt get a chance to reply... my internet died at my place, so posting this morning from work (actually its more like the free internet ive been leeching disappeared ;< )

i did however manage to do quick tests on range before losing connection, its 8' with and without the frac, so no change on that

unfortunately i cant do anymore testing until i figure out what to do about my internet... the one test i wanted to do was just check %random deal success with 2 JA from main job without the frac, but that isnt too hard to do
if it turns out to be less than 50%~, then we can say that the frac just adds a base %success to random deal, which isnt all that bad

[spikido]

like i said, in 50 rolls, it reset phantom roll every time(on the times it did work), and never snake eyes, so thinking its focusing on the lower recast ja's

i'll do the tests without the frac and check out the %success, i have almost 3 merits saved now, and would like to stick one in loaded deck, so think of any other tests i can do before i do that =p

Not-so-Random Deal has always worked this way. Here's the system it usually goes through:

Main Job Ability
Lowest Recast (Usually will hit Phantom Roll or Quick Draw)
Sub Job Ability
Lowest Recast

Now I'm not saying it's 100% of the time this way, but for damn sure it's at least this way 90% of the time.

[LinktheDeme]

Not-so-Random Deal has always worked this way. Here's the system it usually goes through:

Main Job Ability
Lowest Recast (Usually will hit Phantom Roll or Quick Draw)
Sub Job Ability
Lowest Recast

Now I'm not saying it's 100% of the time this way, but for damn sure it's at least this way 90% of the time.

I think it only works this way if the actual random deal misses and it goes to loaded deck.

Ex.

Check if Random Deal % works if fail go to loaded deck > then does what you just posted.

This is just what i've observed happen.

[Mikayla]

Loaded deck isn't a seperate check, it reworks the mechanics of Random Deal. Saying that it does a normal Random Deal check before triggering Loaded Deck makes no sense. Loaded Deck just focuses Random Deal entirely on JAs instead of JAs+Spells, and is an instant success if two or more JAs are waiting. If only one is waiting, it functions like a regular random deal only with the JA focus. I don't know how you'd get the idea there's two separate checks, or that even if there were, Loaded Deck would come after the initial RD check.

[Starr]

My hat's on about 50% proc rate from small testing and only recording Evoker's

[Slycer]

I did about 100 tests with 2-4 JAs down and (with one Loaded Deck merit and Commodore Frac) Random Deal restored TWO JAs something like 5-10% of the time. My results aren't statistically significant, but the double restoration happened several times so I can confirm at the very least that it can restore 2 JAs and that it's definitely a low proc rate.

I have no idea if the 2 JA restoration is caused by the interplay between the Loaded Deck merit and the Frac, or by the Frac alone. I did it as COR/RNG using various combinations of Sharpshot, Barrage, Camouflage, and Scavenge, and I additionally tested with a Monk in my party using many various JAs. Neither I nor the monk ever saw restoration of more than 2 JAs. I was using only sub job JAs and the monk was only using main job JAs, and the success rate was higher on the monk, but again, it wasn't statistically significant and might not be the case in general (although I'd bet it is).


Additionally, I did 50 tests each with just one JA down with and without the Commodore Frac equipped and I noticed no significant difference in the success rate (perhaps the same low 5~10% increase in success with one JA down which I couldn't discern given the sample size, I don't really know).

I may do more tests tomorrow but doing several hundred Random Deals next to the moogle in Tavnazian Safehold got pretty boring. Some JP guy also called me a bot, lol. Cuz you know... all those bots that stand by moogles using JAs... yeah

[Nekio]

Um.... POIDH? You'd think that if anyone else had gotten two JAs reset it woulda been all over the forums by now.

[Slycer]

Either that, or people just aren't testing properly?

I'll post some screenshots in a few minutes as I'm on a different PC now so I have to take some new ones. I was really surprised myself that nobody had found out. I'm guessing people like you and I assumed that others would have found out already and so many of them completely ignored trying to test for it.

[Slycer]

SS of restoration of both Phantom Roll and Fold. Timestamps and recast timers should prove that I didn't fudge anything, I can post more cases if you want but one should be sufficient to prove it. You can see there's only ~11 seconds between the first and second shots, and Phantom Roll had 39 seconds until it would be back. Leaving for work in a few minutes so I might not be able to post more until later in the day. The "wears off" effects in the log are from hitting Fold. I'll keep messing around and I'll post any other successes I get if they're different JAs and stuff. I had a lot easier of a time, by the way, restoring 2 JAs from main job (COR) than 2 JAs from sub. In my tests yesterday I was only able to restore 2 JAs from ranger sub once out of many tries (30+), but the Monk who I was partied with for testing was using only main job JAs and was getting two JAs restored more frequently (four times in 20 or so tests I believe). After about 15 tries today with RNG sub I gave up and I just started to use Roll/Snake Eye/Fold from main. After about five tries:

Before...
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w...929_085654.png
and after...
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w...929_085705.png